[1.2.2] B9 Aerospace | Release 6.2.1 (Old Thread)

[K3-Chris]

Did you take heat and airflow into account? Sorry but you can't really design a plane with a ramjet engine on the wing, you design a ramjet engine and wrap something with small control fins around it. At hypersonic speeds nothing looking like a normal airplane would work.

It's hard to wrap your head around but you can't just bolt turbojets, ramjets and scramjets to a plane and have it go into space, subsonic, supersonic and hypersonic are very different conditions you need very different craft to tackle optimally, can't strap more powerful turbojets to a 747, add some ramjets and scramjets next to them on the wings and take it to the ISS.

Edited September 28, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Taverius]

@Taverius

From what I've read (mostly on Wikipedia), scramjet test we're performed around much much lower speeds:

I've thought about duct taping ramjet and scramjet configs to some models for my main playthrough and thought it would be reasonable to have Mach 2-4 "ramjet" (cite - Ramjets work most efficiently at supersonic speeds around Mach 3) and Mach 4-7 "scramjet" with intentional gap between the two so it wouldn't be like 'strap few of both and attach SRB for 2.5km/s'.

I know that name is going to be only realistic part of the engine but I think there is still some niche in KSP for things like that.

Yeah, but those SCRAMs were intentionally hobbled so they could build a test vehicle that didn't have to built out of unobtanium in order to not melt from the compression heating

They worked ... about 50% of the time ... and managed to accelerate from mach 4.8 @ ignition to mach 5.1 (because the engine was terribly inefficient due to being designed for the lowest of the hypersonic range).

If you want an engine that does that, I can whip you one up, but its a curiosity at best, and certainly no use whatsoever.

[K3-Chris]

I say lets add scrams to B9 but require people to use FAR and DRE to use em, watch their planes melt before they get near high enough speed to ignite them.

[dzikakulka]

Okay, thanks for the explanation, I'll stick to TVPP stuff for now, it's not like they would be really useful in KSP anyway

[DanTheGamer11]

I say lets add scrams to B9 but require people to use FAR and DRE to use em, watch their planes melt before they get near high enough speed to ignite them.

atm I'm at mach 5.2 with DRE and FAR and no problems O.o I only installed DRE now though, do the planes actually melt or explode?

[K3-Chris]

atm I'm at mach 5.2 with DRE and FAR and no problems O.o I only installed DRE now though, do the planes actually melt or explode?

Yes any exposed parts that aren't heat-shielded can blow up if they get too hot.

Before:

After:

Managed to save the crew actually, rocket engine was intact and I had some fuel left, pitched back and burned back up into orbit.

Was testing a prototype with no airbrakes or parachutes and I wasn't looking at KSP during re-entry, had lost altitude way too quickly and was going crazy fast pretty low where the air is...

Edited September 28, 2014 by K3|Chris

[DanTheGamer11]

Yes any exposed parts that aren't heat-shielded can blow up if they get too hot.

Oh that's so cool! Hmm seem to be maxing out at 5.65 with the 3 sabre plane I made before DRE. Not sure if KSP is a game for realism

[Guest]

Yes, if you fly fast enough, they do explode. However, "fast enough" in that case is often more than orbital speed if you play on stock Kerbin.

I say lets add scrams to B9 but require people to use FAR and DRE to use em, watch their planes melt before they get near high enough speed to ignite them.

That won't suffice, you'd have to use RSS in order to make SCRAMjets useful to any degree. IIRC, as it stands, you can reach orbital speeds with TVPP ramjets on stock Kerbin. I don't see a point of having a mach 8 engine on stock Kerbin. In RSS, I imagine it'd be hard to use, but not quite impossible.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Guest

[AetherGoddess]

Yes, if you fly fast enough, they do explode. However, "fast enough" in that case is often more than orbital speed if you play on stock Kerbin.

That won't suffice, you'd have to use RSS in order to make SCRAMjets useful to any degree. IIRC, as it stands, you can reach orbital speeds with TVPP ramjets on stock Kerbin. I don't see a point of having a mach 8 engine on stock Kerbin. In RSS, I imagine it'd be hard to use, but not quite impossible.

Pretty sure he was just suggesting trolling people. why not just cut out the middle Kerbal and put in a new "scamjet" part that directly causes DRE heating instead of thrust.

HELP! i'm using the new Scram-jet (weird naming, btw, isn't it a SC-RamJet? whatever) and whenever i stage it my plane just overheats and explodes.

Ya, that can happen if you're not going fast enough when you activate it. moar boosters, man.

well, i'm already at ejection velocity? in fact, i'm starting to get to the point where i'm melting from reentry heating on the way up. are you sure this thing works?

