Next logical step?

[Colonel_Sanders]

Hello everyone. I have been looking to explore some new planets/moons. I have currently landed and returned from the Mun, Minmus, Ike, Gilly, and Duna, and I am wondering where I should go to next, in terms of a manned landing and return. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Guest]

There's a whole solar system you haven't even touched, just go somewhere. Why do you even need advice, just fly somewhere.

[Colonel_Sanders]

There's a whole solar system you haven't even touched, just go somewhere. Why do you even need advice, just fly somewhere.

That's exactly it, I am new and I want some advice on what planets are easier to get to and come back from.

[Guest]

That's exactly it, I am new and I want some advice on what planets are easier to get to and come back from.

Look them up on the wiki or find a delta-V map online. Better yet, just try going somewhere else. Send out a probe or two if you're feeling cautious or embrace the Kerbal spirit and see what happens.

E: I mean, literally, you've already been to the two easiest planets to get to, everywhere else just takes more fuel and different landers.

E2: Here's some advice, then: If you design a lander that can land and return to orbit from Moho, you can use it on every planet except for Laythe, Eve, and Tylo. Laythe can be done with a spaceplane, Tylo needs a lot of fuel and TWR, and Eve needs even more.

Edited August 11, 2014 by regex

[Pecan]

Scroll down to section 4 in this post for a list of planets and moons in order of their deltaV requirements (excludes aerobraking).

[Colonel_Sanders]

Thanks for the advice. I guess I should stop being such a cautious idiot and actually attempt things that seem more difficult.

[sedativechunk]

Yea, just go for it, it's just a game (although sometimes it feels like more!). Personally I think Dres is a good proving ground for you, though. A moderately far-away planet with no atmosphere to test your abilities at reaching a planet without aerobraking available. It's not too difficult to land on and it's got a pretty cool giant crevis on the planet.

I recommend Jool afterwards. and it's orbiting moons. It's VERY difficult planet to conquer, requiring tons of fuel/resources to travel and leave, especially if you are using life support addons. But Jool is like it's own mini solar system. But Jool is awesome.

[Guest]

I should stop being such a cautious idiot

No one's calling you an idiot. Hell, if some people around here are to be believed you're ahead of the curve because apparently half of the players around here have never left Kerbin's SOI and gone elsewhere. The point we're making is that you've already taken that first step; there's no reason to hold yourself back by looking for the "easiest next thing" because everywhere else is just more of the same as far as the craft are concerned. Just pick some place, build, fly, see what happens.

[Vanamonde]

Why do you even need advice, just fly somewhere.

If he knew where to fly next, he wouldn't need the advice.

Look them up on the wiki or find a delta-V map online.

Or ask your friendly fellow players, some of whom would enjoy chatting about it with you.

I guess I should stop being such a cautious idiot and actually attempt things that seem more difficult.

Or, you could not let the grumps discourage you and feel free to discuss the game you like.

Okay, Dres is not much farther away than Duna, but has no atmosphere to assist you in braking from transit speed. However, Moho has the same problem and is much harder a target to hit because of its speed and orbital inclination. Eeloo is a long trip for which to try to plot the kind of hole-in-one precision you need to achieve an intercept. So probably the next easiest planetary system to visit is Jool and its moons. Both Jool and its moon Laythe have atmospheres you can use to brake, and Jool's SOI is a relatively large target. However, once you get there, you can get bounced around by the crowded moons, so navigating can be quite a trick. Plotting a return to Kerbin from an orbit of a moon is also an added degree of difficulty when you're ready to return. So there's no simple, best answer, but on the whole, I'd suggest Dres, as it is much like a scaled-up version of a trip to Mun.

Good luck.

[Guest]

Or, you could not let the grumps discourage you and feel free to discuss the game you like.

I'm a "grump" and "discouraging" for trying to get another player to set their own goals in a sandbox game and hopefully reinforce their already demonstrated explorative nature? News to me. Maybe I should work on being more flowery so moderators don't accidentally misunderstand my posts...

[Mesons]

"Just flying somewhere" isn't really how orbital mechanics and rocket science works, it really sucks if you run out of fuel trying to pin down an intercept or really at any point in the mission. You can end up spending a lot of time with do-overs after re-engineering if you're starting out and like to play vanilla like I do. I can understand why the advice is desired.

