parts [1.12.x] Karbonite/Karbonite Plus (K+)

[Ricardo79]

Hello RoverDude

I just found an asteroid with Karborundum. And realized, only the Ka625 minidrill can mine it (according to the parts description and modules list in VAB)

All the radially attached (DRT 15-40) drills only lists karbonite. (I do have installed K+ too)

And just a note or maybe a possible feature request: With mostly all of YOUR mods on an otherwise stock game there is no need for liquid hydrogen (Or I am just not seem it. Anyway doublechecked) But if I am right, you should consider FSfuelswitch karborundum instead of the LH.

For example the inflatable storage: Refueling-2 setup is pretty much useless. it lists:

SolidFuel ??!??!?!!? (What the heck is that for? Solidfuel boosters aren't worth even hauling empited as they are sooo cheap. And how can you make that fuel anyway?)

LH: absolutely useless! I tripple checked that right now. Your "extra" engines use Karborundum, karbonite or exoticmatter and Xenon gas.

Monoprop: That tank setup is only usable for this.

But If you would change it for example: MP, Xenon, Karborundum That would be THE GOLDEN tank setup. (I did that for my personal use but I am affraid to loose it after your next release as I tend to forget things like it )

I am write here my other observation related to AMT because that has not got a forum opened to it:

That ship desintegration thing for me only occures if I attach the inline laser right after that regolith excavator and maybe related somehow to Tweakscale too. As when I got rid of that no problems occured. there are still nothing in the logs, sorry.

[Ricardo79]

Hmmm.

Multispectral Analysis module writes 2.8756% of Karborundum.

And something like Argon (athmo).(how can a asteroid have an athmoshere?)

The KA625 drill wirtes nothing to harvest. ( Is that drill can't operate on attached Asteroids? YEP it can operate For ore at least.)

In this I need help of where to look for the right instrument and useability of it (I mean attach-ed or just floating nearby?? for the karborundum and the argon)

I am on a 3million Km Kerbin orbit with a class c I think and a 1.2 million Kerbuck worth of nothing but ore/water hardware.

Water/minerals/uraninite/substrate/ore drills working just fine on the same asteroid I think these two are MKS stuff. Ok those drills are goooooood For fun and PROFIT. Good to have an orbital uranium factory with a kolony logistics module.

I love your mods.

For the tank setups: which tank am I supposed to store argon? I didn't find one suitable. And how to "mine" it? (This little baby have 4% some according to the multispectral analysis (athmo ))

I know this is a "regolith" ressource, but what for if we can't sell it/store it? Other than that this is mostly useless even for ion drives unless you came up with something in the constellation

I don't want to install another mod Like realfuels or nearfuture ion to this KSP. Finaly I am getting it somewhat stable with the absolutely must to have mods and USI products.

Edit-------------

The fearsome regolith excavator did the trick. I am in the karborundum monopoly now.

I am hoping to switching back and forth to the tracking station won't disintegrate the asteroid

Edit2: -------------------------

YESSSSSSSS It is alive.

But As I can notice. Something wrong going with that excavator and the inline laser too.

All the drills worked in the background while I was landing back those reusable lifters. Therefore I am full of ore and the excavator and the laser stopped working as soon as I get out of the range and they were unloaded. According to what I can see it has only that 0.1 unit of karborundum which was left with.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Ricardo79

[Shpiler]

First of all - thanks for your great mods.

One thing i want to know - will the Karborundum be compatible with next KSP release? We know, that you are working on the resource system in 1.0, so..

I have a great plan about new game in new version, but this plan includes K+ and CTT, and i hope this will be real. Through no one knows how the new resource system will look like, there is too much questions

[Ricardo79]

hmm.. thought we left Karborundum out of the loghub config...

I missed this answer.

No it is there.

Not as a payment for the transfer. But You CAN transfer the K+ for example to a ship on the launchpad make sure you have at least that white unfoldable antenna or that yellow one on the ship and the kolony logistics modul on the miner or on a station where

you want to start the transfer. (Not tested, but maybe you can have only one KL part in the same SOI...)

You can transfer it from the same planets orbit with the kolony logistics in exchange for karbonite or LFO.

Ideas I am tried with this:

Mine karborundum from asteroid orbiting kerbin. set to launch a ship with lots of K+ radial tanks the 500 unit sized.

From the mining site kolony logistics the K+ to the ship on the launchpad. After it arrives, just collect the ship. bamm I've got a few million more Kerbucks.