Edited September 28, 2014 by AetherGoddess

[MaverickSawyer]

Anyone else having issues with their TFE731 overheating and exploding at 2/3 power while on the straight pylon? It's frustrating.

EDIT: Raked pylons, too. What the hell is going on?

Edited September 28, 2014 by MaverickSawyer

[K3-Chris]

Anyone else having issues with their TFE731 overheating and exploding at 2/3 power while on the straight pylon? It's frustrating.

EDIT: Raked pylons, too. What the hell is going on?

Under what conditions? Pretty sure it's meant to overheat in some cases.

[Payload]

I used to play use B9 for a long time. Now it has become so full of dependency and bloat that it has turned me off. Any chance we can get a light version of this that doesn't require every single mod under the sun to work?

[Voculus]

I used to play use B9 for a long time. Now it has become so full of dependency and bloat that it has turned me off. Any chance we can get a light version of this that doesn't require every single mod under the sun to work?

You have to look at B9 as more than just a parts pack. It's an overhaul, really, and one of the best. If you want to nuke all the good stuff, you'll be left with blank monitors in IVA, no engine exhaust, and have to muscle up flying bricks through the stock soup atmosphere. You'd be doing yourself a disservice, in my humble opinion.

[MaverickSawyer]

Under what conditions? Pretty sure it's meant to overheat in some cases.

On the runway, applying takeoff power. I haven't made it past 100 m/s without them exploding. No other engine explodes at such a low throttle.

[Damaske]

Sorry for asking this if it has been answered before but i am having issues with the HX1-A-375 Reinforced Docking Port (x3) docking with each other. I do have other mods that "might" mess them up. So I'll attempt a "clean" install of just b9 and mechjeb and see if it is still there having issues.

The issues that I have noticed are:

Mechjeb does not see them as valid targets to dock with. (mechjeb mod responsibility?)

When attempting to dock them myself they do not have a magnetic pull and will not lock into place.

I have the ports on the side of the craft using on of the radial attachment points.

[Taverius]

I used to play use B9 for a long time. Now it has become so full of dependency and bloat that it has turned me off. Any chance we can get a light version of this that doesn't require every single mod under the sun to work?

No. This is the mod we want to make. We'll probably add more. Want us to stop using so many plugins? Tell Squad to fix their bugs, half our work is working around stock issues.

Anyone else having issues with their TFE731 overheating and exploding at 2/3 power while on the straight pylon? It's frustrating.

EDIT: Raked pylons, too. What the hell is going on?

You must construct additional information. Like, for example, is this with DRE? Did you try it with just B9?

Sorry for asking this if it has been answered before but i am having issues with the HX1-A-375 Reinforced Docking Port (x3) docking with each other. I do have other mods that "might" mess them up. So I'll attempt a "clean" install of just b9 and mechjeb and see if it is still there having issues.

I have no idea what could be going on, there's absolutely nothing special going on in the part, they're just a boring docking node.

[RussianIvan]

Why is there no cockpit of Concorde?

[smunisto]

Tav, sorry, I haven't been following both B9's thread and your own Pizza and Aerospace one in the past months. But I recently came back to the game and I noticed the aircraft engines overheat super-fast, I can't even takeoff. I guess it is intended, but how to fix it on my side? Do I need more intakes to cool them down? Sound like an unrealistic solution, so I guess I am doing something wrong. For example the TFE731 turbofan starts overheating before even reaching 40% throttle.

Another thing, which maybe you have heard users complaining of(even though it probably has nothing to do with B9 itself), is that some parts, like the aforementioned turbofans seem to be transparent to some degree. I guess this might be due to Kronal's vessel viewer, but decided to ask here too.

Thanks for your time.

[Taverius]

Tav, sorry, I haven't been following both B9's thread and your own Pizza and Aerospace one in the past months. But I recently came back to the game and I noticed the aircraft engines overheat super-fast, I can't even takeoff. I guess it is intended, but how to fix it on my side? Do I need more intakes to cool them down? Sound like an unrealistic solution, so I guess I am doing something wrong. For example the TFE731 turbofan starts overheating before even reaching 40% throttle.

Another thing, which maybe you have heard users complaining of(even though it probably has nothing to do with B9 itself), is that some parts, like the aforementioned turbofans seem to be transparent to some degree. I guess this might be due to Kronal's vessel viewer, but decided to ask here too.

Thanks for your time.

I'm not sure what kind of mods you people are running, but none of that happens here.

I can sit in the Van Vogt (3x TFE731s) stopped on the runway with the engines at full throttle, and while they do get /hot/ they dont blow up - working as intended.

Works the same with or without DRE, so long as you RTFM and make sure to nuke any and all patch files in other mods that edit B9, like HotRockets, MFT, RF, DRE, etc.

