Concept Rockets

[HafCoJoe]

K one last post here. Unless you don't mind me clogging up room.

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That launcher. Works extremely well.

[OrbitusII]

Good job! It definitely retains the feel of the original. I'll ask you for the per-stage stats once I get around to designing the mod parts.

[ZodiaK]

wasn't there a mod for this? now where's that link...

[OrbitusII]

Could One-Eye Industries be the thing you're looking for?

[Sauron]

Go nuts with the replicas and stuff, guys. I have law school apps to do--so I'm not going to be as active

[HafCoJoe]

Well, you've inspired me to use strange part clipping and odd diameter launchers again. Thanks . I guess I'll post my stock only remakes and copies here every once in a while. Don't worry I'll only be posting remakes of yours and the occasional inspired work.

[OrbitusII]

Well, you've inspired me to use strange part clipping and odd diameter launchers again. Thanks . I guess I'll post my stock only remakes and copies here every once in a while. Don't worry I'll only be posting remakes of yours and the occasional inspired work.

And of course I'll keep working on my part pack. Good luck with your remakes!

[Climberfx]

I love it.

I hoppe we can see all this finished on game!

[Sauron]

This would be the bad guys' slick concept SSTO, Takurua (Sirius) (it's a generation ahead of their other stuff and still on the drawing board). It comes with all the toys. Among other things: control is done exclusively by thrust vectoring and BadS plasma actuators. No moving parts! Thermal protection is a logical extension of the Autahi's witchcraft plus some active cooling (but this one isn't built to withstand lunar re-entries, obviously). It can put approximately 20-40 (not sure exactly yet) tons into LEO. 15x15x30 cargo bay. Carries 4-7 crew in the cockpit and ~50 more if a specialized passenger transport module is used.

It's a waverider that uses two very powerful AYAX-style MHD bypass cycle turbojets to get up to mach 8-9 before switching to a hydrolox rocket(this is instead of a skylon-style precooler). Because the bad guys are NTR-happy maniacs (I imagine they're launching from a large island chain over a large ocean. They've got really minimal range-safety concerns) nuclear LH2 engines are probably being seriously considered instead but shielding would be a big problem. Circularization is done with the OMS. If NTR engines are being used, payload to LEO starts to get even more impressive.

Takurua is launched to ~600mph using a rocket sled. This saves a lot of structural weight and reduces the required wing size.

There might also be MPD-powered active heat shielding for reentry. Not really sure about the technology here

Because of the very limited payload bay size, this design probably wouldn't entirely replace big, reliable HLVs, but (particularly if it's nuclear) Takurua makes an excellent raw-material mover. Delivering 30+ tons to a propelant depot for a fraction of the cost of a conventional rocket means that HLVs can be launched empty. This means large missions may only require one Takero launch. Also, this would probably lead to a slightly more modular design philosophy than the bad guys' earlier monolithic spacecraft.

(Autahi, human, and typical payload module shown for scale)

Edited September 1, 2014 by Sauron

[Krevsin]

There might also be MPD-powered active heat shielding for reentry. Not really sure about the technology here

I've wondered a bit about the heat shielding. There's a relatively simple (if a bit massive) way of doing it. Basically, have the thermal protection be a big heat sink (it's metallic in nature) and run some piping which sprays water onto it and have the resulting steam vented out the back. Yeah, you'd need a fair amount of water, but it's non-ablative (you only need to refill the water tanks) and the amount of water can be lowered significantly if the heat sink is good enough. An extra layer of ceramics on top of the heat sink would also help a fair bit, especially if it's super-nano-carbon-tube-stuff (great thermal insulation properties, better than the Space Shuttle tiles).

[HafCoJoe]

Hmm... related to this phantom by any chance?

Size and hatch makes me think of a star destroyer too...

Edited September 1, 2014 by Avera9eJoe

[Nicholander]

Wow... that's an awesome space plane!

[Sauron]

@Krevsin: That doesn't really work--heavy plus SSTO is always a no (FWW there's a very good reason that Skylon does active cooling with it's LH2 and a thin skin). Essentially, I'm talking about either really impressive (mostly passive) heat shielding (plausible) combined with a better ballistic for reentry (like skylon). Possibly combined with a plasma heat shield. Not sure.

@Avera9geJoe: It's vaguely inspired by Aurora concepts/the SR-72. But the waverider/wedge design is pretty common. There aren't really a lot of options for hypersonic airframes.

[Sauron]

Also, I'm starting on the beginnings of the bad guys' proposed mars mission (it would be a concept for them). This would all be stuff launched using multiple Takurua launches. Shown are the ascent/descent craft ( launched empty in a Takurua, and partially refueled in LEO for Mars EDL and then refueled again on the Martian surface). This transports 4 astronauts. Also shown is the hab lander (inflated) which is also launched empty. This allows a substantial stay. A 2 supply landers using common components would also be used to land more supplies, a collapsible pressurized rover, and a robotic ISRU rover (etc.) One nasty problem is that this mission profile doesn't have a lot of good abort options on the Martian surface if the crew lander lands a long way from the hab or if there's an ISRU issue. But the bad guys are BadS--they accept a lot more risk than NASA might. Also, the deep space component of their mission is pretty safe.

Ideally, the whole mission would be done with electric propulsion of some description--much more weight efficient.

