[1.3.0] OPT Space Plane v2.0.1 - updated 29/07/2017

[Virtualgenius]

Hi @ozion22 people will help you resolve your issue if you provide a little bit more information, for example " I am using a windows pc and I installed it through ckan and I cant see any of the content when I start the game" we need to know how you installed it, whether its a mac or windows, how many mods you have installed and whether you tried it with a vanilla build and just that mod. when all that fails you will need to provide some logs so that the Gurus can tell you exactly whats happening. Hope this helps

[ozion22]

I have a PC and installed it from spaceport and i have No other mods installed. I Cant see Any content when i start the game.

Edited April 1, 2017 by ozion22
Autospell

[stali79]

2 hours ago, ozion22 said:

Well then where should it be if i installed it in the wrong place.

logs? Modlist?

 

6 hours ago, TDplay said:

Been playing a few mins, really great mod! I can't wait to get into the real meat of the mod. C'est la crème de la crème de la communauté (sorry, I just had to use french, that means "It's the cream of the cream of the community"). I'm gonna use this to make supply SSTOs to my transfer vehicles, then down to the bases.

Question: Any chance of USI-LS integration anytime soon? (e.g. have the cockpit automatically store Supplies and an empty tank of Mulch if it's detected)

Also, I haven't found any real use for the K fuselage other than fitting on Dark Drives. [EDIT] Talking of dark drives, it's very "interesting" stuff that comes out of the exhaust.

I know it supports TAC-LS

[King Something]

The landing gear in B9 is back, thanks to Kerbal Foundries. Any chance that the OPT wheels might make a return?

[Starwaster]

5 hours ago, ozion22 said:

Well then where should it be if i installed it in the wrong place.

When you open the downloaded OPT file, it contains two folders and an installation instruction text file. Both of those folders must be copied to your KSP folder. (the folders are GameData and Ships)

If you copied them to your GameData folder then parts won't load correctly. You can determine if you did that by looking at your KSP folder and opening up the GameData folder. If you find ANOTHER GameData folder inside then you have installed incorrectly. You must delete or move (not copy) that to your root KSP folder. (your root folder may be named something else like Kerbal Space Program. It is to that root folder that you needed to install the contents of the downloaded file)

[stali79]

1 hour ago, King Something said:

The landing gear in B9 is back, thanks to Kerbal Foundries. Any chance that the OPT wheels might make a return?

@K.Yeon originally scrapped his gear in favour of ALG, but he did mention to me a while back that he may do some in fuselage parts with integrated gear in them.

[King Something]

9 hours ago, stali79 said:

@K.Yeon originally scrapped his gear in favour of ALG, but he did mention to me a while back that he may do some in fuselage parts with integrated gear in them.

Interesting. I quite like that idea, as it sounds like it would make it a little easier to get landing gear on aircraft to line up properly. The only potential downside is that it's impossible to put the landing gear in the Goldilocks Zone -- the gears will be too high for some aircraft designs and too low for some other aircraft designs.

ALG is included in KF, along with a bunch of other interesting wheels, so there's no real reason why airplane, spaceplane, and rover designers shouldn't download it.

As far as the old OPT wheels are concerned, maybe add them to a future legacy pack update? Incidentally, B9 has their landing gear set up to require KF in order to show up (no KF means no landing gear)

[stali79]

1 hour ago, King Something said:

Interesting. I quite like that idea, as it sounds like it would make it a little easier to get landing gear on aircraft to line up properly. The only potential downside is that it's impossible to put the landing gear in the Goldilocks Zone -- the gears will be too high for some aircraft designs and too low for some other aircraft designs.

ALG is included in KF, along with a bunch of other interesting wheels, so there's no real reason why airplane, spaceplane, and rover designers shouldn't download it.

As far as the old OPT wheels are concerned, maybe add them to a future legacy pack update? Incidentally, B9 has their landing gear set up to require KF in order to show up (no KF means no landing gear)

The issue with the old landing gears is that they are based on the old collider system and as such need their colliders completely redone which is beyond my ability.

[King Something]

5 minutes ago, stali79 said:

The issue with the old landing gears is that they are based on the old collider system and as such need their colliders completely redone which is beyond my ability.

The KSP Wheel API might help.

I can't guarantee that it WILL help, since I am not a modder (nor do I play one on TV), but it probably will help. The B9 and ALG landing gears were also based on the old U4 collider system, and they work properly in 1.2.2 thanks to Shadowmage's sorcery. No need to create new colliders ex nihilo thanks to this tool -- still not easy, but it's at least easier.

If you can't do it for lack of skill, maybe someone else can?

[Magnavox]

@K.Yeon I've been looking at the parts pack in reference to my comments earlier and I think I've found where the problem lies. The issue is not with the center of lift being too far forward, it's with the center of gravity being too far back. In short your parts are too light when dry. When you build a ship with OPT parts and then add standard engines to the aft. The engines are so massive in comparison to the extremely lightweight hull parts that the DCOM shifts all the way to the rear of the ship. In fact I've started adding J type drone cores to all my planes just for ballast.

