Dread Industries Unlimited (Potential Project Poll Posted!)

[dreadicon]

Introducing the debut of Dread Industries! I (dreadicon, CEO, President, Lead Developer, and....only employee) am proud to present the first fielding of potential products for our dubious development! Place a poll and make a motion to help direct development! Detailed descriptions at your behest below. (Obligatory ominous DISCLAIMER: Dread Ind. has decisive discretion to disregard observations and opinions oppositional to it's own.)

Totally Theoretical Technologies

This is a mod which explores lesser known technologies which have been theorized possible with near future technologies, but we are still years or decades away from making them a reality.

Some examples include Red Oxygen, Metallic Hydrogen, ultralight carbon foam, super-conductive mag-lev, and Fusor/Polywell generators. Note that my modelling skills are....next to non existent, so this would use parts from stock or open source projects. I am also open to other suggestions for this; I just ask that anything proposed hasn't been done in some relatively realistic way already, and it has to be cool

Some engine/propulsion concepts: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php#lantr

Round Robin Rasters

I love Raster Prop Monitor. But it's missing some stuff; Science experiment manager, Remote Tech integration/Interface, and many other mod integrations. This would be me extending Raster Prop to have....well, more!

Convenient Converters

Real Fuels not real enough? lacking some key modules? Convenient Converters is here to help! This mod adds all kinds of converters for matter phases and chemistry, some of which is still theoretical or impractical with current technology. Take Hydrogen Peroxide and split it into oxygen and water, then split the water with hydrolysis. The possibilities are endless!

Some preliminary ideas:

-Solid Oxide Electrolysis module (perform electrolysis on a variety of compounds)

-Boch reaction module

-

Figures Fraught with Fragility

The mysterious forces protecting kerbals have vanished! Now their muscles deteriorate without exercise, their insanity can reach critical mass, and that cramped pod is becoming a real problem! To make matters worse, Nitrogen seems to be escaping the cabin, and this pesky radiation thing seems to be making some of the kerbals sick!

This would be an add-on for TACLS or a similar LS mod, enhancing existing functionality.

A preliminary list of features include:

-Several new values for Kerbals, tentitively:

*Sanity - measure of mental stability. Impacts many aspects, and only a vague representation is available. (Good, Average, Poor, Deteriorating, Insane)

*Musculoskeletal - measure of bone and muscle density and mass.

*Health - The overall well-being of the Kerbal

*Condition(s) - specific conditions afflicting the Kerbal, including space sickness, home sick, martian feaver, Kommon Kold, Injured, critically injured, and more! Will read as just 'Nominal' when no conditions are present.

-entering new gravity wells helps Kerbal mental state, as does returning home.

-Kerbals don't recover instantly when they return to Kerbin, though they will recover over time.

-Kerbal Kare packages can be brought along which help their mental state

-Communications contact improves Sanity (via any dish active; if RT2 is present, it will impact this)

-Running out of food/water/air can impact Sanity

-

Custom Combustion Composer

Ever want to build your rocket engines yourself? Now you can! This mod would create procedural engines, where you choose parts and configurations of engines; cone shape, combustion chamber, cooling components, etc. Will it be accurate to real life? No. It will be a rough approximation, and the basics will apply to real life, but there is no way to make a completely accurate model of reality here. Also, this may be beyond my abilities to build, so I could use some help if I go down this path.

In regards to how I am thinking to work it though, I'm not going to make this using simplified end-results-oriented building. Here are my thoughts from preliminary research (into rocketry engineering):

-Will require Real Fuels initially, but I may add Stock support later.

-Procedural/Modular Liquid Rocket Engine (Liquid Biprop).

-A focus on realism whereby newer component options will supplant older ones over time (inferior options will be hidden by default, but may be enabled in settings)

-A secondary focus on balance/fun; KSP is meant to be fun. I love realism, but we play KSP (most of us) for fun first, and too much realism can become unfun.

-Pick individual engine modules:

*Nozzle (choose from different nozzle types such as DeLeval and Aerospike, with tweakable dimensions and shapes)

*Nozzle Constructions (Fixed shape, Variable shape, multiple skirt, fuel-preheating, etc with choices for materials, gimbaling, etc)

*Combustion Chamber (shape, material, size)

*Fuel Pumps (kinetic, electric, turbine, etc; optional)

*Preburner (optional)

*Alternator (optional, tweakable size and type)

*Preheater (optional)

*Compressor (optional)

-Clustering options

-Weight, Thrust, Isp, heat, and Cost procedurally generated

-Available propellants from Real Fuels based on design

-Engine shape, texturing, sound, and Fx procedurally generated

-Require higher pressurization of tanks for pump-less systems

Further post-release plans (a.k.a. things that I want to do but am likely to never have time for):

-Support for Engine Ignitor

-Support for Kerbal Mechanics and/or Dang It mods

-Throttle-based vectoring in multi-nozzle/cluster engines as option

-Procedural parts/modules for Solid, Hybrid(Solid/Liquid), Monoprop, Thermal, Electric(ion/plasma), Tripropellant(liquid/hybrid), Thermal Hybrid(heat+chemical)

-Procedural RCS parts for Monopropellant, Bipropellant, Electric, and potentially Thermals.

