[Retired] Multipurpose Colony Modules for MKS/OKS (0.4.5)

[funk]

Hello funk, could you please provide some screens of your problem? It's unclear what are the parent parts you mention and there's a fundamental difference between radial and stack decouplers.

yep, np, I changed back to original cfg for MSM to show...

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[Angelo Kerman]

Actually... MKS/OKS is released under a CC 4.0 BY-SA-NC license.

So there is no license violation going on.

Yup, so is MCM, which attributes its origins to MKS/OKS. That's the nature of the license

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yep, np, I changed back to original cfg for MSM to show...

http://imgur.com/a/NiVaE

Ah, ok, so the desire is to surface attach the parts, kind of like fuel tanks?

Edited March 4, 2015 by Angel-125

[Cdr_Zeta]

Hello,

Thank you Rover for the clarification in here; it just doesnt look good when someone does not give others credit; the manufacturer's INFO should have BOTH author's to give credit but I guess what do I know. I was gonna PM you as I discovered this MOD quite by accident; all is sorted I guess.

Cmdr Zeta

[funk]

Hello,

...blabla...

Cmdr Zeta

... are you talking about. If you aren't able to read the first post, including license, relationships etc. don't offend angel or the work of any modder... Be thankful for unpaid work they've done and if you're upset, make constructive suggestions, I believe it is for their (and for (y)our) own good.

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Ah, ok, so the desire is to surface attach the parts, kind of like fuel tanks?

Yeah!!!

[Mecripp]

Hello,

Thank you Rover for the clarification in here; it just doesnt look good when someone does not give others credit; the manufacturer's INFO should have BOTH author's to give credit but I guess what do I know. I was gonna PM you as I discovered this MOD quite by accident; all is sorted I guess.

Cmdr Zeta

Well, Me for one see you point and, I think the same but also this isn't the only mod that does it and there are some of this that are imported from other games or they are just really close and or the guys that take up mods that all they can do is CFG edit's and can't even use Unity or model but yet people give them more credit then the modder whats up with that but much thanks to RoverDude in sharing all his work and Angel-125 for twist it alittle.

[Angelo Kerman]

Hello,

Thank you Rover for the clarification in here; it just doesnt look good when someone does not give others credit; the manufacturer's INFO should have BOTH author's to give credit but I guess what do I know. I was gonna PM you as I discovered this MOD quite by accident; all is sorted I guess.

Cmdr Zeta

There seems to be some confusion that is likely lost in the medium of a forum post. The mod itself is based on and built atop MKS/OKS, with license and attributions per the CC-BY-NC SA 4.0 license. There are parts in the mod that I created, the Ponderosa being one of them, which does not exist in MKS/OKS. The Homestead is another part that does not exist in MKS/OKS. Neither do the SkyDocks, though MKS/OKS has the orbital construction yard. There are other parts, such as a number of the colony templates, that are modified part.cfg files from the original mod.

@funk: got it, I'll edit the config files and make them surface attachable.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Angel-125

[Akira_R]

Well, Me for one see you point and, I think the same but also this isn't the only mod that does it and there are some of this that are imported from other games or they are just really close and or the guys that take up mods that all they can do is CFG edit's and can't even use Unity or model but yet people give them more credit then the modder whats up with that but much thanks to RoverDude in sharing all his work and Angel-125 for twist it alittle.

You are correct there are a lot of people that can only edit a cfg but get credit for doing a lot more than that (personally Cdr_Zeta sounds like one of these people but honestly I don't know, all I have seen from him on the forums is rude posts telling mod authors their work is garbage seemingly with out even understanding what the mod is intended to do) however I feel you are underestimating what Angel-125 has done with this mod.

He did more than "twist it a little", yes it utilizes the basic framework of MKS/OKS, on top of that he wrote a custom plugin to allow for the template switching and wrote a custom Unity gui for managing the templates, it even goes so far as allowing you to reconfigure a module while in flight, and unity gui's are a pain in the rear to get working properly.

@Angel-125 I apologize for continuing this pointless discussion that is bordering on a flamewar and acknowledge I am responsible for contributing to it, but as someone who has had his work not given the credit it is due, and had it used with out attribution this kind of thing really drives me crazy and pushes my buttons.

[Angelo Kerman]

@Akira: No worries, it sounds more like a misunderstanding of how the mod works more than anything.

[skbernard]

hey guys, what are the bare minimum modules required to build on site (ground base) with this and EL? (assuming i ship in infinite rocket parts)

[Mecripp]

You are correct there are a lot of people that can only edit a cfg but get credit for doing a lot more than that (personally Cdr_Zeta sounds like one of these people but honestly I don't know, all I have seen from him on the forums is rude posts telling mod authors their work is garbage seemingly with out even understanding what the mod is intended to do) however I feel you are underestimating what Angel-125 has done with this mod.

