Kerbodyne SSTO Division: Omnibus Thread

[Wanderfound]

So I take it then that you missed the part that said the Velociraptor 2 is not as fast in the atmosphere as the 1? Cause I took that to clearly mean you can't pull up and climb as fast.

That is partly my fault. Because I made the Velociraptor II as a quick modification after you said the first was a bit tricky to handle, I didn't bother giving it the full "how to fly" writeup that I usually do.

[Wanderfound]

Anyone feel like running back-to-back test flights of Scattershot and Benchmark and telling me which you prefer and why?

I'd also be keen to hear feedback on the Epinephrine. Quite proud of that one.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

BTW folks, I'd be really happy to see more entries in the speed challenge, particularly with the Benchmark (or Goblin; use whatever planes you like from here, or bring your own). Stock and FAR/NEAR both welcome. Even if you can't beat the posted times, try to see what's the best you can do and let us know. A bunch of ascent runs with different profiles is a really good way of sharpening your skills.

Consider it my designer's fee.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90354-Spaceplane-speed-challenge-shortest-elapsed-time-from-runway-to-orbit

Edited August 22, 2014 by Wanderfound

[goldenpsp]

Anyone feel like running back-to-back test flights of Scattershot and Benchmark and telling me which you prefer and why?

I'd also be keen to hear feedback on the Epinephrine. Quite proud of that one.

epinephrine flies fine under NEAR.

[Wanderfound]

Getting into seismic research? Got an old space station that you don't want any more, but can't deorbit because its batteries are dead and it lost its solar panels in that unfortunate incident involving the Fast Crew Transport System and the exhaustion of your keyboard batteries? Need to clean up some random debris lying around KSC?

You need a Kerbodyne Impactor.

Eight RT10's help power a rapid launch, while the quad LV-45 main engine provides lengthy cruise range. Line up your target, separate the impactor, light the final boost stage and we promise that your problem will go away.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/voklzl20o7m5azc/Kerbodyne%20Impactor.craft?dl=0

Requires the NRAP mod.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/76231-0-24-x-Kerbal-NRAP-Procedural-test-weights!-v1-5-0-1-03-08-14

Edited August 23, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Volcanix]

Found some time to test a couple of planes from you now, so let's begin.

I installed FAR. Just for info. And consider me being a noob flying spaceplanes, even if I've got a lot of experience in flight sim X^^

I'm sorry that I don't have any screenshots, but I was to concentrated to actually flying the planes.

I tested the Kerbodyne Benchmark first.

The ascent went pretty well, I used the RAPIERs during ascent.

I got it to 30km height with 1.500m/s speed and then switched the mode of the RAPIERs.

I burned until I got an apoapsis of 77km, and then circularized the orbit.

I ended up with about half and a bit of fuel left. It's a great plane

After about three quarters of an orbit I burned to fly back to the KSC (I tried my first SSTO landing )

I overestimated the aerobraking. I overestimated it A LOT. It seems like FAR reduces the drag really much..

I came in at the KSC... at 20km height. Diving down wasn't an option, so I needed something else. I tried to turn around with little maneuvers, no success. Harder maneuvers, aerodynamic failure... So I decided to fly over the ocean and land at the next "continent".. and landed there. It was a bit hard because the surface was a bit tilted to left, but it worked.

I'm sorry but I haven't got more time to play KSP now <.< but I'll edit or post something new soon.

Conclusion: The Kerbodyne Benchmark flies pretty well, I think the wheels could be placed a with a little bit more space between them to prevent tilting over when landing on difficult surfaces. The engines are pretty well but one more intake would maybe be a good idea for gaining more speed in higher.. heights. But the plane is a lot of fun to fly, for beginners it's only important to know that you can glide for AGES with FAR installed and you have to watch out for aerodynamic failures. The flight assistance systems are kinda helpful, especially the AoA one.. would you mind sharing your settings of your FAS?

[Wanderfound]

Found some time to test a couple of planes from you now, so let's begin.

I installed FAR. Just for info. And consider me being a noob flying spaceplanes, even if I've got a lot of experience in flight sim X^^

I'm sorry that I don't have any screenshots, but I was to concentrated to actually flying the planes.

I tested the Kerbodyne Benchmark first.

The ascent went pretty well, I used the RAPIERs during ascent.

I got it to 30km height with 1.500m/s speed and then switched the mode of the RAPIERs.

I burned until I got an apoapsis of 77km, and then circularized the orbit.