-Procedural Jet Engines for the AJE mod.

-Procedural Prop and Prop/Jet hybrids

-Procedural Orion and Nuclear Salt Water engines (optional)

-Procedural Pressurized Rocketry (non-chemical, non-thermal)

KOPERNICUS NAO!!!!

So, I love the idea of the Kopernicus mod, but it is taking forever to progress. I could lend a hand here instead of making new stuff, if my mods sound uninteresting.

The two parts I would lend a hand with specifically would be:

-Planet Factory config compatibility/converter

-Ability to add extra stars (similar to Star Systems)

Super Awesome (totally over-ambitious) Indie Game!

So, I am on a small indie team building something of a cross between Sim City, Factorio, Outpost, and Civilization: Beyond Earth. I should probably be working on it, but I felt like I could use a smaller project like a KSP mod xD. Ask if you want more details, or are interested in helping. (it's being built in Unity, with moddability in mind)

"Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad"

Awwww....I thought at least one of them would sound cool

Thank you for time and thought spent reading my rambling rhetoric! A final note; the more ambitious the project, the less of it I am likely able to finish in the short term.

Congruent Configurations

These aren't so much mods or add-ons as they are just some MM files and scripts which help certain mods get along better. Once they get some testing, I may move these to the releases forum.

KSPI-RF-TACLS

I've been working on a set of configs to end some of the incompatibility insanity between KSPI, RealFuels, and TACLS. This is the Module Manager config file so far. Feel free to report any issues with it! Uses MM 2.4.5 or higher, and RF 8.x.

RealFuels for all!

And here is an MM config which translates all stock-resource using parts from any mod that don't have RealFuels compatibility into RealFuels tanks. It's not as high quality as manual part-by-part configs, but it will always work (or should, anyway). Currently it handles parts with LiquidFuel, Oxidizer, and/or Monopropellant tanks. I will be writing up engine configs at some point, but they will be clearly inferior to proper engine configs. Uses MM 2.4.5 or higher, and RF 7.x, soon to be 8.x.

ModuleManager++

Just a language set I use for Notepad++ for syntax highlighting of ModuleManager files. Not sure if anyone would be interested, but I'll leave it here anyway:

downloadXML

Edited October 18, 2014 by dreadicon

[BFGfreak]

First off, I think you'd get much better attention if you labeled your poll a little less whimsically. Secondly we could definitely use more rasta...I mean raster modules, this in addition to how many kerbal life mods fail to see the light of day makes me think you should probably get your foot in the door with raster screens and when you feel a bit more comfortable with the inner workings of KSP you can try some of these other suggestions.

[dreadicon]

First off, I think you'd get much better attention if you labeled your poll a little less whimsically. Secondly we could definitely use more rasta...I mean raster modules, this in addition to how many kerbal life mods fail to see the light of day makes me think you should probably get your foot in the door with raster screens and when you feel a bit more comfortable with the inner workings of KSP you can try some of these other suggestions.

Thanks for the feedback, I likely did get a bit carried away with the alliteration, lol. Unfortunately I doubt I can change the Poll now. Decent point about experience, I will keep that in mind. I'm also hoping people might take interest in some of these things and, if nothing else, strike up discussion about them. It's hard to work in a vacuum, after all.

[randomness5555]

They all seem like good ideas to me. If you ever finish that indie game, post a link and I'll give it a go

[wasmic]

I voted Kopernicus. They do seem like they need some help over there.

[dreadicon]

Thanks for support, all! Looks like Convenient Converters is quickly dropping out of the running (With only my vote on it; mostly because it would have been really easy )

Looks like Round Robin Rasters is in the lead, followed by a tie between Figures Fraught with fragility, Combustion Composer, and Kopernicus Nao.

I have gotten PMs about FFF and my indie game, and a post about RRR. Unless I get some help with CombComp, it's likely to be pushed to the back of my queue, unfortunately. For now, I am fiddling with Raster Prop and Kopernicus, and doing preliminary research for FFF. I plan to wait till at least KSP .25 is out to see if any additional Kerbal APIs are exposed which could make it easier.

Thanks for the support so far all! Any and all feedback and/or help is appreciated!

