Good news everyone! KSP enters Beta version. What you like the most, what you don't?

[Dodgey]

@Sky_Walker

I don't mean infastructure in the terms of constructing a new base that's part of the terrain, I mean having to have specialized miners, transporters, refineries, instead of just one mega roving doit all. For example you can't use a mining drill if a refinery part is on the same craft. Wishful thinking I know. Maybe it's because I would prefer it to be complex instead of drop dead simple.

[Sky_walker]

@Sky_Walker

I don't mean infastructure in the terms of constructing a new base that's part of the terrain, I mean having to have specialized miners, transporters, refineries, instead of just one mega roving doit all. For example you can't use a mining drill if a refinery part is on the same craft. Wishful thinking I know. Maybe it's because I would prefer it to be complex instead of drop dead simple.

Game would need to create a logical reason for such things to exist - and I hardly can think of any if there can be only one player-controlled vessel.

[Jon Tash]

I wonder if the parts that Novasilisko made a long time ago will be used for the New Resources system.

[timsfitz]

I am very excited about the planned features and am very happy with where things are going. My biggest want was some more end game material and refuelling and now we are getting it.

Some thoughts on the simplified refueling system...

One possibility is refuelling stations operated by NPC Kerbals where you dock your ship and refuel, but this costs the player money. The further out the refuelling station, the higher the cost for fuel. The stations could be player built possibly, maybe the more modules, the more fuel they have, or can produce.

Another simple idea is that only one type of fuel can be mined. Maybe uranium for the nuclear engine. Just a couple modules. Miner and refiner. Maybe you can mine asteroids, special ones maybe.

Lastly, another possibility is an orbital refinery that only works in close proximity to Jool.

Could be other possibilities.... Just some thoughts on "simple" systems with few new parts.

[KerbMav]

I am not sure if most of the poster getting excited about the refueling mechanism mistake it for the ressource system that was shelved - reading Harvesters post gives me the strong implication that it will not be anything like it.

Regarding "just copying mods" - go try and tell an original story, something really new, that has never been told in any form before. At some point the big numbers of mods will have some overlappings with features planned long ago but not implemented until now/next year.

Harvester also said that KSP will continue to be open to modding, because they know that they neither can nor want to implement every possible feature, they want to deliver a complete game with features compatible to each other.

About DLCs ... damnit, I was to late by only a week last year!

But I do not see Squad doing it the same way as ... that other company ... or else we would have 1.0 last year, with docking, half the planets, science and budget being singular addons at half the price of the original game.

[Walker]

Regarding "just copying mods" - go try and tell an original story, something really new, that has never been told in any form before. At some point the big numbers of mods will have some overlappings with features planned long ago but not implemented until now/next year.

Exactly, I can't imagine that the devs would say "we will not do reentry heat - because there already is deadly reentry mod and we would be afraid to copy it".

[John FX]

For myself, the vanilla game is very... empty. It looks very low quality compared to an install with just EVE for example.

The mods make the game for me, YMMV. What we can all agree on though is that mods are here to stay and the vanilla game will be what entices new buyers.

This suggests making vanilla more exciting for people who are not hardened space nuts as we have already bought a copy, hehe.

Myself I would assume a good thing to know for the direction to take the game would be `What percentage of mod users find mod X useful` as opposed to how many downloads they have or secondary info like that. Then the most useful mods could be considered instead of the most downloaded (they may be different mods)

I`m really surprised we don`t have a stock alarm clock for example or Dv/TWR readout (if only in the VAB/SPH) or the ability to set action groups after launch, or clouds even. If we are supposed to just make the rockets and experiment, why show us the fuel levels or weight of the parts? Why let us make nodes with a Dv readout? There is a lack of consistency in the game that could be addressed.

Multiplayer can wait for me TBH, even though I would like it. I don`t really see any benefit apart from cool factor. I`m glad it`s an `after 1.0` thing.

DRE and life support are `ways for your mission to fail` which may not be so good for new users but might work as options for more advanced players. I can see why they might be things included much much later or even left for mods. I use DRE myself and enjoy the extra planning it requires from me but I`m hardcore so I love that. Not everyone wants most of their first rockets to just fail.

KAC for me is like the leap from `you can only fly one mission and not save` to `you can fly as many missions as you like and they are all saved` Engineer is like the leap from not knowing how much fuel remained in your craft to being able to right click your tanks and RasterPropMonitors is just a totally needed addition to IVA. You feel like you are in a spacecraft rather than not.

It`s that important.

