[1.2.2] Stock Part Revamp, Update 1.9.6. Released Source Files!

[BudgetHedgehog]

2. You renamed the Poodle. This is just... confusing. It is! This leads to a whole lot of confusion with what to call it to players who do not use the revamp. This definitely needs to be fixed. Adding a new engine called the Poodle only makes this worse. "So I gotta use the poodle" "Wait, that's not a poodle..." "Yeah it is, Ven's revamp is weird."

While I disagree with a lot of the criticisms, I have to say - the confusion around the Poodle rename is nothing that can't be solved with one sentence - "the Poodle is renamed the Service Engine and there's a new, smaller engine that is called the Poodle" - and it's not like players are going to forget Old Poodle's name if explaining to other players. If you're talking to someone with stock, call it a Poodle. If you're talking to someone with this revamp, call it the Service Engine. If you want someone to use the New Poodle, call it, surprise surprise, the Poodle.

God damn it, Poodle is an awful name for anything.

[bac9]

I'd say I agree with removal of Poodle name, use of shared texture over adding unique ones just for one stripe, and four nozzles on the SRB. Those are not sacred pillars of stock style and don't really deserve particular respect I think.

Edited January 3, 2015 by bac9

[Sage]

1. Yes, I agree with this. I added that at the last minute so it'd make sense with the model.
   
2. The Poodle is a weird case. The current name is extremely apt for its current form, but it is confusing to the uninniated. Perhaps I should rename the new engine to the Gerbil...
   
3. The rt-10 isn't set in stone, and is subject to change. I hate doing SRBs.
   
4. Due to the way the textures and models were made, I can't add any details like that without it also being pasted over the other tanks. If I add more tanks in the future, then it'd be fairly easy to have stripes on this tank, but as is I have to keep moving. The Iva instruments aren't going to finish themselves.
   
5. I scrapped the mk1 and 1-2pods. So now they'll look leagues better then the current models. I also added those fairings that some were asking for. Along with something that'll .... off several people, but it solves the heatshield problem before it even begins.
   

1. Didn't once the mainsail had gimbal, with module FX and all of that?
   
2. I don't have sny particular comment here, I personally don't care a lot about names, but I can sympatize with people that get confused about the poodle thing
   
3. I actually like the SRB, and I would recommend that you come back to it only after you finished other parts
   
4. In the worst case, you can add a line in the description using MM after the stripes one that says: "in fact, it went so fast in our test that the stripes wore off". It keeps the humoros tone and it's consistent. Either way, I stopped reading the descriptions long ago, so it's fine
   
5. That's nice to hear but I seriusly hope that it's not an integrated heat shield...I like the idea of a HS made by you, but I would like it more if it is a separate part that I can use on other things too. Plus an integrated heatshield would mess up even more compatibility with SDHI excellent service module system.
   

Either way, keep up your excellent work

Edited January 3, 2015 by Sage
forgot [list]

[_Augustus_]

This is broken with MM 2.5.6.

[passinglurker]

This is broken with MM 2.5.6.

I think ven would need more than that to go off of. I have 2.5.6 and just ran my game last night with no noticeable problems

Edited January 3, 2015 by passinglurker

[RainDreamer]

Hey Ven, would you be interested in making a simple equilateral triangle structural plate like the existing triangular plate? I have been requesting such a piece on addon discussion, and a person there suggest I should come to you. If you are not interested, would it be possible to send me the source files for the plate instead?

Edit: Ignore this, I found what I needed somewhere else. Sorry for bothering you.

Edited January 4, 2015 by RainDreamer

[Mecripp]

Hey Ven, would you be interested in making a simple equilateral triangle structural plate like the existing triangular plate? I have been requesting such a piece on addon discussion, and a person there suggest I should come to you. If you are not interested, would it be possible to send me the source files for the plate instead?

You might google LH_Prometheus it as a triangular part that had a rover in it sadly the rover don't work the the triangular part does opens up and has a chute.