[montyben101]

Why not help the guys at the CSS mod (see sig)

[dreadicon]

Why not help the guys at the CSS mod (see sig)

I'm actually not much of a fan of space shuttle mods like this one; they focus on replicating reality and usually end up with parts that are only useful in one configuration. Which means the whole craft may as well be a single part. Might be fun to use once or twice, but dynamic or less specialized parts can be used for many, many constructions.

[Fraz86]

I've been wanting something like "Figures Fraught with Fragility" for more than a year now. Unfortunately, there seems to be some kind of curse surrounding sanity/fitness mods. Many have been conceived and attempted, but only one has ever been released (KeepFit), and it died quickly and frankly wasn't very good. That said, if you're up to the challenge, I do believe this represents the single largest unfilled niche within the KSP modding community.

[SkyHook]

I, the AAA (Anti-Alliteration Agent), think the buildable engine thing is great!

[Kolago]

Custom Combustion Composer is needed! This together with RealFuels and RSS would be a blast!

- Differen engine types, Thrust <-> Size, TWR <-> ISP, Fuel <-> ISP

- Thrust 0 - 50000

- Size 0.625 to 10m

- ISP Liquid Fuel Engines 200 - 450 ISP

- ISP Mono Fuel Engines 180 - 300 ISP

- ISP Nuc Engines 400 - 900 ISP

- ISP Ion Engines ? ISP

- Real Fuels support

- Real Solar System support

- Engine Shrouds

- Cluster engines

- Engine sounds

- Engine effects

- Tech Level support

- Cost

[NathanKell]

Yeah, we do have the code to make decently realistic engine performance.

[dreadicon]

I, the AAA (Anti-Alliteration Agent), think the buildable engine thing is great!

Hey SkyHook! I am a fan of your work. Yeah....I may have gone a bit overboard with the alliteration xD I hope to push out all of these eventually, but till I get some help, about all I can do is plan for the Combustion Composer due to the complexity (procedural geometry kinda scares me a little....)

Custom Combustion Composer is needed! This together with RealFuels and RSS would be a blast!

- Differen engine types, Thrust <-> Size, TWR <-> ISP, Fuel <-> ISP

- Thrust 0 - 50000

- Size 0.625 to 10m

- ISP Liquid Fuel Engines 200 - 450 ISP

- ISP Mono Fuel Engines 180 - 300 ISP

- ISP Nuc Engines 400 - 900 ISP

- ISP Ion Engines ? ISP

- Real Fuels support

- Real Solar System support

- Engine Shrouds

- Cluster engines

- Engine sounds

- Engine effects

- Tech Level support

- Cost

I agree it would be a blast, but as mentioned above, I'm fairly sure it's going to have a couple parts that are over my head.

In regards to how I am thinking to work it though, I'm not going to make this using simplified end-results-oriented building. here are my thoughts from preliminary research (into rocketry engineering):

-Will require Real Fuels initially, but I may add Stock support later.

-Procedural/Modular Liquid Rocket Engine (Liquid Biprop).

-A focus on realism whereby newer component options will supplant older ones over time (inferior options will be hidden by default, but may be enabled in settings)

-A secondary focus on balance/fun; KSP is meant to be fun. I love realism, but we play KSP (most of us) for fun first, and too much realism can become unfun.

-Pick individual engine modules:

*Nozzle (choose from different nozzle types such as DeLeval and Aerospike, with tweakable dimensions and shapes)

*Nozzle Constructions (Fixed shape, Variable shape, multiple skirt, fuel-preheating, etc with choices for materials, gimbaling, etc)

*Combustion Chamber (shape, material, size)

*Fuel Pumps (kinetic, electric, turbine, etc; optional)

*Preburner (optional)

*Alternator (optional, tweakable size and type)

*Preheater (optional)

*Compressor (optional)

-Clustering options

-Weight, Thrust, Isp, heat, and Cost procedurally generated

-Available propellants from Real Fuels based on design

-Engine shape, texturing, sound, and Fx procedurally generated

-Require higher pressurization of tanks for pump-less systems

Further post-release plans (a.k.a. things that I want to do but am likely to never have time for):

-Support for Engine Ignitor

-Support for Kerbal Mechanics and/or Dang It mods

-Throttle-based vectoring in multi-nozzle/cluster engines as option

-Procedural parts/modules for Solid, Hybrid(Solid/Liquid), Monoprop, Thermal, Electric(ion/plasma), Tripropellant(liquid/hybrid), Thermal Hybrid(heat+chemical)

-Procedural RCS parts for Monopropellant, Bipropellant, Electric, and potentially Thermals.

-Procedural Jet Engines for the AJE mod.

-Procedural Prop and Prop/Jet hybrids

-Procedural Orion and Nuclear Salt Water engines (optional)

-Procedural Pressurized Rocketry (non-chemical, non-thermal)

Yeah, we do have the code to make decently realistic engine performance.