SQUAD, please consider secondary mods for inclusion into the stock game that don`t affect physics but improve the experience. I applaud the full throttle key and the plans to include a form of editor extensions, FAR, and kethane/karbonite (I love karbonites orbital collector, it`s all I use, hint hint). These are very good additions sorely needed to core gameplay. To me the logical extension of this would be to include features from Kerbal Alarm clock (very well done), Kerbal Engineer (also very well done), and maybe RasterPropMonitors (really improves immersion). For `pretties` clouds are fairly mandatory...

Sorry if this is a threadjack but It`s something I wanted to say regarding the future.

[Kar]

These kind of assumptions are really, really annoying. Not only do you by your post assume how everybody, or at least the majority wants to play the game, you also dictate how they in any case should. I'm not even gonna pick out examples from your post, all you really need to do is re-read it.

I didn't say everyone should play the game like I say. The point is, that, KSP is a game where you run your space program. Until now, if you play stock, (and stock is good, already saw many people doing amazing things with stock parts) there aren't many options for a strategy game in terms of running a space program. So, by this logic, the game should be accurate in Newton laws and the same time it shouldn't ?

I know Squad have a plan laid out for the development of the game, they must follow it, or at least, follow it 80% of time. The interesting thing is the imagination of what people consider to be realism or not. I bought the game because I want realism, stock KSP do not provide me that. Besides the so called "physics" that we already know they are working of that part, there are more things I consider realism. Life support exist in any space mission. People have breath, eat, and do other things that probably get censured here , thats why I use mods. I'm not saying I do not like the stock game, or that is not good, but for me it lacks content and many other things. I know it's a game in development so I'm sure, Squad will improve the game, probably next year by this time we are all having a blast playing KSP.

Mods, for me, are to be used to give me a sense of realism in space exploration, I do not use mods to get the Enterprise on space for example (even if it is a cool mod), or any other mods that defeats the purpose of realism the game offers and the realism that I'm after.

If people want to play the game with no money, just science or in sandbox with no mods, that's fine by me. Everyone should play the game the way they like more. I'm just saying the game should provide more options for the ones that want more realism and a harder game. The 0.25 was a big thing for me, it added something already missing, difficulty levels and customization. The Administration building also was a great implementation for the ones (like me) that like to play career mode.

I understand the game needs to have a balance for hardcore players, casual players and, lol, crazy players that wants to blow up stuff and trow Kerbals in the air!.

[skeevy]

I didn't like that there was no mention of Unity 5. A sentence that said "One thing that might delay the final release would be updating KSP to Unity 5 if their beta is released on a schedule that works with our plans." Unity said that the 5 first public beta would be released in 6-8 weeks...7 weeks ago.

But other than that, can't really say that I'm upset about the future of KSP. Squad seems to be doing the best that they can and we have an awesome scene of modders that fill in the gaps that Squad hasn't done yet or doesn't plan on doing.

If I had to pick features I'd want in 1.0...they would be EVE, BA5, Custom Biomes, Kerbin Side, More Planets, Deadly Reentry, Real Chutes, FAR, FireSpitter, B9, Karbonite, and TACLS....or...things to make KSP pretty, things to give us more places to go, things to make flying and aerodynamics better, more space plane and plane parts, a way to get resources, and life support systems.

That said, 0.26 or 0.90.0, whatever version it'll be, sounds pretty awesome and addresses some of what I'd like added to KSP.

(I'd really appreciate a 0.25.1 to address the current EVA issue if 0.26 is gonna take a while)

[Alshain]

I hope they add more music before scope complete. Really I think they should just buy from/hire Bagel Rabbit's works (if he's willing). They really are a perfect fit.

[Dodgey]

Game would need to create a logical reason for such things to exist - and I hardly can think of any if there can be only one player-controlled vessel.

I've got a couple of ideas however I feel that they are too limiting or too complicated. In anycase wishful thinking as I said.

[Norpo]

I really like the planned resource system, while many will probably disagree with me (and rightfully so) I think that it'd make some interesting solutions to otherwise no-win scenarios, I just hope that they make the modules heavy, so it's not just a "slap on and forget until you need it" kind of thing. It should be an integral part of the mission, and not just a thing you put to the side.

I could see it unbalancing some things if not implemented right, but they did say it would be endgame content. It'd also make planetside bases more independent from Kerbin, all that needs to be shipped once you get the resource modules there is the hardware, space tugs, ships, etc, as well as MAYBE a new resource harvesting module, if they could break or become inoperable.

