[0.24.2] Snacks! A simplistic approach to life support

[tgruetzm]

I've been thinking a bit lately about life support mods. I've tried them before and never really found them extremely enjoyable. I like the idea in principle, but the dynamic of how it works and a slew of extra parts that just don't fit well into my spacecraft's esthetic always made me move away from using them.

My plan is a simplistic approach to the problem. Here are my overall design goals:

-Snacks are a resource that kerbals consume at a fixed rate.

-Snacks would not be stored in new parts, but each crewable module would be able to carry a certain amount of snacks based on it's crew capacity. Therefore inter-planetary craft would need extra space in order to sustain their Kerbal's snack requirements. Snack capacity should be substantially higher when crew are not present. My idea is that an uncrewed hitchhiker(or other vessel's with spare capacity) would store substantially more snacks than a crewed one. Hitchhikers would be the "cargo" vessel of choice to replenish snacks.

-Snacks are not entirely required. Kerbals without snacks simply are grumpy and do not perform as efficiently. Kerbals will not die from being without snacks.

Functionality I'm considering adding:

1. Reduced science transmission and recovery, reduced contract completion science/reputation/funds.

2. Accrued reputation slowly decreases based on the number of Kerbals without snacks.

3. The Kerbals mutiny and randomly toggle ship features off in an attempt to get you to replenish the snacks.

4. Kerbals have reduced(slowed) maneuverability on EVA to simulate their protest.

3. Contracts are generated for vessels that are running low on snacks. Bonus points if you get to them before they run out!

Snacks v0.1 Alpha

-Snacks are added as a resource to every moudle that can carry crew 50 snacks for each Kerpacity.

-Snack capacity of non-command modules is 200 snacks for each Kerpacity. Some modules may have more or less depending on built in snack compartments, or lack of space!

-Kerbals consume about 1/2 snack per day(Kerbin day). However since snacks are randomly consumed through out the day(about twice a day), you cannot predicte with certainty how many will be required for a given mission. There are a few extra twists here as well. Some Kerbals may sneak an extra snack at snack time, others may forget to eat if their stupidity is too high.

-If you deprive a Kerbal of snacks, the next time he attempts to eat snacks, your reputation will go down by 1 point. Each subsequent time the Kerbal is deprived your reputation decreases.

I haven't ran into any serious issues thus far. I've tested on my regular save with 15 mods and it plays well together. The only caveat is module manager appears to load new resources to saved vessels when the vessel is loaded. So if you start to get messages that Kerbals are without snacks, load the vessel and they will start eating their supply(the debug log lists which vessel is without snacks). I'll try and get this fixed shortly.

https://github.com/tgruetzm/Snacks/releases

There's still lots of work to do. I'd like to add better visibility into snack supply across the solar system, add additional penalties, add contracts for resupplying snacks once the supply gets low.

Edited August 16, 2014 by tgruetzm
v0.1 alpha

[RoverDude]

Interesting idea, look forward to seeing what you come up with.

[dbmorpher]

Maybe decreased control?

Throttle doesn't work as well, rcs is fires weird, venting of resources.

[kStrout]

It would also be cool if you could make kerbals become grumpy when cooped up in small capsules for long periods of time. (IE you wouldn't be able to preform a manned mission to Jool in a mk 1 command pod without your kerbal going on strike.)

[schoff123]

death is a good restriction, IMHO. But i like the idea of having reduced science collection, because long-haul missions need to be as "profitable" as possible

[tgruetzm]

Maybe decreased control?

Throttle doesn't work as well, rcs is fires weird, venting of resources.

I briefly considered something like this. My argument against it is would a grumpy Kerbal do that? I suppose maybe they are hallucinating after not eating snacks for so long.

It would also be cool if you could make kerbals become grumpy when cooped up in small capsules for long periods of time. (IE you wouldn't be able to preform a manned mission to Jool in a mk 1 command pod without your kerbal going on strike.)

This is an interesting thought, I like it. It definitely fits with my goals.

[dbmorpher]

I briefly considered something like this. My argument against it is would a grumpy Kerbal do that? I suppose maybe they are hallucinating after not eating snacks for so long.

I see a grumpy kerbal as an unresponsive toddler.

[used2use]

You could give them the gift of foresight - if time to apoapsis reaches years, they could switch to manual, turn around and retroburn in a last attempt to save themselves.

[madlemur]

I see a grumpy kerbal as an unresponsive toddler.

Which flavor? Tantruming toddler, or pouty toddler? And when do they get to "sullen teenager" stage?

[TheKutKu]

Awesome idea

I think that a grumpy kerbal can't control a vessel, can't eva and can't do a report

[passinglurker]

I think the simplest thing to do is have hungry kerbals just cost the players reputation at a fixed rate. at the very least it would seem the simplest to implement but I'm no coder

[tgruetzm]

I think the simplest thing to do is have hungry kerbals just cost the players reputation at a fixed rate. at the very least it would seem the simplest to implement but I'm no coder

Great idea. I actually was just in the process of adding this to the initial description. For a first pass at restrictions I think that it's a great idea. With reputation decreasing you wouldn't want to leave Kerbals hungry for long, yet it's not going to hurt you too much as long as you correct the situation. I only wish reputation had a bit more meaning, but hopefully that will come with .25!

