The Grand 0.25 Discussion Thread

[problemecium]

I did that actually and it seemed to make it worse, as the SRBs are not throttleable, which causes the center of thrust to drift further from the center of mass. Maybe I need to try it differently though, so I'll give it a few more attempts and report whether it helps.

[CalculusWarrior]

Yeah, the Learstar required manual adjustment of the liquid engines' thrust levels in order to fly straight for me, and then I ended up crashing it when I came in for a landing (it does not do well at low speeds). It's not the best craft out there, but hey, it's a stock space shuttle!

[weeble]

The new space plane parts don't really fit that well to each other. Like if you try to connect the MK3 to MK2 adapter then add on MK2 parts the pieces aren't even the same shape! And another thing is that when it was a mod they had additional menu's where you could add heat shielding for people with DRE now that's gone too.

I wish Squad would stop adding parts from mods. There's no point in it. If you want the parts install the mods

[Jetski]

So just beat the game in Hard mode without leaving Kerbin SOI. Actually, I haven't even landed on the Mun or Minmus. Just got some base sci/rep from a few flybys, set one strategy to max $$$/no rep, made some $$$. Had a low rep at this point, set a strategy to max rep/no sci, got 12K on the next parts test. Then set a strategy to max sci. Did 2 parts tests, 20K sci each. So sci is maxed. Now have unlimited $$$ from future missions, maxed tech tree, and perfect rep. WTF Squad? This feels like an exploit. Maybe some balance is in order?

[Vallius]

Overall, I am loving the update. Some of my favorite new features (small and large) are:

1. I'm really happy to report that click-though of the Flab menu in the VAB has finally been fixed! Can't tell Iyou guys at SQUAD how happy that minor fix makes me.

2. I'm really enjoying the new uses for the Alt key in the VBA and SPH, finally can get those parts aligned!

3. The admin building strategies finally give me a way to cash in my ridiculous reputation--For Science!

----[N] Of course now science is ludicrously easy, especially since my existing career mode defaulted to normal mode, where no funds are needed to unlock parts.[/N]

4. And of course, I love the SP+ parts. If I wasn't so afraid of blowing up the runway and killing kerbals I'd be going nuts with space planes.

On the other hand, there are a couple of things that are... odd....

1. Am I the only one who notices that the flags at KSC don't wave anymore? This isn't so much a complaint as an observation. Perhaps adding a destructible flagpole made it too buggy to have the flag wave?

2. While it's perfectly reasonable to have the runway and the Launchpad be destructible, is there any way to make them less touchy to just loading the vehicle?

3. Yep, I'm also seeing some spontaneous kerbal flights. Haven't tried EVA's in space yet--but I'll keep you posted with what I observe.

4. Hard mode might need to be rebalanced a bit for the contract rewards. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a challenge, but many of the contracts are actually a detriment to my space program now. ----They cost far to carry out than I could possibly recoup, and nil science or reputation.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Vallius

[Franklin]

The new space plane parts don't really fit that well to each other. Like if you try to connect the MK3 to MK2 adapter then add on MK2 parts the pieces aren't even the same shape! And another thing is that when it was a mod they had additional menu's where you could add heat shielding for people with DRE now that's gone too.

I wish Squad would stop adding parts from mods. There's no point in it. If you want the parts install the mods

The shape issue might be a different vertices count for the SP+ parts vs. the Squad parts. If one's using 24 and the other 30 you're going to see some poor blending. I hope Squad addresses these down the road with an art pass, because the incongruent standards of their models is pretty commonplace and embarassing at this point. Their admin building is full of incongruences, too.

The heat shields were removed from the parts atlases because [as of right now] KSP doesn't have re-entry damage, and they wanted to make the parts top-bottom symmetrical so you could use them right-side up or upside down seamlessly. I agree with this art change, and hopefully when they introduce re-entry damage they'll have a more creative way of adding ablative shielding than a simple part texture.

