[0.24.2] Interstellar Lite - Tweakscale Integration [v0.12.3][Sept 7]

[ScallopPotato]

Yay for interstellar updating! But I don't like having the flat radiators being removed. I found them to be more practical and aerodynamic than the huge radiators. Most of my larger ships in Interstellar use the flat radiators.

[Mr Shifty]

Wow, thanks Wave; great update!

[WafflesToo]

Yay! Interstellar is back! I like the idea of making most of the parts size-tweakable (really makes it easier to find stuff in the VAB/ SPH). I will definately have to grab this and take it for a spin later on.

...now if I can only get StarSystems to work for me

[undercoveryankee]

The only nitpick i can find so far is that i dont think the Antimatter Storage Tank and Antimatter Collector should be seperated into 2 different research nodes. Giving one without the other is like giving someone a car but no fuel or fuel but no car imo.

I seem to recall that the tech tree placement of the AM bottle was a design decision because it was impossible to predict whether you would get the collector or the reactor first. So a container is placed in a node that you're basically guaranteed to have by the time you get either.

And you should be able to fill an AM bottle in the VAB by right-clicking if you don't have the collector yet.

I thought research/ science mode did not work in this version of Interstellar anyway. Does it work with research/science? Something about the tree not loading properly?

TreeLoader doesn't offer to apply a tech tree unless you're in Career mode, which in 0.24 is the mode with contracts and funds. Even in Career mode, there are a few glitches with trees that have a lot more nodes than stock and with installing trees from the online repository. It will at least successfully apply the Interstellar tree if you copy Interstellar's tree.cfg into a Career save.

[Torminator]

I am having three bugs at the moment. First is that when I mouse over some of the tweakable items in the parts catalogue, they start blinking rapidly and the preview model expands rapidly off the screen. The ones that do it for me specifically are Antimatter initiated reactor, antimatter reactor, fission reactor, fusion reactor, particle bed fission reactor, deployable microwave array, microwave beamed receiver, inline refinery, and the fixed size microwave transceiver.

Second is that the deployable radiator fins dont have a right click menu for deployment, or even the option in action group editor for deployment. I don't know what was driving the animation module before, so I am not really sure what broke there. after seeing that its deployable part was broken, I tested the microwave deployable phased array and the microwave receiver and encountered the same problem, as well as the science lab and the magnetometer. In short, every thing that can deploy is broken when it comes to deployment. Oddly enough, this excludes the radial warp engines.

Lastly is that the VAB thermal helper is broken. It has a button in the toolbar, but it does not pop up a screen at all

I'm having these same problems.

[Meltafire]

First post is in need of pictures.

[undercoveryankee]

I am having three bugs at the moment. First is that when I mouse over some of the tweakable items in the parts catalogue, they start blinking rapidly and the preview model expands rapidly off the screen. The ones that do it for me specifically are Antimatter initiated reactor, antimatter reactor, fission reactor, fusion reactor, particle bed fission reactor, deployable microwave array, microwave beamed receiver, inline refinery, and the fixed size microwave transceiver.

Second is that the deployable radiator fins dont have a right click menu for deployment, or even the option in action group editor for deployment. I don't know what was driving the animation module before, so I am not really sure what broke there. after seeing that its deployable part was broken, I tested the microwave deployable phased array and the microwave receiver and encountered the same problem, as well as the science lab and the magnetometer. In short, every thing that can deploy is broken when it comes to deployment. Oddly enough, this excludes the radial warp engines.

Lastly is that the VAB thermal helper is broken. It has a button in the toolbar, but it does not pop up a screen at all

The first two problems are symptoms of the same internal error: none of the PartModules in the main Interstellar plugin are getting loaded. The zooming model is a stock bug that occurs when a part has three or more resources and no modules loaded. The parts that don't animate are the ones whose animations are controlled by KSPI modules; the radial warp drive uses a separate stock animation module.

The issue with the toolbar button showing up but not doing anything indicates that the InterstellarToolbar plugin is loading but the main plugin isn't.