Hey Kell! I agree, it's just a shame no one has picked this up yet. It is a big task though, I must admit! Thanks for chiming in your support!

[thorfinn]

I voted for the engine creator, but I would like to add that it would probably be most useful for jets. Chemical rocket engines don't have THAT much variability after all, besides thrust - especially in KSP world, where every engine is deep-throttleable so you don't need to fit its power to your payload very well (compared to real rockets that are only on/off most of the time). We already have dozens of engine packs that cover more or less all possible choices, I think, and many of the finer details of engine design would not impact the simulation much.

Jets, on the other hand, have a lot more variety: the difference between a general aviation turboprop and a futuristic precooled turboramjet is far bigger than that between a RL-10 and a RS-68, both in technology and in looks. Also, fitting an engine to a plane tends to be more finicky that choosing a rocket for a KSP stack. AND, you'd have your trail blazed by AJE already - and let's be honest, the AJE people are in dire need of some art input. Using the same B9 model for six different engines is not a great idea.

Edited September 30, 2014 by thorfinn

[Kolago]

Chemical rocket engines don't have THAT much variability after all, besides thrust - especially in KSP world, where every engine is deep-throttleable so you don't need to fit its power to your payload very well (compared to real rockets that are only on/off most of the time). We already have dozens of engine packs that cover more or less all possible choices, I think, and many of the finer details of engine design would not impact the simulation much.

For stock game this is true. But if you use Real Solar System, Realism Overhaul and Real Fuels than Custom Combustion Composer for rocket engines makes a lot more sens.

[dreadicon]

General Update; Thanks for your comments and thoughts thorfinn and Kolago! Discussion/feedback helps keep me engaged in these projects.

So, I've been playing with Kopernicus, and hit a wall with PQSMod handling. No one knows what the formatting for PQS should be, or even if the functionality exists in the scripting yet (disturbingly, not even Bryce). Soon as I get an answer there, I'll hopefully be able to continue working on helping with Kopernicus PF script handling.

Concerning Combustion Composer, I have been doing some informal research, but it's a pretty big task, and I still doubt I would be able to do it all myself. Most of all, I have no idea how I would generate the mesh dynamically the way Procedural Dynamics, Procedural Fairings, or Procedural Parts do. I may know a lot about C#, but how KSP handles display of models, and how to alter those in real time is black magic to me. I'll figure it out eventually, i'm sure, but all I can do for now is compile data on how rockets work and how to derive values and traits. A note on the matter of Rocket vs Jet engines; I am doing Rocket engines first as the principals are more straight forward, the concepts simpler, and the common use greater. Moreover, I want to get rid of all this part bloat, and engines are the last bit to contend with for Procedural Parts. That said, I do really like AJE, and will at some point extend it to include Jet Engines (if I ever can make it at all...)

Regarding Round Robin Rasters, I really should pick up my work on those again... I got a reply from the creator of Science Alert, and i'm free to base my work off his, which means a science display is 80% done already thanks to Rasterprop and Science Alert... Will probably wait for both to update to 0.25 first though.

Figures Fraught with Fragility has been vexing me; I have some ideas on how to implement it code wise, but the penalties seem....off. Any good ideas would be spectacularly difficult to implement so far (degraded performance, complex injuries, erratic behavior, etc). If anyone can think of good, simple numerical ways to handle penalties, i'm all ears!

Finally, I know it's not exactly on the list, but I have a set of MM configs which help some mods play nice, or add more options. (FusTek Karmony + MKS/OKS, RealFuels engine configs for Methane RCS, RealFuels configs for miscellaneous mods, and so forth). I might post those some time here, soon as I can update all of the relevant mods to KSP 0.25. These aren't in lieu of the mods in the poll; they are just little bits I do to make KSP mods play together the way I like, and I've been maintaining them for myself as convenient for a while now. May as well share

Speaking of 0.25, it's a shame x64 remains sketch at best. Was really hoping they'd be able to plumb it up relatively quickly. Or add an API for kerbals. Or for TechTree. Or anything pre-existing that still lacks proper API, for that matter. Ah well, at least we got a lot of other QoL updates.

[dreadicon]

Updated: I added the small MM config projects I have been working on lately in order to make RealFuels more universally compatible. Also some Notepad++ configs for syntax highlighting. Feedback appreciated on both!

[mattihase]

i can't decide, so many good ideas!

[Northstar1989]

Four issues I spotted in the config file so far:

(1) Ammonia, like Methane, also gets a density-change going from KSP-Interstellar to Interstellar+RealFuels. There might need to be a MM patch for that, like with Methane.