He did more than "twist it a little", yes it utilizes the basic framework of MKS/OKS, on top of that he wrote a custom plugin to allow for the template switching and wrote a custom Unity gui for managing the templates, it even goes so far as allowing you to reconfigure a module while in flight, and unity gui's are a pain in the rear to get working properly.

@Angel-125 I apologize for continuing this pointless discussion that is bordering on a flamewar and acknowledge I am responsible for contributing to it, but as someone who has had his work not given the credit it is due, and had it used with out attribution this kind of thing really drives me crazy and pushes my buttons.

I didn't mean that Angel-125 was one of those and as for his plugin sorry Angel-125 but much like RoverDude before changing to Angel work, I just stripe there MODULE out, I just like there model and the write or edit the cfg the way, I want to play, I don't get in to the punchcard thing.

[Angelo Kerman]

I didn't mean that Angel-125 was one of those and as for his plugin sorry Angel-125 but much like RoverDude before changing to Angel work, I just stripe there MODULE out, I just like there model and the write or edit the cfg the way, I want to play, I don't get in to the punchcard thing.

No worries. The nature of the mod lets you go in and tweak things how you like. If not using any of the MCM functionality works for you, I'm cool with it. I tried to document as much as I could in the config files, but if you just want the modules and none of the functionality, that works too.

I plan to use the Homestead without MCM as part of my NAUTILUS-X analog for DSEV, so it will have some basic functionality that gets Module Managed into MCM if MCM is installed. So for those who want to remove the MCM functionality, you'll have at least one example of what you can do with just the WildBlueTools. For a quick look, download DSEV and check out the FLM-1800 fuel tank. You can switch resources in that tank and it has no ties with MCM.

@skbernard: Assuming you have infinite rocket parts, you'll need a Colony Hub, survey stakes, some form of power such as the PDU, and a Machinery Plant. That presumes no life support, and assumes you are using KAS pipes or the portable crew tube to connect the modules together with. I also assume you have some type of storage, and your MCM modules are just sitting on the ground. Hope that helps.

[funk]

Last days I had some issues to get my base working properly. So I did some research in Angels / Roverdudes source and cfgs to break them down into several cases. Bear in mind that I'm not a programmer except for some knowledge from courses in university a few years ago. Futhermore I did my research only with base parts, but hell would freeze over, before it wouldn't effect orbital parts.

Here are my results:

I. Calculation of efficiency in MKSModule

1. Kerbitat efficiency module isn't recognized for calcluation

Reason: MKSEfficiencyModule is searching for "Kerbitat", but WORK_Kerbitat.cfg title is without .

Solution: Change title, shortname in /Templates/WORK_Kerbitat.cfg and defaultTemplate in Assets/IMEM.cfg and /Assets/IOWA.cfg to "Kerbitat"

2. Efficiency drops with increasing working modules, though I had enough extensions.

I have no solution for this, because I don't know the reason. But some facts indicates, that the workspaces and livingspaces are calculated only from MCMs not from extensions. In my output.log NumWorkspaces and AdjNumWorkspaces are always as high as they are with MCM Modules only (no extension modules). Even if I add a MCM_Workspace module there is no change.

Same for adding a Kerbitat_extension no change of HappynumWeightedKerbals , though there must be in CrewHappiness, with numWeightedKerbals it leads to HappynumWeightedKerbals.

If this is how this mod works, perhaps we'll need some extension for PDU, C3 and Biolab.

3. Aeroponics and Kerbitat dont have a closed loop in sense of conversion velocity. Perhaps it's just me?

Let me explain shortly what I mean. If you use Kerbitat and Aeroponics, assuming infinite Spareparts and Machinery, it should be a closed loop. But conversion rates per time for Compost->Biomass is half of Waste->Compost

normalized eq without side products/dt:

(1) 1u Food -(Kerbal)- > 1u Waste -(Composter)- > 1u Compost -(Greenhouse)- > 0.5u Biomass + 0.5u Compost -(Habitat)- > 0.5u Food + 0.5u Compost

So there is a surplus of Compost and a lack of Food. To compensate you'll need twice as high efficiency for Greenhouse as for Composter. But somehow I can't get it managed. Habitat has 10 times higher capacity as Greenhouse, so it isn't a bottle neck. What I'm doing wrong? I don't use MKS anylonger due to ram issues, so I can't compare. Perhaps it has higher efficiency for Greenhouse/Aeroponics? Will I need at least twice as many Aeroponics than Kerbitats?