Mine uraninite from a kerbin orbitting asteroid (or from the mün but that is a bit trickier). KL it to the MKS station with a science modul. transform it to enricheduranium. And KL that to Kebrin the same way as K+.

Attention: Uraninite is Heavy so possible launchpad explosions when the fully loaded tanker on that loads by game. With the enriched Uranium I didn't tested it with extreme weight, just small amounts because no viable huge enought tank present for that.

!I think I did FSFuelswitch some of the biggest tanks to can hold uraninite for hauling purposes.! I can't remember now.

[pasty2k2]

So you can transfer Karborundum itself, just not use it as a fuel to make the transfer (like the choice between LFO/Karbonite), right?

[Ricardo79]

So you can transfer Karborundum itself, just not use it as a fuel to make the transfer (like the choice between LFO/Karbonite), right?

Right

[protoz]

So you can transfer Karborundum itself, just not use it as a fuel to make the transfer (like the choice between LFO/Karbonite), right?

Right thats how my harvesters work on page 32's pictures. Otherwise I would have to give them a torch engine to bring that stuff into orbit, i'd imagine this will be the case if roverdude decides to change k+ logistics hub deal. I'll just end up making a torch ship w. ~1024 drills that harvests it on Eve's surface at a concentration of .005%. Which will still be infinitely times better in, efficiency, ease, harvesting speed, and scaling the magnitudes of K+ harvested then any amount of solar collectors.

Edited March 17, 2015 by protoz

[pasty2k2]

Oddly I didn't spot those pics despite only being 2 pages away, and started designing something very similar myself, but only 72 drills. What was the rate you get from 128 drills, at say 1000x timewarp (since the number is going to be -0.00 at 1x)? Just to give me an idea!

Are you using FAR and Deadly Re-entry? if so how did you land that? Miy current design which also handles mass LH2 production works out at about 90T, which is landable I think but may take 100 chutes and a couple reloads.

[RoverDude]

Yeahhhh.... there might be a tweak to prevent people drill spamming in the future

[Chyort]

The reason we drill spam is to avoid time warping decades away just to fill up the tank.

Personally i am not looking forward to having drills wear out, or any number of other grinding things you might come up with. Making me deal with transfer windows and years long transit times is bad enough. Heh

[goldenpsp]

The reason we drill spam is to avoid time warping decades away just to fill up the tank.

Personally i am not looking forward to having drills wear out, or any number of other grinding things you might come up with. Making me deal with transfer windows and years long transit times is bad enough. Heh

I think Roverdude's idea was that it would be hard to fill up the tank. You don't need that much fuel to go really far.

[Chyort]

Human nature, is human nature.

You give someone a large gas tank, they will try to find a way to fill it full.

All the more so when it involves "years" of time before you can ever start filling up, and years more before you can really start to use it.

The warp drive, jump beacons, or possibly EPL can reduce this a bit. But not everyone wants to use them.

Personally, by the time i actually get enough K+ to start doing stuff with, i will have maxed out the tech tree and am swimming in cash. Which also usually means i am running out of things to do, making K+ itself less interesting to me.

[protoz]

Oddly I didn't spot those pics despite only being 2 pages away, and started designing something very similar myself, but only 72 drills. What was the rate you get from 128 drills, at say 1000x timewarp (since the number is going to be -0.00 at 1x)? Just to give me an idea!

Are you using FAR and Deadly Re-entry? if so how did you land that? Miy current design which also handles mass LH2 production works out at about 90T, which is landable I think but may take 100 chutes and a couple reloads.

Well in that picture i posted few pages earlier, one of the harvesters has 800 units of K+ at 193Days from start of harvesting and i took around 300 units of K+ earlier from each harvester so 1100 units of k+ in 193days, so your looking at somewhere in the ballpark of 193/365 = 52% 1,100 * .48 + 1,100 = 1,628 units of K+ each year per harvester.

And i don't need to go to 1,000x timewarp to see the gain in resource window, 50x timewarp shows a gain of -0.01, but thats not important as i just told you the exact amount in previous sentence.

Im not using FAR or Deadly re-entry, i crafted those vessel w. EPL at a price of ~35k rocket parts for each harvester which is built on the surface of Eve, they fly really slow i don't think FAR or Deadly Re-entry will have any effects if i was to use those mods.

