More scientific instruments

[boumbo]

Even after expanding the whole technological tree, scientific instruments are somewhat limited. What about adding some other instruments:

- Mass spectrometer : Rocks or gases sampling

- Drill: Sample soill without a kerbal (I think there is a plugin for that)

- Particle detectors

- Magnetometer

- Radiation detector: UV, Gamma....

- Solar wind, plasma detector

I know that biomes are going to be expanded in futures version, but maybe we could also have magnetospheres and particles flows ?

[sal_vager]

I'd love this, more science stuff please Squad!

And it'd be cool if there was something more than just a click and a report, I'd like to see an actual gravity map for each planet that you can only reveal via gravioli experiments for instance

[kiwiak]

Dmagic has most of these stuff.

But agreed, there shoudl be more stock science instruments.

[Vallius]

More science parts is fine, but I think I'd prefer it if SQUAD gave the existing parts more in game functionality.

....something more than just a click and a report, --- sal_vager

[Javster]

Yeah, personally I don't know what Squad were thinking when they made the science system. It's a really basic placeholder. Right click, do science, here's a message you've seen loads of times before, read that before we add a real science system.

[Tuareg]

Yeah, personally I don't know what Squad were thinking when they made the science system. It's a really basic placeholder. Right click, do science, here's a message you've seen loads of times before, read that before we add a real science system.

i've already said this will happen when they have announced science... just like now i say they will totally mess up kerbal experience and resources too.

[Tw1]

Yeah, personally I don't know what Squad were thinking when they made the science system. It's a really basic placeholder. Right click, do science, here's a message you've seen loads of times before, read that before we add a real science system.

Agreed. As I've written before, the points system doesn't make much sense apart from unlocking the tech tree. It doesn't yet give you much of a space exploration experience.

I'd like to see it improved a lot.

I've written about it in my blog thing, with some suggestions of how science could be broadened, flowing a number of ideas that I've seen floating around on these forums, things like science to a map, and splitting it into types. :

Doing science could be modified, made into three (or more like two) subsystems, to make this critical part of the game a lot more engaging, and rewarding.

Solar System Knowledge- Science where you collect Data to slowly build up an accurate picture of each planet, maps, atmosphere, mineralogy, etc, and the solar system, magnetic fields, radiation, solar wind, etc, which then could be accessed in the Editor to inform designs. Data is collected much like "Science" is now, through transmitting, and returning. It would be shown in the vessel recovery dialogue box in a similar way.

Research Levels, where you deploy probes, stations, bases, etc, to do on going experiments. This would be a point scoring system, but rather than a tally, these would be levels which rise and fall. Getting, and then keeping Research Levels high would be a boost to Reputation, (and through that, a boost to your budget, and available contracts).

These Levels would be dependant on how much your space program is currently contributing to science through on going experiments, on going monitoring (think solar wind measuring satellites, etc,), as well as the more instantaneous Data collection.

Ongoing Experiments would be done in a science lab. These would not go forever- some would have limited lives, or need resupplying. Different ones would be available, and cost money to run. The cost would offset one advantage- the penalty for having multiple experiments in the one place would be less steep, letting you build big research complexes. It is possible having certain science parts on your ship would be required to do some experiments though.

Monitoring equipment would be cameras, magnetometers, the thermometer, that sort of thing. These could break down, or need to be upgraded (technically, this would just be a replacement-upgrade would be the in-game reason for why the equipment is no longer contributing as much research) Having multiple monitoring systems on the same ship generally, would not be useful. To get more research happening, they should be in different biomes/orbits. Research will be higher when you first arrive at a new planet, and fall with time, but never become insignificant.

Monitoring would happen in the background, all the player needs to is activate them, land them, or put them on the right trajectory, leave them.

The parts used for the scientific Monitoring and Data collection would overlap where logical.

Research Levels could be subdivided into different types- Physics, Chemistry, Biology, etc, as well as the solar system Knowledge. However, unlike the others, the Knowledge one wouldn't rise and fall, only rise-providing a permanent boost.

Getting these to their full levels should be hard. Admin building strategies could be used to boost them.

Lastly- Experiment Contracts- Much the same as we have now, but also including contracts for experiments that aren't possible under the other systems. E.g- transmitting a radio signal while on the other side of the Sun to Kerbin to test Albert kermanstine's theory of relativity-

Where appropriate, the results from these would contribute to Knowledge, and temporarily boost the appropriate Research Level.

How would the tech tree fit into this?

The current science point thing works fine for unlocking that tree. It could stay the same, but the points renamed "Tech Points" or something like that.

They'd only be shown in relevant places.

What about asteroids?

Contribute to knowledge until you've found all types. Temporary boost to Research Level. Something that might be useful for a contract.

TL,DR version:

I'd break science into three things,

Knowledge- building up a picture of the solar system.

Research- Ongoing testing and monitoring.

Experiment contracts- for other, special experiments.

i've already said this will happen when they have announced science... just like now i say they will totally mess up kerbal experience and resources too.

I hope they don't. Kerbal experience could be good. I like KSK's concept- http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/98466

It combines the idea of kerbals being given specialisations with an experience gaining system, letting you train kerbals in certain ways, or have them develop as a side effect of how you play. It would be great.

From time to time, we hear the that the developers monitor the discussion going on in the forum, and reddit. I hope this is true, as there are some good ideas among all the repeats.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Tw1

[Wanderfound]

Also endorsed.

Apart from giving a bit more variety to the science clickfest (can we have a default "trigger science payload" action group please?), it's an obvious way to stretch out the endgame techtree.

A lengthy succession of increasingly expensive (in both science and √) science tools would give an endgame goal and turn total science into a means of keeping "score" for those who care about such things.