Edit: After testing, I have a working closed loop due to aiming for MKS efficiency of 50% per kerbal for aeroponics/greenhouse and 25% per kerbal for Composter/Kerbitat. E.g. a 15 kerbal station needs 750% and 375% that means at two 5star kerbals per module extended with 6 IMEM(Aeroponics) and 3 IMEM(Kerbitats), all without any penalties for many modules activated, see 2.

II. Missing Modules in Config Files

As mentioned a few posts ago, there are some new modules in MKS for scrapping parts and (automatic) maintenance. Seems some of them aren't implemented in this mod yet...

This is a common explanation, if I'm wrong somewhere pls don't hesitate to clarify.

If I understand correctly, MKSModuleController adds modules from templates to parts. MKSStoragecontroller does not. Due to this, there might be some problems to implement USI_ResourceWarehouse and USI_Recyclebin to the parts which use both, colony and storage templates (e.g. Homestead). Q: In which direction works ignoreTemplateModules?

When a part is scrapped, USI_ModuleRecycleablePart will check for room of Recyclables in parts nearby which have USI_ModuelRecylebin module. Because MKSStoragecontroller doesn't check for modules in the templates, USI_ModuleRecyclebin has to be added to all storage parts: MSM, IMW and MBU2. I don't have a solution for Homestead yet.For maintenance of a single colony module, it needs USI_ModuleFieldrepair module in its template.

When doing a maintenance it checks for parts with USI_ModuleResourceWarehouse and the desired resource (Spareparts, Machinery and Enriched Uranium) to pull the resource from that part. Further it checks for parts with USI_ModuleCleaningbin for pushing DepletedUranium to them. So USI_ModuleResourceWarehouse needs to be added to all storage parts. Again what to do with Homestead? By now there is only Scienclab which uses USI_ModuleCleaningbin.Repair Shop template should have USI_ModuleResourcewarehouse, too, because it produces Spareparts and doesn't consume them.

If a ScienceLab or Repair Shop is fully manned there is an automatic maintenance with USI_ModuleResourceDistributor module, which at first pulls resources from Warehouses and then push to colony modules and finally push surplus back to warehouses. USI_ModuleResourceDistributor should be added to ScienceLab (EnrichedUranium) and Repair Shop (Spareparts), and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be added to PDU (DepletedUranium). Of course machinery can be pumped, but when aiming for full automatic maintenance it would be nice to have it in Machinery Plant, too, but there is a problem if Repair Shop has USI_ModuleResourceWarehouse it would pull from there, too. So for now I think Machinery must be pumped by hand...

Perhaps it is an opportunity to add a maintenance facility to the templates...

III. Suggestions to reorganize storage templates. This is just out of my head...

a. Xenongas in Refueling

b. Uraninite in Mining or

c. new for Uraninite, EnrichedUranium and DepletedUranium

d. Machinery in Pioneer

e. Why is Metal combined with Recyclables? Shouldn't Recyclables be included in Equipment?

IV. Occuring bug with IMEMs when loading a saved game.

If I redecorate an IMEM part to a dedicated extension, there are no Resources shown on Rightclick-GUI, but if loaded from a save it suddenly has room for Machinery, Spareparts, Electrical Charge and others from the corresponding colony modules

Steps to replicate:

1. Launch a base and attach IMEM

2. redecorate IMEM to Fabricator, Machinery Plant, Repairshop... all templates except of Academy

3. save

4. load save game

V. Kerbal Stars aren't saved after training in Space Academy

As headline says I have to train the kerbals in the station who has lower skill every time I load a saved game. Is it intended to work like this?

Attachments: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/byeh9pg50gfnsf1/AABfuVWRdhsE9zJ7AC4VtZ9sa?dl=0

changed Cfg files

Craft files for testing

savegames for testing

And a big fat SRY for my bunch of text and all what it implies...

Edited March 9, 2015 by funk

[parrots]

I am pretty sure I've missed something, but when I install MKS/OKS, I see all the parts. When I install this, MKS/OKS parts almost all vanish. Is that intended? I presume there's a file I can edit to change it, I'd like to use the parts from both mods if possible.

[NihilRex]

I am pretty sure I've missed something, but when I install MKS/OKS, I see all the parts. When I install this, MKS/OKS parts almost all vanish. Is that intended? I presume there's a file I can edit to change it, I'd like to use the parts from both mods if possible.

Delete MM_USI.CFG

[Angelo Kerman]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll take a look when I have more time.

[Kaa253]

I am just trying this out in a new career and it looks very promising! So, I hate to add another thing to the recent posts here but for me, for some reason I can't figure out, the MM_USI.cfg would not hide the original MKS/OKS parts from my techtree. I eventually just did a global replace of "::NEEDS[Kolonization]:AFTER[Kolonization]" with ":FINAL". Brutal sure, but it works to unclutter my VAB.