EDIT- You could rescale it to what size you need.

EDIT-

Edited January 3, 2015 by Mecripp2

[RainDreamer]

You might google LH_Prometheus it as a triangular part that had a rover in it sadly the rover don't work the the triangular part does opens up and has a chute.

EDIT- You could rescale it to what size you need.

I just need a structural piece though.

[Whirligig Girl]

1. Yes, I agree with this. I added that at the last minute so it'd make sense with the model.
   
2. The Poodle is a weird case. The current name is extremely apt for its current form, but it is confusing to the uninniated. Perhaps I should rename the new engine to the Gerbil...
   
3. The rt-10 isn't set in stone, and is subject to change. I hate doing SRBs.
   
4. Due to the way the textures and models were made, I can't add any details like that without it also being pasted over the other tanks. If I add more tanks in the future, then it'd be fairly easy to have stripes on this tank, but as is I have to keep moving. The Iva instruments aren't going to finish themselves.
   
5. I scrapped the mk1 and 1-2pods. So now they'll look leagues better then the current models. I also added those fairings that some were asking for. Along with something that'll .... off several people, but it solves the heatshield problem before it even begins.
   

Do you by any chance have any work done on those low-tier engines? Or other progress pics? That ought to make everyone happy again.

[architeuthis]

Should the LV-N gets a generator bonus like the small poodle now? About to install near future propulsion, probably will modify the small poodle to use liquid hydrogen, and thinking I might as well add the generator to stock LV-N.

Would that be too OP?

It's a cute idea. I don't think it would be very OP, but it wouldn't be very realistic. The LV-N model is based on an early 60's Aerojet NERVA mock up. A nuclear rocket engine that generates electricity at a constant rate (not just by running an alternator off of a turbopump that only generates power when the engine is running) is called a bi-modal nuclear thermal rocket engine. Bi-modal engines are a more recent idea than the old NERVA type engines. The thing of it is, is that since the rocket engine is also acting on a heat engine cycle (such as the brayton or rankine cycles) just like a conventional powerplant you need lots of additional equipment: compressors, heat exchangers, turbines and big radiator panels. This stuff is bulkier than the engine itself and isn't represented at all in the model.

Here is an example image from nyrath's excellent website:

The big ridged cone is the radiator for the power system. All of the other stuff is tucked away inside of it.

- - - Updated - - -

Unrelated to my last post, but though I adore this mod there are a few cases where I prefer the stock model. Is there a way to disable just those ones?

[Whirligig Girl]

Should the LV-N gets a generator bonus like the small poodle now? About to install near future propulsion, probably will modify the small poodle to use liquid hydrogen, and thinking I might as well add the generator to stock LV-N.

Would that be too OP?

NO STOCK PART SHOULD BE CHANGED BY THIS MOD. IT'S IN CAPS BECAUSE THIS REALLY MATTERS.

While I disagree with a lot of the criticisms, I have to say - the confusion around the Poodle rename is nothing that can't be solved with one sentence - "the Poodle is renamed the Service Engine and there's a new, smaller engine that is called the Poodle" - and it's not like players are going to forget Old Poodle's name if explaining to other players. If you're talking to someone with stock, call it a Poodle. If you're talking to someone with this revamp, call it the Service Engine. If you want someone to use the New Poodle, call it, surprise surprise, the Poodle.

God damn it, Poodle is an awful name for anything.

Is "Poodle" a bad name for the dog?

- - - Updated - - -

Should the LV-N gets a generator bonus like the small poodle now? About to install near future propulsion, probably will modify the small poodle to use liquid hydrogen, and thinking I might as well add the generator to stock LV-N.

Would that be too OP?