The mod pool is Squad's greatest, cheapest resource for things to add to their game. Why rebuild the wheel when you can get it pre-built, pre-tested and pre-approved by the community for nothing? If it's clunkly and poorly received it's not Squad's fault, it's just a ....ty mod and not added to stock. If it's well made and well received? Squad adds it to stock and are praised for their decision without real penalty. If anything I'd like Squad to add more mods, because some are amazingly good, like RoverDude's Airbags.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Franklin

[ahappydude]

The mod pool is Squad's greatest, cheapest resource for things to add to their game. Why rebuild the wheel when you can get it pre-built, pre-tested and pre-approved by the community for nothing? If it's clunkly and poorly received it's not Squad's fault, it's just a ....ty mod and not added to stock. If it's well made and well received? Squad adds it to stock and are praised for their decision without real penalty. If anything I'd like Squad to add more mods, because some are amazingly good, like RoverDude's Airbags.

Cant agree more, dont get me wrong you got a great team devs but many parts or mechanics that were made by modders were then later "made" or incoperated by you. Atleast give credits for your inspiration

[Synthesis]

Good thing I moved my .24.2 save over today, I didn't figure the release of .25 to be this week. At least now I can finish my clean up missions before moving on to .25, and mods will get a chance to get updated as well.

Wait...is there a way to move 0.24.2 saves over?

I was able to enter the KSC on mine, but every orbital object seemed bugged (0.0 m/s velocity), as did the space tracking center.

[Rithsom]

Not only does the Admin Building look out of place, but that entire chunk of the KSC does. The grass slopes that go down to the terrain are a lot more steeper there, and the road that surrounds the building is partially on them.

[Virtualgenius]

@MescudiBarton are you trying as a pristine install

[Vanamonde]

So just beat the game in Hard mode...

That's not really the way to play KSP. There is more to do after having cleared the tech tree than before it.

[Franklin]

Not only does the Admin Building look out of place, but that entire chunk of the KSC does. The grass slopes that go down to the terrain are a lot more steeper there, and the road that surrounds the building is partially on them.

Given the guy who [re-]did the other buildings even commented on the model incongruencies when the building was first previewed on the blog and they still didn't make the adjustments boggles me. I keep telling myself it's alpha, polish comes later, but at some point you gotta ask if your art guys give a damn about standardization.

[firegeek83]

Great job with .25 Squad!! The inclusion of Porkjet's mod was a great touch (kudos to Porkjet as well!). Is there any chance that you'll use any other mods that Porkjet has created, like the Habitat Pack v0.4 or even additional cargo bays for 1.5m & 2.5m in cylinder form?

[Sky_walker]

The shape issue might be a different vertices count for the SP+ parts vs. the Squad parts. If one's using 24 and the other 30 you're going to see some poor blending.

Wasn't it a whole point of re-modelling these parts - to make them more consistent with generic parts?

Cause it right now seems that these new stock parts are more compatible with B9 mod parts than any other stock components.

That's not really the way to play KSP. There is more to do after having cleared the tech tree than before it.

Objectively speaking there's more to do in career WHILE going through the tech tree than before or after it - even solely for two reasons: playing with limited pool of parts is more challenging (therefore you put more work in bypassing the limits while at the same time not being crippled by lack of energy sources for interplanetary flights as you are before starting the tech tree) and you have fun unlocking techs - which isn't available once you're done with the tech tree.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Sky_walker

[Glubo]

Hi, was there any changes to parachutes? I have deadly reentry and FAR enabled and i was used to be able to deploy chutes under ~800m/s. Now they will immediately break if i deploy them with speed >~250m/s, no difference on altitude.

[tater]

The whole career paradigm is wrong. The tech progression is arbitrary, and bizarre in some cases, and the contracts are repetitive, and often silly (and not in a fun way for the latter). Sliders of rewards does not mean good difficulty modification, IMO. The preset levels seem picked at random, without testing. "Hard" is absolutely not hard unless you manage to blow up a lot of rockets (something that seems unlikely in "replay" by anyone familiar with the game).

While you can construct a challenging difficulty level by cranking sliders to the left, since their scaling is simple, it makes little sense. Getting paid less for a "contract" than it costs to do it is not a business model given that the rewards will never change in game… you take your business plan to the bank or VC guys and tell them that you'll lose money on every contract, and your business is scoring contracts… see how that works for you.