I recommend visiting the Jool system next, partly for what Vanamonde said about it being a large target, partly because it's a good challenge for someone of (what I estimate to be) your skill level, and also because there are a lot of interest and a few relatively easy bodies to handle there. Tylo can obviously be a big challenge, but if you are game, I suggest tugging there a lander that's capable of attaining Kerbin orbit, landing without parachutes, and re-orbiting without refueling. That gives you plenty of breathing room in fuel for imperfect piloting (g at Tylo's surface is 0.8g).

If Jool seems like too much for you, listen to regex after all and Tab through the planets with the info pane open and choose one based on your own criteria.

[Wanderfound]

Useful interplanetary planning resources:

http://ksp.olex.biz

http://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Category:Celestials

Don't mind Regex too much. He has that line under his name for a reason.

[merendel]

Tylo can obviously be a big challenge, but if you are game, I suggest tugging there a lander that's capable of attaining Kerbin orbit, landing without parachutes, and re-orbiting without refueling. That gives you plenty of breathing room in fuel for imperfect piloting (g at Tylo's surface is 0.8g).

.

Thats a tad overkill for a tylo lander. pulling that stunt on kerbin would take 9-10k dv (4.5 each for reaching orbit twice and possibly another 1k for the powered landing) Tylo is closer to 5.5k as a minimum with 7 being comfortably safe. I did it with 6k recently on a decent but not perfect landing and still had a bit of fuel left for docking with a return fuel pod. I'd say a lander that can lift off to kerbin orbit on its own and then go land on minmus and return should be enough as long as the mission is done apolo style with a return/transfer stage that stays in orbit. Droping fuel pods on the way up is fine long as what leaves the pad is whats going to start decent on tylo.

That asside I'd also suggest jool along with the others on the thread. It has the most interesting stuff left to go and see for a relatively easy difficulty level. Dres is basicly Mun in a harder to reach location minus the easter eggs and extra biomes. Theres really not that much to go see there. Moho's somewhat intresting but its very challenging to get to. Eeloo I didnt find all that intresting and its almost as hard to get an intercept with as moho. Jool is definitely where its at with 5 very different targets you can land on with a 6th you can try to land on if you dont like that particular kerbal very much.

[DrMonte]

Low Sol orbit - put a permanent sputnik in ~5000km orbit. Looks grate from this distance...

Bounce around the moons of Jool. Try aerobrake. Highly suggested missions as you will definitely learn something new about maneuvers. Try Laythe world, just because it looks great. Then Pol 'cause it's yellow.

Did I mention that you don't have to travel anywhere? Build a plane, a boat. Bring them to Laythe space base.

Oh my dear EVE I miss you so much. It's so pinktastic place to die. Try Tylo first.

Wan'a try Mun EVA challenge? I think we will try Gilly-Kerbin one day.

[Mesons]

Thats a tad overkill for a tylo lander. pulling that stunt on kerbin would take 9-10k dv (4.5 each for reaching orbit twice and possibly another 1k for the powered landing) Tylo is closer to 5.5k as a minimum with 7 being comfortably safe. I did it with 6k recently on a decent but not perfect landing and still had a bit of fuel left for docking with a return fuel pod.

If you aren't experienced enough to know where you want to go next, it may be hard to get your dV range right without informational mods. I don't use any, so that was how I engineered a Tylo mission and it worked fine. In my opinion, the hardest part about applying a Minmus-and-return lander to a Tylo mission is that you need a much higher TWR to attain orbit around Tylo than you do from Minmus. My strategy took out a lot of the guesswork--I knew that if my vessel could get to orbit (or nearly there), land, and get to orbit again, I was definitely safe and not going to have to do the mission over with a beefier lander. A lot of people complain about Tylo being difficult but it seems to me it's all in the engineering.

[Red Iron Crown]

I suggest going to the Jool. It's a great place to play with aerobraking, gravity assists and moon-moon transfers, there are a bunch of bodies to land on ranging from almost too easy (Pol) to almost too hard (Tylo), there's air on Laythe to play with jet-powered spaceplanes, and the system has some of the best views in the game (watching Jool rise from orbit around one of its moons is awe-inspiring).

[cantab]

The Joolian system is the obvious choice. Of its moons: Laythe demands you either land accurately or can take off from water, Vall should be fairly straightforward, Tylo's the big challenge, Bop's a nuisance to reach but straightforward to land on, Pol's fairly straightforward.