Some notes to support my theory inside the spoiler as not to force them on everyone else.

Spoiler

Using the MK II cockpit as a reference part here. 2.00t dry, 2.06t wet, crew 2, heat shielded component with reaction wheels and built in batteries.

The K type cockpit is 1.02t dry. 9.1t wet. Crew 10 -- 5 times the size of a MK II cockpit and half the mass dry. 

The J Type and both versions of the J-QS02 have identical stats. cockpit is 0.397t dry, 3.41t wet, Crew 5 -- 2.5 times the size while also being 1/6 the mass

The OPT J-HT (my favourite) 0.506t Dry, 4.5t wet, Crew 2 -- Same crew. 1/4 the dry mass.

Your fuel tanks have the same basic problems. Comparing the 4m MK II Rocket fuel fuselage, which is 800 units, 0.57t dry, 4.57t wet, vs the J type 4m tank, which is 3000 units, 1.873t dry, 16.86t wet. The MK II tank is 0.71kg/unit where the J tank is 0.624kg/unit. That's dry mass divided by units 

Just doing a spot check shows that most of the OPT parts average out to around 0.62kg/unit or there abouts. 

It may be that you need to adjust the dry mass of the parts, particularly the cockpits.

On the flip side, the OPT J Linear Aerospike engine, which I want to like a great deal, is 850ish KN thrust for 7.9t mass. It's too heavy for it's thrust.

8x T-1 toroidal aerospike engines (1t each, 150ish KN each) mass only slightly more, produce 1224 KN thrust ASL, although they do cost slightly more.  This means that almost every stock engine in the game has a better thrust/mass ratio. Yes, the Linear Aerospike does have better ISP, but not enough better to warrant it's mass.

 

[StahnAileron]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 0:21 PM, King Something said:

The KSP Wheel API might help.

I can't guarantee that it WILL help, since I am not a modder (nor do I play one on TV), but it probably will help. The B9 and ALG landing gears were also based on the old U4 collider system, and they work properly in 1.2.2 thanks to Shadowmage's sorcery. No need to create new colliders ex nihilo thanks to this tool -- still not easy, but it's at least easier.

If you can't do it for lack of skill, maybe someone else can?

It's not magic. ALG was eventually picked up by KF when BahamutoD left KSP modding due to real life. I believe they were given access to the original assets to make the wheels. You have to completely re-rig the models themselves to make them work in KSP. Pretty much anyone touching wheels/legs in KSP either had to do a lot of work to get to work in 1.1.x and up (Necrobones' LET mod comes to mind), just flat out gave up (K.A.X.), or have postponed any updates (I'm not sure what M2X will do about the MK2 landing legs it used to have.)

You'd need a modeler to get the modle in order before you can do anything with plug-ins (as far as I know, KF/KSPWheel is not a drop-in replacement for anything. And even if it were the Unity4 to 5 update broke everything about wheels, so you need a re-rig regardless.)

And the ALG from KF is a LITTLE quirky. (Mirroring is a little odd in regards to directions of the wheel motors: one of them apparently needs to be inverted. And the mounts backwards by default compared to what I'm used to from the original ALG.) Still, I'm glad to have them back. Stock gears are kinda fugly. (Though I do kinda miss the old stock small gear.)

[KSPNoob]

Is the J Science Lab and OPT 2.5 Phoenix cockpit suppose to have a finished interior or is it still under development?

Edited April 9, 2017 by KSPNoob

[stali79]

58 minutes ago, KSPNoob said:

Is the J Science Lab and OPT 2.5 Phoenix cockpit suppose to have a finished interior or is it still under development?

A lot of IVAs are incomplete

[KSPNoob]

3 hours ago, stali79 said:

A lot of IVAs are incomplete

Thnx, wasn't sure if something was messed up or if just not incomplete.  Looked for a patch note or something about it but couldn't find anything.  Still love the mod, one of the best and can't wait till the Science Lab is complete.

[Space Kadet]

I have a few different opt spaceplanes half way through ! Great fun!

 

[stali79]

9 hours ago, Space Kadet said:

I have a few different opt spaceplanes half way through ! Great fun!

 

nice work dude!

[JadeOfMaar]

That video was full of good stuff indeed. It's a little tempting to me to make my clone engines consume a portion of Karborundum. On another note, last night I addressed my personal problem of lame joint strength between OPT's parts, especially the Humpback hulls and pylons. I'll share that code here when I can as I'm not home right now.

To any interested parties... I will also deliver USI LS configs. Heads up: the parts I intend to add Supplies tankage (or converter powers) to will be stripped of all ability to hold fuels. Those FS and IFS configs are a mess (to me) already with my having two "Next Fuel" and "Prev Fuel" buttons per part.