The difficulty level should be scaled by the contracts, IMO, not exclusively funds/rewards. Once again, a "career" game needs to have a point, a story, a driver (even if the direction is set by the player). Failure to do this makes career a sort vaguely hobbled (temporarily) sandbox mode. Simple proof, is there anything that you cannot do in career than you can do in sandbox after X hours of play? That X might vary, but once you hit it, the game is exactly sandbox, not sandbox-like.

[dnugroho]

Hi, was there any changes to parachutes? I have deadly reentry and FAR enabled and i was used to be able to deploy chutes under ~800m/s. Now they will immediately break if i deploy them with speed >~250m/s, no difference on altitude.

Yeah I noticed that too. Deploying parachutes at high speed > 200 m/s will mean certain death to Kerbals now. It was not like that before.

[Shania_L]

Ok, Im just looking into these strategies, exchanging between the 3 "currencies", funds and science are obvious, but what does reputation do? is there any point to amassing a high reputation level?

Would it be a good idea to just burn reputation as I earn it to convert directly into one of the two 'useful' currences?

[problemecium]

When you guys say "deploying" parachutes, I presume you mean just releasing the "semi-deployed" skinny parachute, right? Because having the whole thing unfurl at 200 m/s will indeed tear up pretty much any ship and has done so for several versions now, if not since the beginning.

The semi-deployed chutes aren't causing any trouble for me, incidentally.

[kanelives]

So what I want to know is .25.1 when?

[LukeStrike]

You know what ? I just don't care. And I will try to explain that with some (but not all) points:

1° Your game is SLOW ... did I say slow ? Nope, I said VERY VERY VERY SLOW, and thus, VERY BORING:

- loading time is slow

- switching between screens is even slower

- who did the interface ? just to leave the game you have to: 1) go to space center SLOW 2) exit the space center SLOW 3) in the "main menu" (you call that this way ?) do back SLOW 4) click exit game SLOW and *enfin* 5) confirm you want to quit SLOW again ... are you kidding ?

- same for launching the game ... 1) start the game SLOW 2) select start game (oh yes ?) SLOW 3) resume game SLOW 4) select one of your saves SLOW and *enfin* 5) launch the game you just wanted to continue SLOW (is it normal to take at least 1 min to show up a splash screen such as the KSC which is just a picture with some "clickable zones" ?)

Do you know that in every game the first principle is easy launch and easy quit ? That means that when you run KSP you should have a menu displaying "continue last game" (or whatever) and when you press for example the escape key a "save and quit" ... do you know that ? I think you don't.

Same for settings ... why can't we change ALL the settings (keymappings etc) once ingame ? Let's say ... give me a try ? I loose.

And the most important thing is since your "last version" (0.24 aka, 64bits) it is even worse. I have a MSI GT70, with full ram, 4xcore etc) and it just DO'NT WORK. It takes minutes (real minutes) to move a Kerbal from a place A to a place B, distance ? Yep, 5 meters, let's say. Same for vehicules, ships, etc. Do you think poeple love that ? I do not.

Instead of trying to improve the performance of this game you did the wrong, so point 2:

2° seriousely who cares about contracts and money ???

- I do not pretend to be right but for me and if you follow a LOT of KSP vids on YT, you will see that the principle is to have fun, to builds rockets, to explore muns and planets, to have orbital stations, docking stations, bases, and test and try different concepts within the game physic (such as some stange copters and so on)

- You just broke all of that when including contract (what contracts ? there is NOBODY on Kerbin except the space center ? did you see "towns" or "factories" elsewhere ? Nope, I don't)

- Who cares about money ? Are you an american biznessman or what ? What a lot of us was A DREAM, can you understand ? A lot of us dream about visiting planets, the galaxy, or why not other galaxies (see the Scott Mandley videos for example on YT) ... Do you really think that "money" is in count of that ? Poor guys :/