It'd be interesting to see if there were certain engines you couldn't get the fuel for, or if most engines wouldn't work with the harvested resources. That way it'd require more planning, perhaps, and become less of an end all solution to "i'm lost in space but I have a resource harvesting module how do I get home", it'd be interesting if it wasn't just harvesting liquidfuel/oxidizer mixes, but also another fuel, let's call it Spaceium, just in theory, and there were some engines that could only run on Spaceium, or tanks that could only have Spacium?

Also, this raises another opportunity, harvesting resources/spacium in space, and bringing them back to kerbin. If this was possible, how effective would it be? Would you just sell it automatically for funds, or would it be added to an inventory of sorts where you could actually fill up tanks with the deep-space fuel/spacium? Or, more complicated, adding it to an inventory with the additional possibility to sell it? These could all be interesting gameplay mechanics, although it'd be hard to balance.

I'm most excited for the resource harvesting, if only for seeing what squad will actually do with it.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Norpo
oops

[magnemoe]

I bet that are not going to be much more content. After the bugs are cleaned and everything working well, expect to start spending money on DLC's to add more stuff and content to the game.

I hate DLC's. Everyone in the gaming industry are starting to annoy me, they release "finished" games, then after 1 month you get a a lot of DLC's.

If this will be the case, then I hope Squad, instead of getting the Steam DLC system, open a online shop at their site. I prefer to buy from them, then from steam.

Yes, this is major new features who changes gameplay, adding new parts even an new planet don't change gameplay.

Pretty sure we get something like near and kethane.

[boxman]

More like bad news if you ask me... This to me confirms what I said earlier this year that it seems like they have decided to rush towards release. Once it is in beta there really wont be much added, and it currently needs quite a few things. And on top of this it seems like they even gave up on multiplayer which was supposed to be the last feature they added before it was "scope complete"

[boxman]

I hope they add more music before scope complete. Really I think they should just buy from/hire Bagel Rabbit's works (if he's willing). They really are a perfect fit.

Or even better... let us add our own music so that we can set whatever music starts playing in space or in the VAB/SPH.

[Sᴄɪɴᴛɪʟʟᴀᴛᴏʀ]

I really wanted at least one other star system to be in the game before 1.0, I didn't get the impression that there would be from the Beta article.

Nearly everything else I want from KSP has already been created by the talented modding community or has already been announced by Squad to be in production relatively soon.

[Alshain]

I really wanted at least one other star system to be in the game before 1.0, I didn't get the impression that there would be from the Beta article.

Nearly everything else I want from KSP has already been created by the talented modding community or has already been announced by Squad to be in production relatively soon.

I think that was on the list of things almost nobody expected to happen before scope completion. I don't think it will happen after either, I just don't feel like that is one of the things Squad intends for this game based off of what has been said in the past.

Or even better... let us add our own music so that we can set whatever music starts playing in space or in the VAB/SPH.

That would certainly work too, but you should have a default playlist.

[tater]

More like bad news if you ask me... This to me confirms what I said earlier this year that it seems like they have decided to rush towards release. Once it is in beta there really wont be much added, and it currently needs quite a few things. And on top of this it seems like they even gave up on multiplayer which was supposed to be the last feature they added before it was "scope complete"

They cannot do anything without the cash register ringing.

Getting KSP out the door makes sense, then additional features should be a paid add-on, IMO. Continuous game development requires a continuous income stream. It's rather a lot to expect infinite development for the cost of a single dinner at a halfway decent restaurant.

[Arsonik]

The most simple of "features".... Please please please please.... Let me change my keybinds from in-game. Video options would be nice to, but not as important. Why can I not access this menu from in-game (in-flight/anywhere other then main menu)? Others and myself included have mentioned this many times before. Make it happen please.

[LethalDose]

Ok, so now that we pretty much know what's going to be in version 1.0 - share what you like and what you don't.

Like

• New aerodynamics
  
• Deep Space Refueling - after denying it for months - finally it arrives! Some proper end-game content, a reason to build planetside bases, whole universe of possibilities...
  
• Multiplayer pushed after 1.0
  

Dislike

• Well, they basically announced 2 features, and... that's all. I was sort of expecting bigger announcement for that huge "1.0 post" that was mentioned on twitter earlier on, came out it's huge mostly because of explaining things that were already explained (don't get me wrong though - it's very good that devs wrote down Q&A and this whole detailed explanation of what's going to happen)
  

Cautious

• For me deadly reentry was always part of a proper aerodynamics modelling. But I know relatively few people share my point of view, so I'm most curious if developers decided to include deadly reentry in the change of aerodynamics or not. I hope so...
  