(2) If integrating TAC-LifeSupport and KSP-Interstellar water resources, the parts using "LqdWater" for elecrolysis, NTR propellant, etc. in KSP-Interstellar should use "WasteWater" instead of "Water". This way, water you just got from Eve's oceans is NOT immediately drinkable without purification... (TACLS includes a Water Purifier part) It would also allow you to electrolyze your grey-water for fuel without bothering to purify it first (the process of electrolysis removes any common contaminants, as it involves a liquid --> gas phase transition)

(3) If integrating TAC-LifeSupport and KSP-Interstellar, you need to do a bit more work on the TACLS side of things. Namely, the Sabatier Reactor in TACLS should produce "Water" and "LqdMethane" rather than "Oxygen" and "Waste". The Electrolysis unit should produce "LiquidFuel/LiquidH2" and "Oxygen" instead of "Waste" and "Oxygen" (depending on whether RealFuels is also installed) so that the hydrogen produced can be cycled into KSP-Interstelalr Sabatier reactors.

(4) I would suggest breaking the configs up by the mods they integrate. I.e. KSP-Interstellar+NearFuture should be in a different config file than KSP-Interstellar+RealFuels, or KSP-Interstellar+RealFuels+TACLS. This way, you respect the organizational conventions already in place of having a separate config file for each integration in the RealFuels configs files...

I'll also PM you these points to make sure you see them.

Regards,

Northstar

[dreadicon]

(1) Ammonia, like Methane, also gets a density-change going from KSP-Interstellar to Interstellar+RealFuels. There might need to be a MM patch for that, like with Methane.

the difference is about 11% density. It's on my to-do list, but a low priority.

(2) If integrating TAC-LifeSupport and KSP-Interstellar water resources, the parts using "LqdWater" for elecrolysis, NTR propellant, etc. in KSP-Interstellar should use "WasteWater" instead of "Water". This way, water you just got from Eve's oceans is NOT immediately drinkable without purification... (TACLS includes a Water Purifier part) It would also allow you to electrolyze your grey-water for fuel without bothering to purify it first (the process of electrolysis removes any common contaminants, as it involves a liquid --> gas phase transition)

I could see this. But it doesn't inherently purify the water as the resulting gasses could react with the liquid producing other gasses, not to mention accidental/natural shift to the gas state of the other contaminants. And what if the ocean has corrosive properties to the electrolysis equipment? The way I see it, the ISRU module form KSPI already has a water filter built in. The TACLS filter is just a stand-alone filter. I mean, the ISRU already has a mining unit for uranium, aluminium, ice, etc, and nuclear reprocessing, electrolysis, sabatier, and several other reactions. It wouldn't make much sense to lack a filter.

(3) If integrating TAC-LifeSupport and KSP-Interstellar, you need to do a bit more work on the TACLS side of things. Namely, the Sabatier Reactor in TACLS should produce "Water" and "LqdMethane" rather than "Oxygen" and "Waste". The Electrolysis unit should produce "LiquidFuel/LiquidH2" and "Oxygen" instead of "Waste" and "Oxygen" (depending on whether RealFuels is also installed) so that the hydrogen produced can be cycled into KSP-Interstelalr Sabatier reactors.

Oh yeah, TACLS has those. I always forget about them as I use Universal Storage. I'll just copy over the US configs when I get a chance.

(4) I would suggest breaking the configs up by the mods they integrate. I.e. KSP-Interstellar+NearFuture should be in a different config file than KSP-Interstellar+RealFuels, or KSP-Interstellar+RealFuels+TACLS. This way, you respect the organizational conventions already in place of having a separate config file for each integration in the RealFuels configs files...

I dont do this right now because of overlap. I use wildcard searches, which take longer to perform, so when the same change is needed for multiple mods, I just make the changes in the same search, but with conditions for the mods in question. Also, people prefer less clutter, and when a mod isn't present, the other MM patches for mods that aren't present do nothing. I'll break it up if it gets too big though. I broke off the RF config because it's pretty heavy-handed, and some people might not want it. Unlike the other configs which only do good things far as I can see. And they are organized in the file itself, so easy to edit.

Regarding the change I made to tanks, I am doing exactly what regex suggested already; I modify the TANK_DEFINITION configs and add a new TANK module to each that has Kerosine (because if it can hold Kerosine, it can hold water in pretty much the same way). I use a wildcard search so that every tank definition that has kerosene gets the change, with only a few lines of code.

Finally, don't worry about the multiple configs issue; MM has config application ordering, so I can always just set my configs to take place after the RF ones.

Let me know if you come across anything else!

[Northstar1989]

the ISRU already has a mining unit for uranium, aluminium, ice, etc, and nuclear reprocessing, electrolysis, sabatier, and several other reactions. It wouldn't make much sense to lack a filter.