I play KSP in (old) career mode. That means I have to collect science. It is fun, a challenge, and so I do not have "all my cards in my hand" at the begining. But your contracts and your money ? Sorry, I don't want that, I just want to experiment and explore, and make my own ships, and base, and pilot skills, hoping that one day I will be able to share that with others (waiting for multiplayer)

3° the community

- did you realize that without all the community and their work and mods your "game" is just "unplayable" ? Without for example MechJeb ? Or any navball improvements, any addons to build your craft in VAB ? Any plugin that allows you to save games, select a target (targetron for example), ways to display and transfer resources and/or crew etc ? Not spoking about multiple usefull parts, and of the resources mechanism (such as KAS, Kethane, Launchpad, etc) so:

- what did you did for them ? NOTHING. At the worse you did nothing. At the best you did the worse. You moved to "curse", I do not know if it's a financial impact for you, but, if it's the case, it's a shame. I tell you.

- Why ? Because you are loosing a lot of poeple beleaving in you. Let me explain this:

---

KSP is the BEST space game ever known (and I think it, I've been trying a lot of, no success, and I will NOT give their names)

It is the best because you can really make your very own ship, customize, travel, make plans and bases, forget something,get crashed, or, at least do what you wanted to do) ... I do not like space games where you have a limited number of "pre-designed" ships and all you have to do is changing their weaponry, shields, etc ... no way

But, if I have advices:

1° improve the global game performances (is is normal to slow down to 1 FPS ?)

2° forget the money and contracts

3° say thanks to the modders, and please, offer a tool such as Nexus Mod Manager (why to not call them ?) which is really a GREAT tool to manage mods

4° say double thanks to the modders, because without them (and also the youtubers) your game is ... lost (that will be a pitty)

SY

LKS

[Whackjob]

- did you realize that without all the community and their work and mods your "game" is just "unplayable" ? Without for example MechJeb ? Or any navball improvements, any addons to build your craft in VAB ? Any plugin that allows you to save games, select a target (targetron for example), ways to display and transfer resources and/or crew etc ? Not spoking about multiple usefull parts, and of the resources mechanism (such as KAS, Kethane, Launchpad, etc) so:

Begging your pardon. Many of us play vanilla. Totally sans mods. And we do fine. I've done some of my best work completely modless. And I have a grand time of it. I'm sorry, but I can't take this complaint seriously at all. You've flavored the game to your taste. That's fine. But not all of us like the ketchup and pickles on there. We just eat as is.

[kanelives]

Also we don't all need mechjeb to fly. apparently the pleb version is censored. lol

[Shogun Gunshow]

Outsourced R&D is ridiculously powerful while some other options are ridiculously weak. Using Outsourced R&D, a simple early-game rescue mission (so-and-so stranded around Kerbin) can net me almost a hundred science with an extremely minimal 10% commitment. Compare that to Fundraising Campaign, where a commitment of 50% gets me practically jack-kay-....: a successful Explore Mun mission nets me a grand total of 1152 extra funds. Whoop-de-freakin'-do.

[juanml82]

(snip)

1) You can exit the game at any time pressing alt+F4. That said, the interface should really have several improvements and include stuff like KAC and some Targetron/Haystack analogue. As for performance, some people would say it's a Unity problem due the lack of multithreading, but I wonder why the game needs to calculate physics on static ships. If you are approaching a base or a space station in a stable position with hundreds of parts and your ship's exhaust isn't hitting the base/station, why bother calculating physics at all?

2) You don't, some people do. If you don't like it, you have sandbox or science sandbox.

3) Yes, there are mods that are essential and should be included in the game. I don't know what's the issue with Curse. I like the idea of Nexus Mod Manager. However, I think mods are often simple to install and uninstall - the problem comes with mods that relay on other mods as dependencies, as those have several separate folders. If I'm installing Karbonite, I may not need the ORS folder either. But if I want to keep Karbonite but remove another mod that uses ORS, I would need to remove parts of the ORS folder. B9 installs four or five folders. It can be done: check the mod's zip file, check the files included, remove them. But some sort of uninstall feature should be included. Some modders install their mods in a folder with their name first, so you don't see at a glance which is the mod.