[Angelo Kerman]

I am just trying this out in a new career and it looks very promising! So, I hate to add another thing to the recent posts here but for me, for some reason I can't figure out, the MM_USI.cfg would not hide the original MKS/OKS parts from my techtree. I eventually just did a global replace of "::NEEDS[Kolonization]:AFTER[Kolonization]" with ":FINAL". Brutal sure, but it works to unclutter my VAB.

Most curious. Are others having the same problem? Is MKS/OKS still showing up for you? I changed the MM config to AFTER originally to help with mod integration, but if enough are having similar issues then I'll switch it back to FINAL.

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

I believe that ":AFTER[X]" implies ":NEEDS[X]", so there may be issues related to having both.

[Enceos]

I believe that ":AFTER[X]" implies ":NEEDS[X]", so there may be issues related to having both.

I don't think so, this line always worked for me.

[funk]

I think the right expression would be

@PART[???]:FOR[yourmod]:NEEDS[othermod]

e.g.

@PART[MKS_FlexOTube]:FOR[WILDBLUETOOLS]:NEEDS[KOLONYTOOLS]{

...

}

FOR means that your mod and nobody else patches a part while your dll is executed, so anybody else can go with BEFORE and AFTER. If there isn't a dll in your mod, you tell MM with FOR that you are yourmod.

All other checks rely on dependencies to a dll. So NEEDS, BEFORE and AFTER, checks if there is a dll with that description (you can see, if you rightclick the dll > properties > details), except there was somebody who tells MM that it exist (with FOR)

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I don't think so, this line always worked for me.

Yep this works for example

AFTER[Wildbluetools]:NEEDS[Realfuels]

Edited March 9, 2015 by funk

[Angelo Kerman]

I'm at work, can anybody try simply removing the :AFTER statement from the MM_USI config file and see if that works?

[Andalope]

I can not figure out how to build these. Do you have any tutorials?

[funk]

I've build a config after the guideline of MM.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/byeh9pg50gfnsf1/AABfuVWRdhsE9zJ7AC4VtZ9sa?dl=0 Look for MM_USI.cfg

The MKS parts are only shown in sandbox mode, if you filter by Manufacturer, Module or Resource, because this nodes aren't edited. If you want to hide them in sandbox, you'll have to edit the config for every part as follows:

@PART[MK3_*]:FOR[MCMutils]:AFTER[KolonyTools]:NEEDS[Kolonytools]
{
    @manufacturer = -1
    @TechRequired = -1
    @category = -1
    !MODULE,* {}
    !RESOURCE,* {}
}

@Angel

Unhided parts are only antenna, drills, scanomatic and logistic hub, if it is desired to show some parts like habdome, just edit or delete the nodes.

For consistency you should only use FOR[MCMutils] for patches by MCM mod. So anybody can edit the parts before/after MCM. Bad example Rover uses FOR[Kolonytools], FOR[MKS], FOR[OKS] and even FOR[Launchpad] (origin is EPL), so it is difficult for others to rely on an order. Besides definition with FOR[mod] MM assume for every dll and subfolder in gamedata (and not a subfolder in a subfolder , like "Kolonization"!) is a mod to check for dependencies.

Mod DLLs found:
Assembly-CSharp v1.0.0.0
ModuleManager.2.5.10 v2.5.10.0
DynamicTanks v1.0.0.0
USITools v1.0.0.0
Firespitter v7.0.5519.33492
ModuleRCSFX v0.3.5496.34957
Regolith v1.0.0.0
TechManager v1.5.0.0
KolonyTools v1.0.0.0
MCMUtils v1.0.0.0
WildBlueTools v1.0.0.0
Non-DLL mods added:
Launchpad
MKS
OKS
Mods by directory (sub directories of GameData):
000_USITools
CommunityResourcePack
CommunityTechTree
Squad
UmbraSpaceIndustries
WildBlueIndustries

[ModuleManager] compiling list of loaded mods...

Feel free to use my config. And I would be glad to help you with other configs. Thinking about DRE, RT and FAR as well as existing ones.

Edited March 10, 2015 by funk
improved cfg

[NihilRex]

Angel - I couldnt find with a quick search, do the OKS hab ring and aeroponics work with the MCM?

I am trying to design a onesizefitsall lifter and tug, and wondering whether i should be using the homestead or MCM.

[funk]

Angel - I couldnt find with a quick search, do the OKS hab ring and aeroponics work with the MCM?

I am trying to design a onesizefitsall lifter and tug, and wondering whether i should be using the homestead or MCM.

You can use both, because the template is the same.