So then logically, the KSP-Interstellar ISRU system should just be able to go straight to work on electrolyzing WasteWater without needing a separate TAC Life Support filter part to do this. If you're not going to change "LqdWater" to "WasteWater" with KSP-Interstelalr installed (and want the Kerbals to actually be able to DRINK what the KSP-I ISRU system takes in without further filtration), then clearly the ISRU refinery's filtration system should be able to handle a little Urea in Kerbal WasteWater...

So I suggest adding a MM patch to allow the ISRU refinery to also utilize WasteWater for electrolysis, if that's possible...

I dont do this right now because of overlap. I use wildcard searches, which take longer to perform, so when the same change is needed for multiple mods, I just make the changes in the same search, but with conditions for the mods in question. Also, people prefer less clutter, and when a mod isn't present, the other MM patches for mods that aren't present do nothing. I'll break it up if it gets too big though. I broke off the RF config because it's pretty heavy-handed, and some people might not want it. Unlike the other configs which only do good things far as I can see. And they are organized in the file itself, so easy to edit.

Regarding the change I made to tanks, I am doing exactly what regex suggested already; I modify the TANK_DEFINITION configs and add a new TANK module to each that has Kerosine (because if it can hold Kerosine, it can hold water in pretty much the same way). I use a wildcard search so that every tank definition that has kerosene gets the change, with only a few lines of code.

Finally, don't worry about the multiple configs issue; MM has config application ordering, so I can always just set my configs to take place after the RF ones.

Let me know if you come across anything else!

Whatever works then. As long as NathanKell and Regex will accept it into the RealFuels base-release as an integration config...

Don't forget about what I pointed out regarding the KSP-Interstellar Meth/LOX engine though- it really should have a higher ISP and better TWR so as to match its real-life analog (the Space-X "Raptor"). Since NathanKell/Regex won't accept this into the base release of RealFuels, though (they want to keep engine tweaks in the engine configs), it needs to go in the "Stockalike" config as a separate file...

If you're confident that having two separate files with MM patches to the engine won't cause a problem, then just go ahead and make the file nothing but a fix to that engine. But if it's going to cause issues, then I suggest stripping any mention of the Meth/LOx engine out of the base config, and kicking everything (including the changes in resources consumed) over to the "Stockalike" engine config (and possibly the other ones if they're Interstellar-friendly?)

Finally, don't forget that NathanKell decided to delete the old/outdated RealFuels/KSP-Interstellar integration config from RealFuels v8.1, and is waiting on the newer one we are working on. So the config you eventually send over (I'll try and help test it, by the way) needs to have all the fixes that were in the old config as well, such as using LiquidH2 instead of LiquidFuel in the Hydrogen NTR and electric engine fuel settings (don't forget there are TWO types of thermal rocket nozzle in Interstellar now- a conventional one and a magnetic version: each will need its own MM patch AFAIK), and the fixes to the Interstellar Meth/LOX fuel tanks to be modular or hold the RealFuels equivalents of their resources...

One other thing- a brief tangent unrelated to everything else. I have begun a community Career Mode playthrough (where players give their input on what mission I should attempt next). Feel free to stop by the discussion thread and drop some ideas- the link to the main thread can be found by clicking on the text at the top of the discussion...

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/97427-Announcing-Northstar-s-Collaborative-Kerbal-Career-Campaign-Where-to-first

Technically that's not *ENTIRELY* unrelated, because I am playing with both KSP-Interstellar and RealFuels installed on that game. But it only uses Release 8.0 of RealFuels and my patches from earlier, until we can get a better integration config finished which I can use (and which will allow me to update to RealFuels v8.1)

Regards,

Northstar

Edited October 19, 2014 by Northstar1989

[dreadicon]

So then logically, the KSP-Interstellar ISRU system should just be able to go straight to work on electrolyzing WasteWater without needing a separate TAC Life Support filter part to do this. If you're not going to change "LqdWater" to "WasteWater" with KSP-Interstelalr installed (and want the Kerbals to actually be able to DRINK what the KSP-I ISRU system takes in without further filtration), then clearly the ISRU refinery's filtration system should be able to handle a little Urea in Kerbal WasteWater...

So I suggest adding a MM patch to allow the ISRU refinery to also utilize WasteWater for electrolysis, if that's possible...

I suppose that's true. Ultimately though, I'll deal with it if I feel like doing so at some point. I still want some hard science that says Electrolysis can opperate under contaminatied and possably corrosive conditions before I allow it to use wastewater. And not just 'it makes sense'; but rather actual scientific research.

Don't forget about what I pointed out regarding the KSP-Interstellar Meth/LOX engine though- it really should have a higher ISP and better TWR so as to match its real-life analog (the Space-X "Raptor"). Since NathanKell/Regex won't accept this into the base release of RealFuels, though (they want to keep engine tweaks in the engine configs), it needs to go in the "Stockalike" config as a separate file...