I ended up with about half and a bit of fuel left. It's a great plane

After about three quarters of an orbit I burned to fly back to the KSC (I tried my first SSTO landing )

I overestimated the aerobraking. I overestimated it A LOT. It seems like FAR reduces the drag really much..

I came in at the KSC... at 20km height. Diving down wasn't an option, so I needed something else. I tried to turn around with little maneuvers, no success. Harder maneuvers, aerodynamic failure... So I decided to fly over the ocean and land at the next "continent".. and landed there. It was a bit hard because the surface was a bit tilted to left, but it worked.

As you found out, while 20km is an okay braking height, it still takes quite a while to slow down a streamlined plane. And vigorous manoeuvres at high Mach numbers just aren't an option. Aim well short of KSC, try to get down to 20,000m quickly and level off there until you're below Mach 2. If you're feeling daring, you can push considerably lower, but you'll blow up a few planes as you learn the limits. The lower you go the faster you slow, though.

Landing a hypersonic spaceplane on a sloping paddock is supposed to be hard. Learn to hit the runway.

I'm sorry but I haven't got more time to play KSP now <.< but I'll edit or post something new soon.

Conclusion: The Kerbodyne Benchmark flies pretty well, I think the wheels could be placed a with a little bit more space between them to prevent tilting over when landing on difficult surfaces. The engines are pretty well but one more intake would maybe be a good idea for gaining more speed in higher.. heights. But the plane is a lot of fun to fly, for beginners it's only important to know that you can glide for AGES with FAR installed and you have to watch out for aerodynamic failures. The flight assistance systems are kinda helpful, especially the AoA one.. would you mind sharing your settings of your FAS?

I don't normally use them much. My planes are usually stable enough that SAS is sufficient unless things are getting so extreme that the FAS toggles won't do the job either. And I find that when they get overwhelmed, they often make the situation worse by unsettling the plane. DCA is useful on some of the crazier ships at high speed, though.

Traditionally what I would use for reentry and long-haul flights when I was lazy was the Surface mode on Mechjeb's Smart A.S.S.

Set Heading to 90, Roll to 0, Pitch to 4, etc. etc. Just a basic 3-axis autopilot, and also handy for setting a bearing and then turning it off. You still need to be ready to take control if things get lively because it's not as good as a real pilot, but it's a major chore-saver when you want to just keep something level while you're slowly bleeding off bulk reentry speed under time acceleration. When it's working, you can fly a good plane to orbit by doing nothing but changing the pitch settings when appropriate.

However, ever since the last update Smart A.S.S. has been useless for planes, because it isn't accounting for gimballing roll. So, I've been doing most everything manual lately. The Smart A.S.S. issue should be sorted in a week or so, though.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

Quite fond of my new one; hopefully they'll fix it so you can pre-load command chairs in the SPH soon.

NEW! IMPROVED!

Kerbodyne Migration

Presenting the new release from the Kerbodyne SSTO Division’s Kerbal Transportation Solutions range: the Kerbodyne Migration. Capable of transporting twenty six Kerbals (two crew, four first class passengers, eight business class passengers and twelve economy passengers) in style, speed and comfort (well, in the first class compartment, anyway).

Half a dozen quick, inexpensive trips to the Mun and back and you won't just have a Munar base; you'll have a Munar town. Also available in conversions for use as an infantry transport, paratroop intruder, medium bomber, aerial command and control centre, combined crew/cargo delivery vessel, flexible research explorer or large executive jet.

Kerbodyne. Quality you can fly.

* Action group 1 toggles Aerospikes.

* Action group 2 toggles inner RAPIERs.

* Action group 3 toggles outer RAPIERs.

* Action group 4 toggles RAPIER mode.

* Action group 6 toggles intakes.

* Action group 7 toggles boarding mode.

* Action group 8 toggles docking mode.

* Action group 9 triggers scientific instruments.

* Action group 10 toggles Vernors. Used for low-grav VTOL and emergency recovery. Keep toggled off at other times.

* Conventional RCS remains for your docking needs.

* Providing less legroom in economy class could substantially enhance the carrying capacity.

* Hopefully they'll soon fix the bug that prevents you from loading command chairs with Kerbals in the SPH. In the meantime, walk.

Part Count: 200

Wet mass: 47.947 t

Dry mass: 26.142 t

Price: from √151,496

* Also available: Wanderfound's Custom Edition. Features Mechjeb Flight Instrumentation, TAC-LS supplies and Extended Trim functionality: action group 5 sets trim to current inputs. https://www.dropbox.com/s/gvms9evo7vjtckg/Kerbodyne%20Migration%20Custom%20Comfy.craft?dl=0

Also requires Shimmy's Throne and Kerbpaint for aesthetics.