If you'll post a log, we can probably tell you why the plugin isn't loading.

[Temeriki]

Omg yessssssssssss

[PringleMan]

The first two problems are symptoms of the same internal error: none of the PartModules in the main Interstellar plugin are getting loaded. The zooming model is a stock bug that occurs when a part has three or more resources and no modules loaded. The parts that don't animate are the ones whose animations are controlled by KSPI modules; the radial warp drive uses a separate stock animation module.

The issue with the toolbar button showing up but not doing anything indicates that the InterstellarToolbar plugin is loading but the main plugin isn't.

If you'll post a log, we can probably tell you why the plugin isn't loading.

edit: here is the output log

It seems like when it loaded the actual flight scene, it started throwing crazy out of bounds errors. I am going to check that ORS and what not has all the proper resources.

edit 2: found the problem. Multiple copies of the open resource DLL. I had Version 1.0, 1.1, AND 1.2 lol

Edited August 26, 2014 by PringleMan

[INSULINt]

How do I get direct conversion and ktec generators in sandbox?

Edit: I also am unable to upgrade in career?

Edited August 26, 2014 by INSULINt

[aryeh56]

You really should reuse the models of the inline radiators to implement the existing FNThermalHeatExchanger class. Right now i have that sort of implemented for my private use on the previous version, and Im not planning on upgrading in order to protect the designs I've made, but such a change would add a lot of fun usability. I can't speak for others, but it sure would convince me!

[Todesschabe]

Sorry, but for me it is not playable... CtD when clicking on first Engine or Parachute MK16 after a new Game. I wait for Stable Version...

Because Thanks to WaveFunctionP and Respect for his Work.

[Undecided]

Not sure if mentioned, but I'm having the same old bug I used to get when playing Fractal's last KSPI version where the thermal engines are borked. Graphics wise, they show twin trails (one facing the correct direction, another facing at a 90 degree angle) and both showing the graphics of firing engines -- even while still in the VAB. Additionally, when placing them on a connection node, no engine actually appears after clicking and the connection vanishes.

EDIT: Found the problem. This version changes the GameData directory from "WarpPlugin" to "Interstellar", causing duplicate parts. Might want to make a note of the directory change, otherwise other folks might make the same mistake (looking at 0.12 directories for deciding which old folders to delete).

Also, WaveFunction, I think you may have an out-of-date version of TweakScale packaged. Adding your version seems to disable TweakScale's usability on the parts from other mods (which is typically caused by out-of-date TweakScale versions). I think a new release came two days ago or so.

Edit2: Another possible issue: Now there's only the small heat radiator, which can only be scaled up two steps. This may drastically increase part counts on reactor or solar farms, (compared to TweakScaling up Huge radiators two steps) thus contributing to physics lag and slower saving/loading.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Undecided

[Sattorin]

I wasn't really familiar with Interstellar before downloading this experimental version... but is "IntakeAtmosphere" changed, or bugged? I thought I was getting it from standard air intakes before, but now I'm not. And the air scoops which say they can collect "IntakeAtmosphere" don't actually seem to gain it in flight (just deplete what it starts with, down to zero). Anyone know what's up?

[nebuchadnezzar]

EDIT: Found the problem. This version changes the GameData directory from "WarpPlugin" to "Interstellar", causing duplicate parts. Might want to make a note of the directory change, otherwise other folks might make the same mistake (looking at 0.12 directories for deciding which old folders to delete).

Sounds like you didn't follow the install instructions correctly.

I think it's time!

Installation

1. Delete any and all older versions of Interstellar. All of the files and folders. Nuke it. Seriously. All of it.

[Undecided]

Sounds like you didn't follow the install instructions correctly.

Some of us have multiple mods installed, y'know. And making things harder is the fact that folders usually don't match mod names (e.g., Interstellar -> WarpPlugin, Karbonite -> UmbraSpaceIndustries, Active Texture Managment -> BoulderCo). So short of compiling your own master checklist, the way we usually upgrade is just by looking at the new version's folders to tell which old ones we have to delete.