It's a cute idea. I don't think it would be very OP, but it wouldn't be very realistic. The LV-N model is based on an early 60's Aerojet NERVA mock up. A nuclear rocket engine that generates electricity at a constant rate (not just by running an alternator off of a turbopump that only generates power when the engine is running) is called a bi-modal nuclear thermal rocket engine. Bi-modal engines are a more recent idea than the old NERVA type engines. The thing of it is, is that since the rocket engine is also acting on a heat engine cycle (such as the brayton or rankine cycles) just like a conventional powerplant you need lots of additional equipment: compressors, heat exchangers, turbines and big radiator panels. This stuff is bulkier than the engine itself and isn't represented at all in the model.

Here is an example image from nyrath's excellent website: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/images/enginelist/tritonScan.jpg

The big ridged cone is the radiator for the power system. All of the other stuff is tucked away inside of it.

- - - Updated - - -

Unrelated to my last post, but though I adore this mod there are a few cases where I prefer the stock model. Is there a way to disable just those ones?

Comment out the part in the ModuleManger config.

[passinglurker]

NO STOCK PART SHOULD BE CHANGED BY THIS MOD. IT'S IN CAPS BECAUSE THIS REALLY MATTERS.

Ok I don't care if you think its important your capslocking is coming across as demanding and rude so for the sake of saving yourself some face I'd advise you to cut it out.

Also technically the only rule this mod needs to follow to work as advertised is that you can swap the stock parts with these parts and your ship won't be more likely to spontaneously explode.

Is "Poodle" a bad name for the dog?

Is pikachu a bad name for a pokemon?(hint: yes) you generally don't name things after their own species that's just weird yet naming them after a different species (like naming a dog "bear") some how isn't.(conclusion: human naming habits are weird)

[BudgetHedgehog]

Is "Poodle" a bad name for the dog?

Yes. It's a bad name for literally anything. It's just such a ridiculous sounding word, with two plosives and not much else. Puh-dul.. ˈpuËÂ.dlÌ©... Just listen to the British pronunciation of it and then tell me with a straight face that it belongs to a highly specialised scientific peice of equipment such as a rocket engine.

[Whirligig Girl]

Yes. It's a bad name for literally anything. It's just such a ridiculous sounding word, with two plosives and not much else. Puh-dul.. ˈpuËÂ.dlÌ©... Just listen to the British pronunciation of it and then tell me with a straight face that it belongs to a highly specialised scientific peice of equipment such as a rocket engine.

Puh Dul. "Kapoom... Dooool." The sound of a failed rocket engine? Nah, you're right.

[Ziff]

Changing the gimbal of the engine is still not okay. That's one thing I shall not be changing my stance about. Some of the other things are eh, but changing something so that it is not actually a stock part anymore is too far. And the model for the Poodle is brilliant. It's the rename I disagree with. Yes, the name is a bit silly, but it's confusing to change it.

This is your opinion. Other people, like myself, are perfectly happy with the changes that Ven has made. Again, you are free to not install those features but to continue to make it seem as if somehow this mod must be changed to suit you is just ridiculous.

Now that's just sad that a person can't provide feedback without this kind of response.

He isn't providing constructive criticism. He's saying "I like several of these things better the way they are in stock KSP." and quite literally demanding that nothing be changed except for the models. If that's how you feel about a mod then don't install those features. Or learn how to mod something yourself and make it how you want it, but to demand that a mod be changed to be more like stock because you just prefer stock.. Well that's just stupid.

[Ven]

He isn't providing constructive criticism. He's saying "I like several of these things better the way they are in stock KSP." and quite literally demanding that nothing be changed except for the models.

All criticisms, no matter how they are worded, are valid. However, it is up to the one being criticized to determine a way in which to use that criticism constructively, and it may or may not be in the way that the criticizer originally intended.

Anyways Preview Time:

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[CaptainKipard]

Great as usual.

I think I can see a shroud on that pod, but I'm not sure.

[passinglurker]

So whats the isp on the rockmax 105-7P? I ask because its already lighter, cheaper, and has better thrust than the lv909 so ya'know moderately significant balance implications and all that jazz

[Ven]

So whats the isp on the rockmax 105-7P? I ask because its already lighter, cheaper, and has better thrust than the lv909 so ya'know moderately significant balance implications and all that jazz

It has an Isp of 269-310s(Vac). This'll hopefully stop it from replacing the 909' entirely. If that's not enough, then the thrust will be lowered.