[stali79]

3 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

That video was full of good stuff indeed. It's a little tempting to me to make my clone engines consume a portion of Karborundum. On another note, last night I addressed my personal problem of lame joint strength between OPT's parts, especially the Humpback hulls and pylons. I'll share that code here when I can as I'm not home right now.

To any interested parties... I will also deliver USI LS configs. Heads up: the parts I intend to add Supplies tankage (or converter powers) to will be stripped of all ability to hold fuels. Those FS and IFS configs are a mess (to me) already with my having two "Next Fuel" and "Prev Fuel" buttons per part.

I am wondering if we should just pick FS or IFS for fueling and scrap the other, thats why you get 2 sets of fueling buttons

[JadeOfMaar]

For me it would be as simple as: If IFS is installed use that because IFS > FS. The introduction of USI complicates things a bit as USI uses only FS for resource switching.

[JadeOfMaar]

Here's my joint strength patch. I realized that (assuming all, from the few I looked into) breakingForce is declared with a low number like 600 but breakingTorque is not declared and whatever its pre-calculated value is, is not satisfactory to me. It's not a problem with J body, but Humpback needs it badly. If this doesn't work for you then bump the numbers to 2000. No need to go insanely high here as doing so may cause phantom forces. Unless...you're into that kind of thing.

@PART[*]:HAS[#author[K.Yeon]]:NEEDS[OPT&!KerbalJointReinforcement]
{
	%breakingForce = 1200
	%breakingTorque = 1200
}

 

[Bluebottle]

On 8/04/2017 at 5:37 PM, StahnAileron said:

And the ALG from KF is a LITTLE quirky. (Mirroring is a little odd in regards to directions of the wheel motors: one of them apparently needs to be inverted. And the mounts backwards by default compared to what I'm used to from the original ALG.) Still, I'm glad to have them back. Stock gears are kinda fugly. (Though I do kinda miss the old stock small gear.)

Not just "a little". Try using KAS to connect a plane using ALG to anything else, and if you don't immediately get explosions or bizarre, highly destructive bouncing, you certainly will upon scene reload. All my planes include normal landing legs too, for this reason: taxi using ALG, then deploy the legs and retract ALG before KAS hook-up (on any body with gravity higher than Minmus or Mun).

Edited April 18, 2017 by Bluebottle

[StahnAileron]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 10:36 AM, stali79 said:

I am wondering if we should just pick FS or IFS for fueling and scrap the other, thats why you get 2 sets of fueling buttons

Most fuel-switching mods I see usually prioritize one over the other if both are present. Typically B9PS, IFS, then FS. IFS is more or less a drop-in replacement for FS (you can just swap the module name and it should work, as I understand it.)

B9PS uses another methodology for defining tanks: you can create a tank definition like you do a resource definition and then the part can just refer to that. (Resource combination, ratios, and if needed, a density multiplier.) You just need to define the volume of the part directly. Nertea's fuel switching patches are very nice examples. (Using B9 shrunk his fuel patches in by a lot.) And I think FuelTankPlus support all three switchers with prioritization via HAS's. Its patch is another good sample to look at.

IMHO, FS is baseline, IFS recommended, and B9PS preferred. (As far as I can tell, B9PS makes long-term maintenance of a fuel switch patch for a whole mod easier as you just need to adjust one number in a part - the volume - and the references to your fuel tank definitions rather than individual numbers for each fuel tank type you want. That's what I gather from @Nertea wholesale switch to B9PS, anyway. His mods are on the same scale as OPT, so I imagine his decision to switch was a very practical one.)

[JadeOfMaar]

@StahnAileron If that's indeed how B9PS works then I should have known beforehand and started building my own tank-based mod on that. I'd have spared myself quite a lot of bother manually trying to weigh numbers and hoping I did a good job of it.

[StahnAileron]

5 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@StahnAileron If that's indeed how B9PS works then I should have known beforehand and started building my own tank-based mod on that. I'd have spared myself quite a lot of bother manually trying to weigh numbers and hoping I did a good job of it.

The funny thing is B9PS wound up doing something I once asked the IFS dev to consider. Probably just coincidence. (Or the B9 people happen to come across it; re-reading that, B9PS feels awfully similar to what I described... Though I have no idea when B9PS development started. I wasn't aware of it back then.)

But yeah: you define tank types, ratios, and names in one file. In the part file itself, you just define the volume and call the tank type you want by the name you defined. Nertea's mods have some beautiful fuel switch patches exemplifying this feature.

[tsaukn]

I'm having a bit of an issue, and I'm not sure if this is the mod causing it. I am attempting to build my first Space Plane, using the MK II parts. Including those big badass MK II dual engines for the back.

Now my issue. I hit the runway, throttle 100% and ... nada. I have full thrust, but the ship goes nowhere. Zero speed, it gets lighter until it starts pointing up... lol...

Not sure if this is an issue with this mod, as I'm not sure if the part is from the mod, wish I knew how to tell, but maybe someone has some advice. Thanks.