Is it time for modpacks?

[MaHuJa]

At the moment this is only at a stage of sampling opinions - figuring out if this is something to pursue or not.

Some advantages:

It will be the job of the modpack to handle the installation.

The removal of previous versions and getting everything placed where it belongs.

I would expect the "hordes" that can't install mods correctly to prefer a modpack that make it point-and-click easy.

A modpack can be naturally locked to a particular version of the game, pulling in a ksp update only when the updated version of the pack is available.

(And thus the updated version of the mods in the pack.)

This would - except for manual updaters who should be competent anyway - entirely remove the need for Compatibility Checker and similar.

The debacle that occurred in the popup blocker thread was all over this, and modpacks could do even more to solve this problem than CC ever did.

That's why this thread appeared right now.

Quality control

A team making a modpack can do organized testing on a scale that mod authors can rarely do themselves.

A quality modpack will ensure its mods play nice. This is especially time consuming when we're talking about making separate mods play nice together. If you have a full time job, this can take as much time as you'll have left for actually playing.

A modpack can have a policy that avoids mod versions that are experimental or that are known ahead of time will not be forward compatible. (Extraplanetary launchpads' new surveyed builds part)

In theory, this will keep the majority of players on stable versions that just work, rather than on the forums filling mod threads with support requests.

Quality feedback

The testing for the above may be done by people who are - or will become - practiced at helpful bug reports.

Known mod environment

The way mods interact with each other will tend to be more predictable, because most users will run a similar setup.

Memory usage accounting

A modpack can more strictly control ram usage, such that it can always be kept within safe limits.

Youtuber/streamer play-along

Imagine installing "The Manley pack", and downloading a save/craft file from the video description, and trying to replicate what he's doing.

(See also Direwolf20 of modded minecraft.)

Some challenges:

Scattered permissions authority

Case study: KAS.

- Published license does not permit redistribution in a modpack.

- KAS is a dependency for many mods (boxsat, universal storage, extraplanetary launchpad (surveyed builds in particular), etc)

- The copyright is split across several people.

- It is unclear if any one person has been given the authority to permit it.

- It is unknown who is still "reachable" for requesting its inclusion.

At least, the only parts that are needed as dependencies is the plugin, which has one author (assuming he can speak for interim maintainer's contributions) who has been present after 0.25

That means we would only lose the the winches unless we could contact them and they say yes, or someone else makes new ones for a modpack to use.

Curse's monetary rewards for clicks

- "Author Rewards: Earn reward points for your projects and redeem them for Amazon Gift Cards or PayPal payouts!"

- If people get it from a modpack instead, it could seriously cut into a revenue stream for an author.

Getting a "clean" game version for a pack

Let's say .90 has been released a couple days ago, and there is not yet a modpack for it.

A user wants to install modpack X, made for .25. How do we acquire the game files for it?

I suspect some cooperation with Squad may be helpful here.

Delayed releases

If you want to be on the bleeding edge, modpacks generally aren't for you. Unless you use it as a base and just add your personal touch on top.

The rest are "solved problems" meaning it'll just take somebody to actually do the work.

(Or did I miss something?)

What do people - and in particular, modders, who would make or break any such effort - think?

Edited October 24, 2014 by MaHuJa

[raidernick]

No it's not time for mod packs. There have been many many threads about this already. It's not going to happen and has been discussed to death.

[Ippo]

Eh, let's just say that this horse has been beaten to death and then well beyond that point. Short version: the majority of modders are against it, especially all the authors of the mods that you most likely would like to include. A search on this forum will show that each time this idea has been suggested, it has always been shot down in flames.

[MaHuJa]

Then my comment in the popup blocker thread will apply:

Most of the complaints aired by modders in this thread, could actually be history if the community went down that path.

It's a choice you can make.

If you choose to take it all on your own shoulders, then I'll respect your choice and not pity you over it.

[RoverDude]

And given your commentary in that thread, let me be the first to say that I will in no way support the addition of any mods that I curate in a modpack that you are even tangentially associated with, and would actively encourage others to follow suit, though I expect most will already.

[Ippo]

CKAN is going to make modpacks an obsolete idea anyway in the near future. Since it works as a package manager, the idea of modpacks will be superseded by meta-packages, so another discussion is going to be kinda pointless imho.

[raidernick]

CKAN is going to make modpacks an obsolete idea anyway in the near future. Since it works as a package manager, the idea of modpacks will be superseded by meta-packages, so another discussion is going to be kinda pointless imho.

Not going to stop people like him from refusing to leave and let lie unfortunately.

[tater]

As a dumb ole user, this would be awesome, of course. Didn't know it was a dead horse.

i wonder if there is a way to get some of this sort of functionality without making a mega-mod though...

for example a small app that would allow you to subscribe to mods, and it would simply swap the files into GameData (JSGME (we use that in Silent Hunter) will do the swapping already). The subscription bit I have not seen. You'd obviously have the stuff at a site that would dish latest a versions out. Then there might be a simple cfg that something like RO could provide that would subscribe you to the required constellation of mods. Nothing would change except the user not having to DL and extract manually.

Edited October 24, 2014 by tater

[RoverDude]

See CKAN, and publish a mod list. I'm all for mod lists.

[Ippo]

As a dumb ole user, this would be awesome, of course. Didn't know it was a dead horse.

Here is one recent thread made by a guy that was, in fairness, pretty responsible and definitely not clueless: you'll see how warm the reaction has been, generally

But yes, the system you described in the rest of the post is pretty much what CKAN will be able to do: it's currently in development, but I've been in touch with the guys and they are doing an amazing work. We just need to be patient, and then start nagging every modder for ckan support

[regex]

What do people - and in particular, modders, who would make or break any such effort - think?

Personally, I think people should put one together and try it; just ignore the thoughts and opinions of modders and content creators. Seriously, there's no reason to debate this, just do it.

[ferram4]

Yes, actually. Do it.

You can be responsible for all the support of each and every mod. Once you're redistributing a mod, it's your problem, not the mod creator's, and you shouldn't go out of your way to make it the mod creator's. Take on the responsibilities of redistribution and support, just like any other modder.

But you don't know how the mod works? Too bad, your problem now.

You found a bug that you want to report? Too bad, your problem now.

You want to help users, but you don't know what to say? Too bad, your problem now.

You don't have the time to provide full support and development to all the mods you're redistributing? Too bad, your problem now.

Go ahead, redistribute mods. And when users come to the threads of any of the mod authors and expect support, you should expect them to be rejected, because any mod author can't be expected to know what you've changed, how your pack is set up, or anything like that. It's your problem now. I'm sure this will make users quite happy.

[rdwulfe]

The best practice is to go with the wishes of the person who created or curates the mod. ESPECIALLY the creators of said mod, as they can revoke licenses if they see fit. They have creative control of their own works.

[regex]

The best practice is to go with the wishes of the person who created or curates the mod.

Nah, the only thing that matters is the terms of the license. We've gone beyond being polite and respecting each other in this community.

ESPECIALLY the creators of said mod, as they can revoke licenses if they see fit.

Not retroactively. Once you've given out rights you can't remove them. You can release future versions under a more restrictive license, however.

[Guest]

Amazing how this "solution" keeps relentlessly searching for a problem. 'Tis the season for zombies, I suppose.

[Starwaster]

Stop trying to make modpacks happen. It's not going to happen!