If you're willing to use such tactics, you can clip infinite life support supplies into the forward bay without using the debug menu. Kinda defeats the point of TAC-LS, though.

The flying instructions are so simple that they could fit on one of Jebediah’s post-it notes.

1. Take off.

2. Set pitch to 20°.

3. Go to space.

Don’t turn on the Aerospikes until the oxygen runs out. Save the Vernors for when you need them: spin recovery and low-grav VTOL landings.

Appreciates attention to roll just after takeoff, but becomes completely stable once up to speed.

110kN of precisely balanced low-grav VTOL capability.

Economy Class.

Switching to docking mode.

Spoilers for descent and landing.

Easy take off.

Simple ascent profile (profile showing here slightly lower than norm for flight testing purposes. 20° recommended for normal use).

Perfect transonic stability. Hands-off piloting with SAS alone after getting up to minimum flight speed.

Enough power for a horizontal ascent: note the low angle of attack and lack of control surface activity.

Accelerates rapidly.

Outer engines shut down to extend air-breathing capability.

Switching to closed-cycle propulsion. Aerospikes activated.

Finally start to see some heating effects. Exceptionally smooth aerodynamics leave the Kerbodyne Migration immune to speeds that would tear lesser craft to shreds.

Getting quite warm now.

Whoops.

(note: shock heating damage inflicted as a deliberate flight testing procedure. Will not occur if customers follow a sane 20° flightpath as instructed. Kerbodyne takes no responsibility for customer losses while flying above Mach 7 in the lower atmosphere)

Still flies perfectly stably.

There go the other ones.

(note: both losses due to temperature, not aerodynamic failure. The Kerbodyne Migration airframe is perfectly solid unless intentionally abused)

Still good.

Mach 8, let’s throttle off and see how we’re doing.

Not bad.

I wonder what will happen if we hit the gas again?

Out of gas, maybe the RCS will work.

And that’s it, starting to slow down.

Oops.

I wonder how much RCS we have left?

Requires SP+ and FAR/NEAR. Obviously untroubled by Deadly Reentry. Combines exceptionally well with Shimmy's Throne: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66220-Bond-Aerotech-Shimmy-s-Throne-1-3-1-F100-jet-engine-Updated-15-AUG-14

Craft file available from https://www.dropbox.com/s/gpwx7x5lyu9yr06/Kerbodyne%20Migration.craft?dl=0

Edited August 26, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

I'm not releasing it to the public yet, but just as a teaser: this is what I'm planning on taking to Minmus for the Ice Racing Challenge.

[Wanderfound]

Also on the way:

[Wanderfound]

Kerbodyne Porklifter

The name says it all.

A sleek, stylish, high-tech vertical launch SSTO. Powered by a stunning array of cutting edge engine technology, the Kerbodyne Porklifter proves that even heavy lift vertical rockets can be functional, economical and elegant.

Basic model configured as a bulk fuel tanker and light cargo lifter; conversions along the full range from pure tanker to maximum bulk cargo available. In default configuration, able to reach a 75 x 75km orbit with over 2,800 units of oxidiser remaining in the tanks.

Engines spooling up.

Takeoff!

Surprisingly maneouvrable for something with basically no wings.

Slow down gently...

...then quickly.

With a nearly-full fuel load, too.

Rapid recovery is recommended after landing, however.

Notice the sort of ascent profile I'm using? Toggle and switch, save the oxidiser for when you need it. Very sleek aerodynamics, highly tolerant of shock heating. Go nuts.

Requires Spaceplane Plus and FAR/NEAR. Craft file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/aaggb6aqd8u4la6/Kerbodyne%20Porklifter.craft?dl=0

Teentsy amount of cosmetic part clipping in the base.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Red Iron Crown]

Is the Porklifter recoverable?

[Wanderfound]

Is the Porklifter recoverable?

100%. So long as you don't try to land it on a slope.

Flies well enough that even Mechjeb's ascent guidance can get it to orbit. It'll be much more fuel efficient if piloted properly, though.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

Ooh...I wonder if I can park a Porklifter on the ice for the Minmus races. A pair of them would make a great finish line.

[Jovus]

I notice you have managed, in several (possibly all applicable) planes to put the cargo bay behind at least one fuel tank. How did you get fuel to flow to the engines after doing so? Do the radial-mounted engines share flow from the central tank, or...?