If you're confident that having two separate files with MM patches to the engine won't cause a problem, then just go ahead and make the file nothing but a fix to that engine. But if it's going to cause issues, then I suggest stripping any mention of the Meth/LOx engine out of the base config, and kicking everything (including the changes in resources consumed) over to the "Stockalike" engine config (and possibly the other ones if they're Interstellar-friendly?)

Raptor's in charge of the stockalike configs for engines. Raptor has some specific sets of config values he uses (he's got spreadsheets and what have you). If you are interested in realism, there's always the Realism Overhaul configs ;P

Finally, don't forget that NathanKell decided to delete the old/outdated RealFuels/KSP-Interstellar integration config from RealFuels v8.1, and is waiting on the newer one we are working on. So the config you eventually send over (I'll try and help test it, by the way) needs to have all the fixes that were in the old config as well, such as using LiquidH2 instead of LiquidFuel in the Hydrogen NTR and electric engine fuel settings (don't forget there are TWO types of thermal rocket nozzle in Interstellar now- a conventional one and a magnetic version: each will need its own MM patch AFAIK), and the fixes to the Interstellar Meth/LOX fuel tanks to be modular or hold the RealFuels equivalents of their resources...

My configs should be done minus the fuel tank parts and traditional style engine parts that KSPI provides. Which while I plan to configure them sooner or later, really aren't necessary, as I've configured RealFuel tank configs to allow water, which was the only resource it was missing. If you have an interest in getting the engine configs pushed through, I recommend you talk to Raptor. I'm done adding new stuff for the moment.

[Northstar1989]

I suppose that's true. Ultimately though, I'll deal with it if I feel like doing so at some point. I still want some hard science that says Electrolysis can opperate under contaminatied and possably corrosive conditions before I allow it to use wastewater. And not just 'it makes sense'; but rather actual scientific research.

How's this for research on electrolyzing human wastewater (urine). Apparently, it's a rather common solution to reclaim the hydrogen from urine- in the Urea itself (the primary component of urine- the other compounds in it are very minor, aren't corrosive, and don't interfere with electrolysis), and not just in the water component.

I'm afraid you're missing the main point of that post, though, which is that the ISRU refinery already has a water filter capable of usage for Eve's (likely heavily chemical-contaminated) oceans- so it should be able to work fine for human (Kerbal) urine, which isn't really all that nasty (or chemically-contaminated: I don't know why you would think any chemical in a mammal could be "corrosive" in the concentrations excreted- if it were it would eat through the bladder long before making it out of the body...)

I'm a biologist in real life, and one of the things biologists study is the human excretory system. So you're speaking to somebody with training in the subject you want to know about.

Raptor's in charge of the stockalike configs for engines. Raptor has some specific sets of config values he uses (he's got spreadsheets and what have you). If you are interested in realism, there's always the Realism Overhaul configs ;P

The whole point of the Stockalike configs (besides simply converting the resources used) is to implement realistic TWR and ISP values. Almost beyond a reasonable doubt, he simply missed the Raptor-analog engine (hey, play on names!) in KSP-Interstellar.

It should probably be a relatively simple task to draw up the ModuleManage patch for the Deinonychus, considering I already provided all the numbers needed in several different places... (the real ISP and TWR values, thrust need not be changed in "Stockalike" as long as the TWR is corrected...)

Once again:

Interstellar's "Deinonychus 1-D"

Thrust 1425 kN (thrust does not vary with atmospheric pressure in stock engine module)

Mass 3500 kg (for the record- what TWR is that?)

ASL ISP 309 s

VAC ISP 368 s

Space-X's "Raptor"

ASL Thrust 6900 kN

VAC Thrust 8200 kN

Mass Unknown (but TWR predicted likely to exceed 120)

ASL ISP 321 s

VAC ISP 380 s

My configs should be done minus the fuel tank parts and traditional style engine parts that KSPI provides. Which while I plan to configure them sooner or later, really aren't necessary, as I've configured RealFuel tank configs to allow water, which was the only resource it was missing. If you have an interest in getting the engine configs pushed through, I recommend you talk to Raptor. I'm done adding new stuff for the moment.

There's *only one* traditional engine in KSP-Interstellar (despite my attempts to convince FractalUK to implement a smaller, lander-style version of the Raptor/Deinonychus- which wouldn't actually have a real-world analog besides some investigation into using one for the Altair lander infrastructure...) so it shouldn't be all that hard to implement such a small fix if you understand Module Manager. I *don't* however, so I can't really do it too well myself.