And I've never seen this transparency thing, no idea what mod is causing it but it ain't b9.

[smunisto]

I noticed it while trying to take off. The same happened with the stock jet engine(the "low-tech" one).

I was wondering if it is some function you have implemented in TVPP or B9, since the engines are perfectly fine, they don't suffer from some catastrophic mid-flight overheats.

It only happens when I push them to 100% on the runway before I am even moving. Like...not enough air is passing through them to cool them down or something.

Otherwise, if I let them spool up they don't seem to explode and once I am in the air, there is no problem running any jet/turbofan engine at 100% whatsoever.

About the mods - yes, I run stock settings DRE and I know it generally causes trouble with overheating engines sometimes, but I thought it talks well with your part cfg-s and have never personally experienced any problems with it.

I also run a ton of other mods, but the ones that touch on aerodynamics are FAR, DRE, your amazing TVPP and B9, that's it.

Once again - no problems in flight, so maybe I am just trying to fly wrong.

And another question - I noticed the TFE731's throttle up and down automatically which conforms greatly with maneuvers - the moment I pitch up, they throttle, the moment I level - the turbofans reduce thrust. Sometimes when I pitch down, for a landing, they even cut all thrust. This is intended I guess? Is it specific to the turbofan engines, or all aircraft engines in B9 and by extension the stock ones(due to TVPP) have such a function?

[K3-Chris]

Why is there no cockpit of Concorde?

(flat shading used to better see the lines of the model, texture will obviously be more complex)

Because I'm still making it, sorry but the workflow to make a cockpit with an IVA is pretty torturous, I got the exterior design to a point I really liked, then exported the exterior and a placeholder interior with 2 kerbals where they should be, looked around and looked out the windows, it felt like a glass bubble with thin re-enforcement bands of metal around it, it's a common mistake though, your mind is very adept at filtering out what it's not looking for, if you sit inside a house, a car, a plane and you're looking out the windows your brain is very adept at filtering out the inside of what you're inside, if you make the windows the size and proximity you think they should be from the outside it's way overkill from the inside, so I had to re-adjust all the windows, all of them, which might sound like a small task, it's not, it involves the manipulation of 200+ polygons.

Re-adjusted windows seen from the interior:

(pillar on the right not joined with the wall properly yet)

Don't worry Tav, I've made the black heat-shielded borders larger to shrink the windows a bit but the texture won't have heatshielding on the whole of those polygons, more like half.

What it used to look like for reference:

Can see the difference in the window geometry fairly clearly.

Edited September 29, 2014 by K3|Chris

[jlbasey]

I'm still struggling getting this to load completely for me. The only thing I have in my GameData folder is all the contents of B9, active texture, and Mechjeb. It always freezes on the Mechjeb Rasterprop file, or the internal spaces for squads mk1 cockpit. I've tried everything and I can't get it to work. I don't want to just keep deleting files that don't work. Anybody have any hints or tips if I'm overlooking something super obvious? Thanks in advance.

[K3-Chris]

jlbasey: Never heard of a problem like that, my best guess is you've done something terribly wrong like nesting gamedata folders etc.

[Taverius]

I noticed it while trying to take off. The same happened with the stock jet engine(the "low-tech" one).

I was wondering if it is some function you have implemented in TVPP or B9, since the engines are perfectly fine, they don't suffer from some catastrophic mid-flight overheats.

It only happens when I push them to 100% on the runway before I am even moving. Like...not enough air is passing through them to cool them down or something.

Otherwise, if I let them spool up they don't seem to explode and once I am in the air, there is no problem running any jet/turbofan engine at 100% whatsoever.

About the mods - yes, I run stock settings DRE and I know it generally causes trouble with overheating engines sometimes, but I thought it talks well with your part cfg-s and have never personally experienced any problems with it.

I also run a ton of other mods, but the ones that touch on aerodynamics are FAR, DRE, your amazing TVPP and B9, that's it.

Once again - no problems in flight, so maybe I am just trying to fly wrong.

And another question - I noticed the TFE731's throttle up and down automatically which conforms greatly with maneuvers - the moment I pitch up, they throttle, the moment I level - the turbofans reduce thrust. Sometimes when I pitch down, for a landing, they even cut all thrust. This is intended I guess? Is it specific to the turbofan engines, or all aircraft engines in B9 and by extension the stock ones(due to TVPP) have such a function?

None of that happens here. You have some other mod interfering.

[jlbasey]

I got this error in my log: [EXC 15:27:09.080] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

Also I don't see module manager initiating like I have before I updated to this version of B9, not sure if it's related, but figured I would mention it.