As for less obvious destinations: Dres and Eeloo are relatively easy but watch for the inclination for the former. Moho is infamous for causing trouble. If you haven't visited an asteroid yet that can be good to do.

Edited August 11, 2014 by cantab

[merendel]

If you aren't experienced enough to know where you want to go next, it may be hard to get your dV range right without informational mods. I don't use any, so that was how I engineered a Tylo mission and it worked fine. In my opinion, the hardest part about applying a Minmus-and-return lander to a Tylo mission is that you need a much higher TWR to attain orbit around Tylo than you do from Minmus. My strategy took out a lot of the guesswork--I knew that if my vessel could get to orbit (or nearly there), land, and get to orbit again, I was definitely safe and not going to have to do the mission over with a beefier lander. A lot of people complain about Tylo being difficult but it seems to me it's all in the engineering.

the point of Minmus+return was only to add a known amount of dV to the mission to bring it up to requirements. TWR would already be proven due to the craft neading to attain orbit from kerbin first. 4500 to reach orbit(with plenty of twr) ~1300 to reach and land on minmus, another 3-400 to get home from there. bit over 6k dv in total which is plenty. A mun test instead of minmus would add more dV if they wanted a larger margin, probably up into the 7.5k dV range without resorting to the 10k behemoth it would take to reach orbit twice from kerbin. Both our methods are trying to do the same thing, test dV to ensure its high enough without resorting to mods, yours is just going above and beyond by quite a bit

[Mesons]

Both our methods are trying to do the same thing, test dV to ensure its high enough without resorting to mods, yours is just going above and beyond by quite a bit

True, but you need to know dV requirements for Tylo ahead of time to use your method--I only used that Tylo has 0.8g at its surface. The engineering can be a fun part of the mission as well. You are right about the TWR being taken care of by launching, landing, and returning the same craft.

At any rate, there is plenty of suggestions here to help Colonel_Sanders deciede where next to bring his interplanetary success!

[merendel]

ahh I just assumed that if someone had gone to the trouble of finding out enough about tylo to know the gravity they'd have also looked up some dV charts as reference. Even looking at the planet stats on the wiki can give you a prety good guesstimate for the airless bodies, just take the escape velocity and double it and you have a prety good shot at landing and takeing off agian with a bit of room to spare if you make an efficient landing. does not work for atmospheres as chutes and drag change alot for decent/accent.

[Hannu]

There is not straightforward logical steps. Everything depends on what you want to do. If you want easy targets, try Eeloo or Dres. They are small and atmosphereless and their dv requirements are moderate.

Moho is also quite small, but it needs much interplanetary dv and very accurate timings and burns. Even very small errors, seconds or single m/s, may cost 1000 m/s more than optimal. Beware also inaccuracies in orbit calculations, it is good idea to check orbit several times during flight (at least in 0.23, when I last made Moho trip, but as far as I know, they have not updated physics after that).

Jool's moons are always interesting targets. They have very different properties. You can land nearly gravityless Pol. Vall is same type than Mun, but needs somewhat more dv. Laythe's atmosphere sets very special needs, descending is easy but ascent needs about 3500 m/s. Tylo needs about 3500 m/s to land and 3000 m/s to ascend, very heavy thrust and correct timings during descend and is clearly most demanding place in Jool's system.

Then, there is only one place left. The ultimate challenge. Eve. Easy to land and very comfort place to drive rovers, but ascent stage must have enormous thrust and dv capabilities.

As you see, different bodies need different ships and you have to decide if you want to learn atmospheric tricks, high thrust landers for heavy targets or accurate orbital adjustments for Moho.

[Hannu]

Even looking at the planet stats on the wiki can give you a prety good guesstimate for the airless bodies, just take the escape velocity and double it and you have a prety good shot at landing and takeing off agian with a bit of room to spare if you make an efficient landing.

Doubling the escape velocity is very conservative rule. It works on smaller bodies and novice players, but Tylo's escape velocity is 3100 m/s. 6200 m/s needs a huge two stage descent stage. Mechjeb uses about 3400-3500 m/s to land to Tylo from about 200 km orbit and I have done it by hand with about 3800 m/s. I have used rule, that descent from relatively low orbit needs one escape velocity or little more (especially Tylo, where limited thrust is an issue too). Ascent can be done with little less dv, but if you take one escape velocity, you have a reserve to make a little plane change to rendezvous mother ship.