Spitballing, the number of launches would look like so:

Mars Transit Vehicle A:

Crew Lander (1)

Supply Lander (1)

Transit Habitat (1)

Supplies (1)

Propellant (1)

Service and Power Module (1)

Fuel For Ion Engines (1)

Mars Transit Vehicle B would also need 7 launches but would carry a supply lander (with the ISRU kit) and the habitat lander. At a very conservative $500 per pound, launch costs come out to a measly 560 mil (in Bad Guy Money )! As a point of interest, the RL Saturn V cost twice that for one launch (likewise a Takero). It's the cost of one shuttle mission! Hardware would be pricier, but this mission would be quite sustainable for the bad guys. Enough that a base infrastructure would be considered.

Also, the spacecraft themselves are fully reusable. It would only take 5 launches to resupply an assembled ship. Also, ISRU and hab infrastructure may also be reusable. This would be a compelling case for a mars base.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Sauron

[Krevsin]

Ooooh, shiny. If I'm reading this correctly, it's essentially a Mars Direct type mission.

@Krevsin: That doesn't really work--heavy plus SSTO is always a no (FWW there's a very good reason that Skylon does active cooling with it's LH2 and a thin skin). Essentially, I'm talking about either really impressive (mostly passive) heat shielding (plausible) combined with a better ballistic for reentry (like skylon). Possibly combined with a plasma heat shield. Not sure.

I was mostly talking about their ordinary spaceplane (tbh, I kinda got the idea for it from The Rocket Company, a book I'd recommend if you're into designing reusable spacecraft) because I am not partial to SSTOs and do not really know the ins and outs of designing one.

Still, an impressive design.

[Sauron]

It's actually a Mars semi-direct mission (similar to NASA's DRM). Only the lander requres ISRU. There's also rather more orbital assembly involved.

[Sauron]

A bit of a teaser that breaks down the different parts of the bad guys' proposed Mars mission. It's a nuclear-ion (obviously!) ship that's spun along the axis for artificial gravity. The bad guys' mission involves either 1 or 2 of these (a 2-part mission version is shown) depending on the mission plan they decide on. A 1-ship mission would be a short stay, no ISRU mission. The second ship would add the ability for 1 year+ stays on the martian surface and a number of pressurized rovers.

Luckily, the core of the ship is highly reusable so there wouldn't be a call to make lots of them each time.

Also, this type of infrastructure is very conducive to base-building in the long run. Hab landers and ISRU rovers are designed to last for multiple missions.

[Nicholander]

Epic! Can't wait until you're done on that proposed Mars mission!

Also, why is the thing so damn long?!? If it was powered by RTGs, then it'd be fine. But it has solar panels, and unless the long trusses have fuel on them (Which I don't see!), like the Discovery from 2001: A Space Odyssey, then it's pointless.

[Sauron]

Urr... Ion engines are dreadfully power intensive--that's an ~15MW nuclear reactor at the end of the boom (and those are radiators--not solar panels). Also, the whole assembly is spun for artificial gravity.

[meve12]

Urr... Ion engines are dreadfully power intensive--that's an ~15MW nuclear reactor at the end of the boom (and those are radiators--not solar panels). Also, the whole assembly is spun for artificial gravity.

So the length is meant to help with radiation shielding, as well as extra tank space?

Also, wouldn't you rather spin it as a tumbling pigeon? That way you can get away with less Coriolis effect(and you'd have to de-spin it either way to allow docking).

[Sauron]

So the length is meant to help with radiation shielding, as well as extra tank space?

Also, wouldn't you rather spin it as a tumbling pigeon? That way you can get away with less Coriolis effect(and you'd have to de-spin it either way to allow docking).

It is spun tumbling pigeon-style if I'm getting you terminology right (around the COM in blue).

The truss just provides space--no tanks (a few sensors and systems are installed on it but that's really it). Essentially, putting ~500 feet between you and the big nuclear reactor reduces the amount of shielding required and increases the shadow shield's coverage. Also, it makes for better spinning.

Note that that diagram above is to scale--this isn't a huge ship (remember that the trusses are collapsible)

[Sauron]

The crew area is roughed out and almost done.

The ship as a whole:

[Sauron]

Also, since this is a fictional setting, I'm contemplating setting it in a different solar system (since Earth is already not Earth!)--but we'll see about that one.

Also, also: I've decided on MPDTs (instead of gridded ion) for the Mars ship--the thrust is still objectively piddly but with 15 (or more) MW to work with there's enough power generation to justify it on account of the superior ISP and thrust to other options. Additionally, I'm assuming a 40MW reactor. I don't have the specialized calculus knowledge to figure out how a low-thrust trajectory might work, but my napkin-math suggests that it would take 11 days of burning (not including waiting time) to accelerate to 10,000 m/s. The mission time would be substantially less than 1.5 years round trip but without some heavy duty math I couldn't tell you for sure how much less (again, low thrust trajectories).

BTW, does anybody know how lithium is usually stored for MPDTs--I'm not really sure what the tanks should look like?

Edited September 8, 2014 by Sauron

[Nicholander]

Please, DON'T set it in a different solar system, just think of it as some alternative history on Earth.

[meve12]

It is spun tumbling pigeon-style if I'm getting you terminology right (around the COM in blue).

The truss just provides space--no tanks (a few sensors and systems are installed on it but that's really it). Essentially, putting ~500 feet between you and the big nuclear reactor reduces the amount of shielding required and increases the shadow shield's coverage. Also, it makes for better spinning.

Note that that diagram above is to scale--this isn't a huge ship (remember that the trusses are collapsible)

Alright, then.

Not sure how lithium for MPD use is stowed, but since it's melting point is 180 degrees Celsius, I think you can just keep it liquid with the reactor( or even use it as the working fluid!)