[KSK]

I'd love this, more science stuff please Squad!

And it'd be cool if there was something more than just a click and a report, I'd like to see an actual gravity map for each planet that you can only reveal via gravioli experiments for instance

Absolutely this. More science instruments would be lovely but having science results tied into a map like that would be golden. It would give a tangible sense of exploration and discovery to the game. And regardless of what Squad have planned (or not) for resources (not going to sidetrack the discussion into that can of worms), science maps would tie in so neatly with existing mods. A gravity map would be a stock way of locating Kethane for example, or a solar wind/magnetic field/whatever map for locating good places to harvest antimatter if you're using the Interstellar mod.

[Tuareg]

I hope they don't. Kerbal experience could be good. I like KSK's concept- http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/98466

It combines the idea of kerbals being given specialisations with an experience gaining system, letting you train kerbals in certain ways, or have them develop as a side effect of how you play. It would be great.

From time to time, we hear the that the developers monitor the discussion going on in the forum, and reddit. I hope this is true, as there are some good ideas among all the repeats.

they have already wrote somewhere that kerbal exp will change boost/engine efficiency/overheating so nothing you/we dream of. and anyway. they mess up everything why would this be the exception?

[KSK]

they have already wrote somewhere that kerbal exp will change boost/engine efficiency/overheating so nothing you/we dream of. and anyway. they mess up everything why would this be the exception?

Let's give a big hand to Captain Negative here! Who also happens to be flat out wrong.

Edited October 29, 2014 by KSK

[Tuareg]

Let's give a big hand to Captain Negative here! Who also happens to be flat out wrong.

hmmm thats already positive and yeah, im might be negative but last time i was right about science and i still think they will mess it up...

[Empiro]

Yeah definitely more cool scientific instruments, but as I've stated in another thread, I'd love to see scientific instruments that present their own unique challenges. The Science Jr and Mystery Goo are kind of interesting because both have mass and are kinda oddly shaped. Particularly in FAR, it really affects the way you design your ship. Stuff like thermometers and gravioli sensors are kinda boring because they're physicsless, and you just stick them on your craft. It just results in more clicking. The only reason I can stand it is because I have the crowd sourced science logs, and reading the amusing messages gives me something to look forward to.

For instance, you could have a drill that's heavy and needs to touch the ground, and then it digs up a fairly heavy piece of rock that you have to return all the way back to Kerbin to get science rewarded. I'm not the most creative person around, but I'm sure that many folks can come up with other interesting instruments and experiments that present different challenges, and requires the player to do things that they normally don't do.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Empiro

[AndrewBCrisp]

I like TW1's "knowledge" concept and I'd like to make a suggestion on how to expand it and help add more of the scientific process and thrill of discovery to science.

When it was clear that there were anomalies in the game - the Munar Arcs, the Munoliths, Vallhenge - people engaged in grand hunts to see if there were more anomalies. We searched, we rejoiced when we found them, and we expressed sadness when there were no more to find - or even when an anomaly vanished, like the Magic Boulder. But here was true exploration, in the classic sense, of going out and seeing what we can find.

We can do the same with science - WITHOUT changing the basic way that science functions, but ADDING to it.

What I propose is that there be some anomalous science results - viewable in the science reports (AKA the “fluff textâ€Â) that repeated study can develop. Certain biomes might have an anomalous mineral that would require the analysis of surface samples from that biome to uncover. Each sample analysis would result in some unique property being reported, or in the mineral being named. Here is how I think it would work:

Say you land a Kerbal in the Mun’s East Crater. Your first sample report would be much like existing reports. Your second sample report might read as follows:

“You found a rock that’s much harder and lighter than the others. The geologists might know what it is.â€Â

To learn more, you would need to take this sample back to a lab module - either on a planetary base or a space station - with a Planetary Science Module attached to it.

The Planetary Science Module would be a new part (I envision it to be a 2.5 m diameter part that can either be attached inline to a lab module or connected via clampotron or clampotron-SR docking ports) which contains the necessary equipment to analyze the sample. This module NEEDS the lab module to work: if you put it on a space station or base without one, it will just sit there useless. There would be a variety of experiments that can be accessed by either action groups or by the right-click menu: hardness test, spectral analysis, etc (someone with geology knowledge, help me out here: what other tests can be applied to a new mineral?).

You can only run one experiment per sample, so if you perform a hardness test, you can’t run a spectral analysis until you get a fresh sample. When you run ALL the experiments, the mineral is declared “known†and named.

I do not believe this should grant more science points than the existing amount for surface samples, but rather that the total science points for samples per biome should be spread out among the experiments. This should also mean your first sample from a biome would have a much SMALLER payout than currently, but you’d get larger payouts when you start running tests on later samples. Of course, the transmitted vs. recovered difference should remain.

If this system is adopted, we might see something similar for liquid samples and even atmospheric samples. Liquid samples (good for Kerbin, Eve, and Laythe) could be collected by Kerbals, but atmospheric samples (Eve, Kerbin, Duna, Jool, Laythe) would need to have an atmospheric sample collector part. The same Planetary Science Module could be used, but different tests for liquid and gaseous samples. The type of sample put into the module would unlock the battery of experiments that can be run on it.

However, for this system to work - and be enjoyable - we will need well-thought out anomalous minerals and results. No “You take a measurement and report it to Kerbin†fluff - something substantial, please. So if you perform a hardness test, the report gives you the hardness of the mineral. Geologists could have some fun dreaming up new minerals for these tests, and giving them consistent properties.

I would like to see one anomaly-mineral like this per planet, but ultimately we could expand this to see three or four anomaly-minerals per planet, one per biome.

Thoughts?