I've already posted about it several times on the "Stockalike" engine config about the Deinonychus/Raptor, but it seems Raptor86 is far too busy to get around to it. Since we were already engaged in creating a KSP-Interstellar/RealFuels integration config, and the integration won't by any means be complete without this one last fix to the engine-mass (Stockalike fixes TWR values by altering engine mass rather than engine thrust) and ISP values of the Deinonychus to match the Raptor, I would *strongly* suggest you work it in with Raptor86. I would do it myself, but once again, I don't understand how to write ModuleManager engine patches... (so as to overwrite engine mass and ISP with new values)

Other than that, it's just a matter of breaking up and organizing the configs where possible/appropriate (I understand you re-used some wildcards, but this didn't seem to be the case for *ALL* the mods fixed in the config last I looked at it), and then sending them over to NathanKell (for the main config fixing fuel tanks) and Raptor86 (for any changes to engines, including the resources consumed- we don't need to preserve the error of fixing the Meth/LOX engine resources in the base mod any more...) as appropriate.

And, of course, I'll let you know if I spot any more problems that still need to be fixed for integration.

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

@Dreadicon

It doesn't appear NathanKell has done anything with the config yet (did you send it to him?), so if you haven't sent it to him yet (or even if you have) there should still be plenty of time to institute any other fixes (like more accurate Ammonia conversion- though no idea what you meant by that before, as RealFuels already has a version of Ammonia with realistic density, and the config *should* replace the Interstellar Ammonia with the RealFuel version...)

An, of course, I'd still like to see somebody kick a fix for the Raptor Engine over to Raptor831 in the "Stockalike" engine config. NathanKell also doesn't want code for the DT-Vista or Aluminum-Hybrid engine in the base RealFuels mod any more, as far as I can tell (and I agree, it really doesn't belong there), so you'll need to kick those fixes from the main config to the one you send Raptor831 as well (the fixes were already implemented in the old/outdated config, they just need to be preserved/ carried over)

Regards,

Northstar

[dreadicon]

@Dreadicon

It doesn't appear NathanKell has done anything with the config yet (did you send it to him?), so if you haven't sent it to him yet (or even if you have) there should still be plenty of time to institute any other fixes (like more accurate Ammonia conversion- though no idea what you meant by that before, as RealFuels already has a version of Ammonia with realistic density, and the config *should* replace the Interstellar Ammonia with the RealFuel version...)

An, of course, I'd still like to see somebody kick a fix for the Raptor Engine over to Raptor831 in the "Stockalike" engine config. NathanKell also doesn't want code for the DT-Vista or Aluminum-Hybrid engine in the base RealFuels mod any more, as far as I can tell (and I agree, it really doesn't belong there), so you'll need to kick those fixes from the main config to the one you send Raptor831 as well (the fixes were already implemented in the old/outdated config, they just need to be preserved/ carried over)

Hey Northstar,

I made a pull request to Kell like 4 days ago which was accepted next day. He just hasn't released it yet; it's all in the main RF repo as we speak.

Regarding Vista and Hybrid, I was wondering about those. They were already removed from the repo, but I wasn't aware they needed to not make it back in. I worked up configs for them anyhow which were accepted into the RF repo along with the general config. It did seem off, but then, so does all the NTR and ElectricPropellant config changes. So I figured they were just weird edge cases. I'll see about dealing with those sooner or later if no one picks them up.

Regarding Raptor's configs, I quite honestly find engine configs tedious and irritating. No good way to automate them, or make them elegantly with current tools. Part of why I have the procedural engines on my Kerbal Mod Building Bucket-list. I'll see about the engine configs, as I said, when I get around to it. Not like I am getting paid for any of this

My most recent obsession has been space planes, and by proxy, the Procedural Wings mod, which I am trying to build an addon for with solar panel-covered wings and wings which carry fuel.

Finally, i'll be frank as to why I haven't made configs for the KSPI ISRU to have full water functionality: It's a big magic 'I-can-do-everything' box (maybe scientifically accurate magic box, but none the less, a magic box). KSP is about design and engineering to me, so when a mod adds a simple cylinder which does 10 jobs (many of which are relatively unrelated), I consider it a poorly implemented part. Yet another idea on my WAY too long list is to fork the code from Karbonite and make a realistic ISRU alternative. But again, really long list......

Configs beyond RealFuels I always considered extra, and I'm not sure how much faith I have in Raptor's pack going forward anyhow; it's been lagging behind RF, and other mods even more so. It still doesn't have Methane configs for tons of parts which it logically could/should, and Raptor expressed little to no interest in electric RCS configs or in integrating the Near Future configs into the pack. Speaking of, I should really write up a config for RF for those....

I have played maybe 6 hours of KSP this whole week, and havent even had time to upgrade to 0.25 yet on my personal build of the game! So, I intend to enjoy myself this weekend, and maybe squeeze in some time writing code/configs and updating my personal copy of KSP xD