A better view of the bottom of the fairing:

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

-snip-

You literally just asked him to change his entire mod that he's been working on this whole time, completely, because it's "not stock enough." I thought the point of this mod was to move away from the stock aesthetic. As for the changing of the stats, the name of the mod is literally, Vens Stock Part Revamp. 3/10 if trolling, try again. 4/10 if an actual opinion, makes no sense. Also, at least 5 people? Out of the hundreds who use this mod. Heh.

[RainDreamer]

Not sure I like the new reaction wheels looks...I kind of like the stock circuit-like look with visible mechanisms. And is the shorter decoupler lighter in mass? Kind of wonder what niche it fills.

Love the rest though, especially the new probes.

Will the LV-N be in your list of things to be revamped? Now that I read more on NTR, I think it too should have a generator on it. Trying to figure out how you did it with the poodle atm, that makes the generator turns off when engine is in use.

Edited January 4, 2015 by RainDreamer

[Ven]

You literally just asked him to change his entire mod that he's been working on this whole time, completely, because it's "not stock enough." I thought the point of this mod was to move away from the stock aesthetic. As for the changing of the stats, the name of the mod is literally, Vens Stock Part Revamp.

My goal is to improve upon the part quality of the stock game. Quality applies to astetics, efficiency, and added gameplay options that will hopefully flesh out the holes in the stock lineup.

3/10 if trolling, try again. 4/10 if an actual opinion, makes no sense. Also, at least 5 people? Out of the hundreds who use this mod. Heh.

GregroxMun was simply voicing his opinion, which is just as important as anyone elses. Despite the fact that he is one voice in the crowd, he may just point out a problem that no-one else has noticed or has been bothered to bring up. For that, I really need to thank him for making that effort.

That being said, things like making multiple versions of this mod, while possible, are impractical for many reasons (mainly bug reports).

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure I like the new reaction wheels looks...I kind of like the stock circuit-like look with visible mechanisms. And is the shorter decoupler lighter in mass? Kind of wonder what niche it fills.

Its basically a short 2m decoupler,having lower profile ships is the main use for it.

Will the LV-N be in your list of things to be revamped? Now that I read more on NTR, I think it too should have a generator on it. Trying to figure out how you did it with the poodle atm, that makes the generator turns off when engine is in use.

I believe your talking about something else, because the LV-N is done and shipped.

The Poodle NTR has a module generator on it, but the engine's alternator consumes that power when it is running. Its a bit off right now, but it produces way less power when its running.

[RainDreamer]

I believe your talking about something else, because the LV-N is done and shipped.

The Poodle NTR has a module generator on it, but the engine's alternator consumes that power when it is running. Its a bit off right now, but it produces way less power when its running.

Oh I meant that would it be modified to have the generator module instead of the alternator similar to the poodle (using 1.6B atm -was there any changes?)? Currently it looks like it is still an alternator module that generate electricity. If that is not in the plan, I will try to get my hand on it and poke around the .cfg.

And negative energy alternator, that is interesting! How did you come up with those values?

[Ven]

Oh I meant that would it be modified to have the generator module instead of the alternator similar to the poodle (using 1.6B atm -was there any changes?)? Currently it looks like it is still an alternator module that generate electricity. If that is not in the plan, I will try to get my hand on it and poke around the .cfg.

And negative energy alternator, that is interesting! How did you come up with those values?

1.6B was a bugfix update that fixed the 2x2 panel and the MK2 lamp.

It took alot of testing:confused:

[BudgetHedgehog]

Oh my golly gosh, that's some nice pods.. Very Gemini. Question - are you planning on tackling the existing IVAs? And how's the Mk1 inline cockpit going? Very much looking forward to the update