[Roflcopterkklol]

I notice you have managed, in several (possibly all applicable) planes to put the cargo bay behind at least one fuel tank. How did you get fuel to flow to the engines after doing so? Do the radial-mounted engines share flow from the central tank, or...?

Put a fuel line running through the internals of the plane

[Red Iron Crown]

The cargo bays are crossfeed enabled, fuel should flow through them as if it was another tank there.

[Wanderfound]

Cargo bays are indeed crossfeed enabled, although you could get around that if you had to. Oscar B's make great fuel junction boxes, and the little black and white nosecones fit them perfectly.

My planes are usually built with the fuel load spread around CoM in all directions; this is how I keep the CoM/dCoM divergence below 1m. If you're doing that, you don't want any engines running dry while there is fuel available and you don't want the front tanks (or rear, although distance from CoM is an effect multiplier here) draining first and messing up your balance. Better to shift weight forwards instead of back, but best not to shift at all.

I usually have lines running from lateral tanks to the core, then lines from the core to the lateral engines. The lateral -> core lines get placed forwards, so that lateral-rear drains first. If there's a lot of fuel up front, I may lock off a front tank with right-click tweakables. This stops it from draining before I want and lets me claim that my planes have a reserve tank.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Volcanix]

Kerbodyne Porklifter

and other stuff that I snipped out.

Thats... amazing

How much tons of cargo can it carry into LKO?

[Wanderfound]

Thats... amazing

How much tons of cargo can it carry into LKO?

Haven't tested it much, really. I was setting up to refuel my Minmus iceracer in my Sandbox game when I remembered that all of my orbital refuelling stations are in my Career game. So I needed an orbital fuel station in a hurry.

I'd seen a couple of other people doing creative vertical things with SP+ parts, so I thought I'd give it a try. Threw that together and it flew fine as soon as I added the launch clamps; before that it was lifting off before it had enough thrust to self-stabilise.

I gave it a quick run around the paddock and then let Mechjeb put it into orbit; just tweaked the ascent profile to flatten it a bit. The limiting factor on its lifting capacity is probably piloting rather than anything mechanical; it will get increasingly harder to manage as the weight goes up.

Stick an NRAP in the cargo bay and see what she'll do. May need careful handling on descent; she can take a lot of heat, but you need to wash off most of the speed before you pop the first set of parachutes.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

Incidentally, if you got it up to maximum air-breathing speed at about 25,000m and then held the nose down to stay in atmosphere while you bled the oxidiser tanks dry, I wouldn't even want to guess what sort of Mach numbers you'd crank up. Kerbin escape velocity is a certainty, Kerbol escape velocity seems frighteningly plausible.

Ooh, that's a challenge idea...take one Porklifter and, without leaving the atmosphere at any time, see who can have it at the highest altitude at the time that it detonates completely from shock heating. Either that, or lowest altitude when it runs out of fuel, without any throttling off regardless of engine overheating.

[Wanderfound]

Warning re: Porklifter: docking two SP+ inline ports together can be done, but it's very fiddly. It may be worth changing the top intake for a shielded docking port to make it easier.

[Virindi]

Kerbodyne Velociraptor: light cargo express SSTO for Spaceplane Plus and FAR

Like the idea of SSTO cargo spaceplanes, but can't be bothered waiting around for them to get up to speed? Have we got the plane for you...

This thing is ridiculously fast. It can go supersonic while in a vertical climb and reach orbit with tanks better than half full. Treat the throttle with caution; although it has enough thrust to reach crazy high Mach numbers at sea level, you'll shatter the airframe if you crank it up too much below 10,000m. Climb vertically until the atmosphere thins, level off while you take it to 30,000m and flick the Vernors on to enhance stability during the oxidising burn

Check the action groups and switch off the Vernors while docking. The Vernor thrust should be sufficient for VTOL landings on the Mun or Minmus.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3u2omnejrw...tor%20ST.craft

The first link here is broken.

[Volcanix]

The first link here is broken.

He removed it because there is the new version, I think he has said something like this somewhere. Can't find it now, sorry.

[Wanderfound]

The first link here is broken.

Whoops, sorry: try https://www.dropbox.com/s/3u2omnejrwstcma/Kerbodyne%20Velociraptor%20ST.craft?dl=0

Original post now updated; both ​Velociraptor and Velociraptor II ​still available.

The Velociraptor II is a lot more sensible and plenty fast enough, but the original is twice as quick at low altitude and will get you to orbit sooner if you can avoid blowing it up with rough piloting.

Roughly speaking:

Velociraptor I: Dodge Viper

Velociraptor II: BMW M5

Edited August 28, 2014 by Wanderfound