[passinglurker]

Great idea. I actually was just in the process of adding this to the initial description. For a first pass at restrictions I think that it's a great idea. With reputation decreasing you wouldn't want to leave Kerbals hungry for long, yet it's not going to hurt you too much as long as you correct the situation.

yup and it will lead to fun situation where you decide between taking the time to resupply or cutting your losses and crashing the kerbal into something. stranded contract kerbals shouldn't count though or at least should spawn with a supply of snacks relative to how far away they are

[tgruetzm]

yup and it will lead to fun situation where you decide between taking the time to resupply or cutting your losses and crashing the kerbal into something. stranded contract kerbals shouldn't count though or at least should spawn with a supply of snacks relative to how far away they are

This is exactly why I like the idea of not killing Kerbals when you run out. With typical life support when you run out the Kerbals are dead. End Mission. With snacks you are penalized until you either resupply or take a more drastic approach and kill them... but that has it's own repercussions.

[problemecium]

Fir increased simplicity and unforgivingness, perhaps Kerbals deprived of snacks simply don't count as crew to make things controllable? Then you'll either need a probe core to control the ship or have to replenish the snacks.

Otherwise I like it. Life support modes these days are generally too complicated for me.

[White Owl]

Is it possible to change Kerbal stats on the fly? Like adjust bravery, stupidity, and BadS up and down relative to the supply of snacks? I think that would be better than directly altering control of the vehicle.

(Oh, and I'd love an option to rename the consumable(s). My Kerbals have a long tradition of consuming sandwiches and Mountain Dew.)

[Gristle]

I've been thinking a bit lately about life support mods. I've tried them before and never really found them extremely enjoyable. I like the idea in principle, but the dynamic of how it works and a slew of extra parts that just don't fit well into my spacecraft's esthetic always made me move away from using them....

Agree - please continue with development on this.

[tgruetzm]

Is it possible to change Kerbal stats on the fly? Like adjust bravery, stupidity, and BadS up and down relative to the supply of snacks? I think that would be better than directly altering control of the vehicle.

(Oh, and I'd love an option to rename the consumable(s). My Kerbals have a long tradition of consuming sandwiches and Mountain Dew.)

Ideally I'd love to have this affect things like Kerbal stats. Since the stats don't really mean anything though, I don't know how much value there is to it.

[White Owl]

The value would be that the Kerbals' individual behaviors - the emotions they display down in the corner - would change with the supply of snacks. For entertainment value, nothing more.

[tgruetzm]

I see. I wasn't actually aware that it actually changed their behavior. I'll have to pay attention to that, the next time I have a stupid Kerbal.

[Arsonide]

I've been thinking a bit lately about life support mods. I've tried them before and never really found them extremely enjoyable. I like the idea in principle, but the dynamic of how it works and a slew of extra parts that just don't fit well into my spacecraft's esthetic always made me move away from using them.

My plan is a simplistic approach to the problem. Here are my design goals:

-Snacks are a resource that kerbals consume at a fixed rate.

-Snacks would not be stored in new parts, but each crewable module would be able to carry a certain amount of snacks based on it's crew capacity. Therefore inter-planetary craft would need extra space in order to sustain their Kerbal's snack requirements.

-Snacks are not entirely required. Kerbals without snacks simply are grumpy and do not perform as efficiently.

-Grumpy Kerbal restrictions: reduced science transmission and recovery, reduced contract completion science/reputation/funds.

-Accrued reputation slowly decreases based on the number of Kerbals without snacks.

What else would be a good restriction? I'm looking for things that would be annoying to be without, but also Kerbals shouldn't die if they run out.

I appreciate any feedback/thoughts/improvements before I start work on this.

Thanks!

This is a fantastic idea, and was something I was thinking about as well. I'm glad that more people are considering a more basic life support mod. Please develop this!

[Wanderfound]

How about grumpy Kerbals start drinking their fuel supplies instead?

[Monkthespy]

I see. I wasn't actually aware that it actually changed their behavior. I'll have to pay attention to that, the next time I have a stupid Kerbal.

As far as I can remember, stupidity makes Kerbals laugh in the face of danger. They're too stupid too realize they shouldn't be on that rocket that was quickly built in about 5 min- oh and he is dead. Courage is a bit odd, as far as I can tell courage affects how happy they in general, but doesn't affect the fear of rockets. It's really weird. The KSP wiki isn't telling me much either. Kerbals can also get a badass tag, which Jeb has. It overrides everything and just makes kerbals just happy in the face of certain death. You know, when you made Jeb test a rocket that used an insanely long i beam to stop velocity when he hit the ground.

[problemecium]

I remember reading somewhere that courage affected how fast they "recovered" from the shocked expression they get when something explodes.

It might also be what makes some Kerbals scream their heads off when they're just sitting peacefully in my Mun Station while others behave rationally.

[Norcalplanner]

I like where this is going, especially with the hit to reputation.

As a way of slowly making the kerbals less responsive, how about instituting a power drain on the ship's electrical system? Perhaps representing the Kerbals trying desperately to microwave anything remotely edible in the capsule? The drain could increase over time, ultimately becoming so large that the ship can't do some meaningful things, like transmit science.