• Life support.... still hard to tell if it'll be in or not. Nearly every mod treated it as a resource, so it'd make perfect logical sense to include it while implementing Deep Space Refueling (you refuel your spacecraft and you refuel your crew ).
  

I think the OP has some good points. I agree that re-entry heating is part of proper aero-modeling. With the new difficulty sliders, it should be easy to include re-entry heat and life support as stock options instead of add-ons. However, even if life support options aren't added, a stock system for resource collection should make it vastly easier for modders.

They said they're adding new content. I desperately hope that means, at least in part, more planets in the outer system.

It sounds like multiplayer has been pushed to 1.0, not past it.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

0.90.0

Strange number. There is no need to bump version to something with nine just because they enter beta. :-O

Beta versions are often numbered starting at 0.90. Not always, but it's not uncommon, for the reason that it's basically meant to show "we're close but not quite there yet"

I think the OP has some good points. I agree that re-entry heating is part of proper aero-modeling. With the new difficulty sliders, it should be easy to include re-entry heat and life support as stock options instead of add-ons. However, even if life support options aren't added, a stock system for resource collection should make it vastly easier for modders.

They said they're adding new content. I desperately hope that means, at least in part, more planets in the outer system.

It sounds like multiplayer has been pushed to 1.0, not past it.

They clearly haven't decided on a final list themselves, so obviously it not being listed doesn't mean it won't be there. But having said that:

They made it clear they won't be adding realism for the sake of realism, and both Deadly Re-entry and TAC life support, at least as they stand right now, are a pure "adding realism to make the game harder and for the sake of realism" mods. I'm sure some people find them fun, but I'm not sure how many new players will like the game with all their kerbals dying due to lack of oxygen or burning up in the atmosphere. We have mods for it that advanced users can use. I'm not sure how much of a reson there is to force those features on less experienced players unless they are greatly altered or scaled back.

More like bad news if you ask me... This to me confirms what I said earlier this year that it seems like they have decided to rush towards release. Once it is in beta there really wont be much added, and it currently needs quite a few things. And on top of this it seems like they even gave up on multiplayer which was supposed to be the last feature they added before it was "scope complete"

Did you read the post? Your thing about "it seems like they even gave up on multiplayer" suggests that you didn't read it, or not very well.

Edited October 16, 2014 by FleetAdmiralJ

[Sky_walker]

It sounds like multiplayer has been pushed to 1.0, not past it.

let me quote:

"MP is planned for after 1.0."

Getting KSP out the door makes sense, then additional features should be a paid add-on, IMO. Continuous game development requires a continuous income stream. It's rather a lot to expect infinite development for the cost of a single dinner at a halfway decent restaurant.

Agreed.

[xtoro]

I'm willing to bet that FAR, NEAR and/or DRE will be included in 0.90 to improve the aero because Squad likes to use other people's hard work to improve their game instead of doing it themselves.

-snip-

Edited October 16, 2014 by KasperVld

[Andrew Hansen]

I'm quite excited about the official confirmations (well sort of, with disclaimers of course) that we're going to have resources and better aerodynamics after 0.90.0, but I'm a bit concerned that this may be happening a little too early.

I mean, beta means that the core systems are already in place, and that new content can be developed for those systems. However, resources and better aerodynamics would require a lot of new code to implement, and there's no placeholder systems in KSP for them at the moment (for aerodynamics there is, but new aerodynamics will require a total rewrite). There's also other things that will hopefully get implemented that have no placeholder systems (or require complete rewrites) currently in the game, such as life support, water physics, clouds and enhanced visuals, weather, and of course multiplayer.

If beta actually means that the core systems are all in place already, then that's bad news and means we won't be getting much of the above mentioned things (besides the officially mentioned multiplayer, resources, and aerodynamics). I'm perfectly fine with KSP entering beta, and I honestly think that it's stable enough to be considered beta, but I don't believe that development should stop for core systems.

Of course, even if development does stop for core systems, we have lots of mods to choose from already and KSP has been so worth it to buy, so I'm not missing out on anything. It would just be nice to know that core development hasn't yet ceased.

[Kar]

I'm willing to bet that FAR, NEAR and/or DRE will be included in 0.90 to improve the aero because Squad likes to use other people's hard work to improve their game instead of doing it themselves.

-snip-

So, it seams that my previous posts were not exaggerated when I said something about Squad "copy" mods to implement on the game or in future releases. Guess I'm not the only one thinking like that....

Edited October 16, 2014 by KasperVld