Also im not a fan of using 10,000x time warp, anyone can get infinite amount of K+, just leave your machine running overnight w. 10,000x timewarp & 1 drill. I like to build things in massive scale, i get to Eve in 50 days from Kerbin, I use several shipyards in EPL to build my vessels consecutively to save time, a colony of 30 thats self sustained, & i ran of things to do at this point while playing on career hard and only reloading due to EPL spontaneously exploding my crafted vessels.

Edited March 18, 2015 by protoz

[Ricardo79]

It is a good thing to have the AMT Bug

In this way I can utilize as many K+ as I want because my nr2 Kerbins Pet (asteroid) have 50t of resource. And it respawns resources every time I switch to it from track/map view.

I can get 2000 unit of K+ in no matter of time. I think it's near 0.5 minutes of the max timewarp a 3m km away orbit let's you. With one regolith excavator and an inline laser.

Its 4 million Kerbuck

[RoverDude]

The reason we drill spam is to avoid time warping decades away just to fill up the tank.

Personally i am not looking forward to having drills wear out, or any number of other grinding things you might come up with. Making me deal with transfer windows and years long transit times is bad enough. Heh

Human nature, is human nature.

You give someone a large gas tank, they will try to find a way to fill it full.

All the more so when it involves "years" of time before you can ever start filling up, and years more before you can really start to use it.

The warp drive, jump beacons, or possibly EPL can reduce this a bit. But not everyone wants to use them.

Personally, by the time i actually get enough K+ to start doing stuff with, i will have maxed out the tech tree and am swimming in cash. Which also usually means i am running out of things to do, making K+ itself less interesting to me.

So if you do not want to use the bits this is meant to fuel... and you are swimming in cash... what's the point?

The reason the fuel is a pain and is also intentionally limited is to balance the stuff it powers, as well as it's recovery cost.

[protoz]

I made a mistake with my numbers in earlier post the correct value is 1100/.52 = 2115 K+ per 365 days for 128 drills @ a .005 K+ crust concentration.

[WuphonsReach]

The reason the fuel is a pain and is also intentionally limited is to balance the stuff it powers, as well as it's recovery cost.

Agreed from a game balance perspective.

Let's assume a 3600 day transit to Eeloo and back with ~2800 days of mining. My feeling from game balance is that on normal difficulty, contracts should net about 2000 funds/day. So it should be possible to mine and return about 7.2 million in funds of K+ on Eeloo during that 2800 days of mining. Or maybe even round it up a bit so that the net return for 2800 days of mining is closer to 10 million.

But I'm waiting to see how Squad balances out contract payouts (hopefully contracts are balanced based on expected time to complete x some base value, such as 2k/day on Normal). Right now, a lot of contracts are not worth tying up a contract slot for the duration of the contract.

I'm still of the opinion that there should be (in the base K+ package) a random (low) chance of "gold mine" pockets of K+, equivalent to Eeloo density, elsewhere in the system. Maybe one biome in the Jool system picked at random. Maybe a lesser density, but still worthwhile, pair of pockets in the rest of the system (i.e. pick 2 biomes outside of Kerbin's SoI and fill them with moderate density K+).

[RoverDude]

There is already Just they are very rare

Oh... and asteroids too

[Donziboy2]

There is already Just they are very rare

Oh... and asteroids too

I thought ART and AMT needed wasp spray?

[goldenpsp]

I thought ART and AMT needed wasp spray?

Only ART IIRC.

[Ricardo79]

Only ART IIRC.

You mean AMT.

ART is mostly for storing stuff not getting stuff.... As far as I know it, right?

Edit: -------------------------------------

Ooooh Sorry I misunderstanded then.

For clarification: ART is full of bees indeed.

And you should use AMT for asteroidal mining.

Thanks GoldenPSP.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Ricardo79

[goldenpsp]

You mean AMT.

ART is mostly for storing stuff not getting stuff.... As far as I know it, right?

What? your reply makes no sense. He was asking if ART and AMT were full of bees (or wasps in his case). I was replying that only ART is full of bees at the moment. AMT is fine.

[Shalidor]

anyone every find K+ in concentrations over 0.0010% on Eeloo? I myself have been prospecting that hunk of rock for a while and have not found any...looking for hunting tips also.

[RoverDude]

0.4.0 IS UP

Just a compatibility patch for 1.0

[comicbstudeo]

Monopolizing on the 1.0 modding market i see.