[undercoveryankee]

How do I get direct conversion and ktec generators in sandbox?

Edit: I also am unable to upgrade in career?

Upgrades and alternate modes have been removed from this version. You'll notice that none of the reactors make ChargedParticles any more either. There is now only one kind of generator, which is competitive with the old KTEC generator.

[Kethevin]

Congratulations on your release! :-)

This is something I've looked forward to.

[forsaken1111]

The old KTECs really felt like they were added 'just because'. I never used them much personally and I'm not sure what their intended purpose was.

[undercoveryankee]

Also, WaveFunction, I think you may have an out-of-date version of TweakScale packaged. Adding your version seems to disable TweakScale's usability on the parts from other mods (which is typically caused by out-of-date TweakScale versions). I think a new release came two days ago or so.

Edit2: Another possible issue: Now there's only the small heat radiator, which can only be scaled up two steps. This may drastically increase part counts on reactor or solar farms, (compared to TweakScaling up Huge radiators two steps) thus contributing to physics lag and slower saving/loading.

The copy of TweakScale packaged with KSPI was deliberately stripped of configs for other mods. From the OP:

Tweakscale Integration

Most parts will scale from .625m to 5m! The appropriate values are automatically adjusted for the new size. The mod includes a modified version of tweakscale which only includes configs for Interstellar and stock parts. If you have other parts you want to tweak, you will need to download the full version of tweakscale from the mod's author.

If you use TweakScale with anything else, you should be using the latest version from the TweakScale thread.

[undercoveryankee]

The old KTECs really felt like they were added 'just because'. I never used them much personally and I'm not sure what their intended purpose was.

There are different types of thermal-to-electrical generators that have been proposed for space-power-plant applications. Fractal thought it suited his purpose to represent two different styles with different efficiencies, where the less-efficient system is likely to be available at gigawatt scale sooner. The difference never really felt significant enough for the pain in the neck that it was to do anything else with upgradable parts.

[forsaken1111]

There are different types of thermal-to-electrical generators that have been proposed for space-power-plant applications. Fractal thought it suited his purpose to represent two different styles with different efficiencies, where the less-efficient system is likely to be available at gigawatt scale sooner. The difference never really felt significant enough for the pain in the neck that it was to do anything else with upgradable parts.

Precisely my point. It is all well and good to add some things because they are realistic and fit the mod's theme but this is a game, and things in a game should generally have some purpose or reason for being. From a gameplay perspective, it wasn't different enough to be interesting in my opinion nor did it fill any specific need that the normal fission reactor didn't.

[WaveFunctionP]

I liked the old reactor setup better. Reactors shouldn't be balanced purely around thrust and Isp, there is also electrical output, fuel cost, and mass to consider.

Edit: You nuked charged particles entirely? Ack!

Edit 2: Any chance of us getting a version without the reactor changes for those of us that run RSS?

I have some rough plans for the next update, and a lot of that is compatibility stuff. It will be a while before I can bring my attention back to kspie.

[WaveFunctionP]

I noticed that you AtmosphericScoop.cfg has " name = Atmospheric Scoop" I'm not sure if there is supposed to be a space there, none of the other part names have a space. It's probably no big deal, I just figured I would let ya know.

Thanks, it is those little details that add up to make the experience less than it should be.

[WaveFunctionP]

Heh. The only reason I used it was because Fractal based it on real world concepts, and AFAIK, the ISP and energy outputs were based on the real physics involved, not game balance questions. I haven't played Wave's new version yet, I'm a bit concerned the later reactors have been dramatically nerfed beyond their real-world equivalencies, although I'm looking forward to seeing what he has come up with and will hold comment until then.

I chose gameplay over realism. It's not really a choice for a video game though. It is a preference, and we can debate all day over what it better, but the core issue is that our values and priorities are different. I respect the realism asthetic and I sympathise with it a bit, but we also need to be honest that in a game about green men on a tiny earth...some things are going to behave differently that the real world.