Devnote Tuesdays: The Gizmo Edition

[Red Iron Crown]

When you boot a game not all assets are loaded at once otherwiwe youd need 20GB of RAM to play graphic intensive games.

Only the required assets to render the scene are loaded so the impact on memory usage of this new feature will hardly be noticable... :-)

For most games that's true, for KSP it is not. It does load all the assets on start up. Maybe that will change when the features are all implemented and it makes sense to start optimizing.

[Padishar]

When you boot a game not all assets are loaded at once otherwiwe youd need 20GB of RAM to play graphic intensive games.

Only the required assets to render the scene are loaded so the impact on memory usage of this new feature will hardly be noticable... :-)

I suggest you go and do some more research on how KSP, in particular, works before making blanket statements like this. If what you said was true then it wouldn't take so long for the initial load of the game, the "loading" screens on scene switches would be much longer and the game wouldn't crash during the initial load when you install too many large part mods...

It is already not really possible to run the game on Win32 with the default settings without hitting the 2Gig user address space limit. You have to either use opengl mode or reduce the texture resolution or it will randomly crash when switching scenes. Adding more assets will make this situation even worse though it is possible that the new building levels will share (some) existing textures so the impact may not be as significant as it could be.

[KN_Namida]

I hope the building upgrade stuff extends to the island runway and the inland ksc

Why? The insular airfield is just an old abandoned facility, and the inland ksc is nothing more than an easter egg. Besides we can only launch from the regular ksc, as of now.

[Caelib]

While I do appreciate the weekly updates, I personally don't have a clear picture of what this update is going to provide in terms of how these systems actually work or benefit the player.

[Red Iron Crown]

While I do appreciate the weekly updates, I personally don't have a clear picture of what this update is going to provide in terms of how these systems actually work or benefit the player.

"Editor overhaul - Boy has this one been a long time coming. We’re improving part sorting, adding 3d widgets to make building way easier and overall make it a more pleasant, reliable experience. No more fiddling to get things to fit!

Kerbal Experience - We’re using the created experience tracking system to give Kerbals traits. These traits will level up as they partake in missions and accomplish goals, increasing the unique passive bonuses each Kerbal will be generated with.

Extra Contracts - We’re adding a couple new contract types. We’re also integrating the related mod ‘Fine Print’ to stock. S’really good.

Biomes Everywhere - Revising all of the old ones and adding new ones to every single planet and moon.

MK3 Overhaul - We’re going to be working with Porkjet to get as much of this as we can for 25. The general scope for this one dwarfs the content in SP+, so we hope you can understand this one will take time. Attempts to clone Porkjet have so far been unsuccessful.

Upgradable buildings - The last big feature missing from career mode and the reason why our art team has been chained to their desks for months now. Every building is getting a tech progression path which will slowly unlock all of their current capacities and some new ones. Take your space center from an amateur project to a world class space center."

Seems reasonably clear to me.

[Dodgey]

Why? The insular airfield is just an old abandoned facility, and the inland ksc is nothing more than an easter egg. Besides we can only launch from the regular ksc, as of now.

Well the implication is that we would be able to launch from those other sites.

[ImJake]

I'm pretty excited about the new parts tab organization. I was never a fan of the current one. Will we be able to add our own tags in game? Because that's always been something that I've wanted.

I'd be in favor of being able to place a new KSC anywhere on Kerbin. Even if this isn't an option, starting a new KSC at one of many predetermined locations in exchange for funds would be good enough for me.

Looking forward to the rest of the update.

[DunaRocketeer]

Can not wait for upgradable buildings and new contracts, it sounds awesome

[DeepSpaceDutch]

Excited about the update! Really hope they fix the radial decoupler bug though, bit sick of not knowing how a booster will separate...

[Guest]

I hope this update will make them realize they need to fix their completely bone-headed asset loader, otherwise they're going to start running out of memory in their own unmodded game. I only hope this happens to them early on, perhaps they'll hit this snag once the buildings and Mk3 overhaul hit QA. This loader is so broken that you can crash KSP by picking up and discarding a single part, if you're just under the limit. Ridiculous, I tell you, and it's going to bite Squad, sooner or later.

[ThirdHorseman]

I'm sorry but I'm as unexcited about "upgradeable buildings" as I am about the original "Kerbal Experience". What, will an upgraded building give a performance boost to ships constructed there? What is this insistence on performance boosts to equipment?

I don't see why an upgraded building would act as a part gate, giving access to better parts as they are upgraded. That's the whole point of the tech tree and funds...that you need to unlock parts with Science! and pay for them with Funds! Why add a third unlock as well, that doesn't make any sense...

I just don't see what an upgraded building will be good for. Faster vehicle construction? Bigger rockets? Is it purely an aesthetic things, making the buildings bigger and prettier?

I have a bad feeling that all the things I had a problem with in the proposed experience system (experience altering performance) is going to get slid silently into the building upgrade system. How about a little idea as to what upgrading buildings will be used for, Squad?

[juanml82]

I'm sorry but I'm as unexcited about "upgradeable buildings" as I am about the original "Kerbal Experience". What, will an upgraded building give a performance boost to ships constructed there? What is this insistence on performance boosts to equipment?

I don't see why an upgraded building would act as a part gate, giving access to better parts as they are upgraded. That's the whole point of the tech tree and funds...that you need to unlock parts with Science! and pay for them with Funds! Why add a third unlock as well, that doesn't make any sense...

I just don't see what an upgraded building will be good for. Faster vehicle construction? Bigger rockets? Is it purely an aesthetic things, making the buildings bigger and prettier?

I have a bad feeling that all the things I had a problem with in the proposed experience system (experience altering performance) is going to get slid silently into the building upgrade system. How about a little idea as to what upgrading buildings will be used for, Squad?

It would sound like for making bigger rockets, tracking objects beyond Kerbin's SOI, getting better kerbonauts from the get go and the like. So your basic SPH can build airplanes with basic jets, but if you want to make a spaceplane capable of reaching orbit, you'll need to upgrade the SPH in order to add the rapiers/rocket engines.

Which is realistic, BTW. You don't build a New Horizons rocket in the same facility where you build sounding rockets for experimentation.

[Seshins]

i dont mind upgradeable buildings if it increases the abilities/effectiveness of the Space Program as a whole. I did not like the Exp system that was floated by buffing ships because of Jeb and reasons.

[ThirdHorseman]

if you want to make a spaceplane capable of reaching orbit, you'll need to upgrade the SPH in order to add the rapiers/rocket engines.

But that's exactly my point. In the current game if you want to make a spaceplane capable of reaching orbit you need to unlock the rapiers/rocket engines in the tech tree by grinding out Science! and then you have to earn the Funds! to pay for those items by completing contracts. So now, with upgradeable buildings, even after I spend the time grinding Science! and Funds! I have to go get even more Funds! to upgrade the SPH? Now you're just adding another step and that makes things even more grind-y.

I don't see how adding another unlock step makes the game more fun...

[ThirdHorseman]

i dont mind upgradeable buildings if it increases the abilities/effectiveness of the Space Program as a whole.

Yea but that's what the Strategies were for, to increase various parts of the Space Program by making trade-offs with decreases in other parts. Why will I need to implement a Strategy if I can just upgrade a building to make all my rockets cost less, or upgrade the Science building to get more Science! from all my experiments?

I guess I'd be okay with upgraded buildings bringing down part costs, or increasing Science! output...although I don't see the point in making those aspects even easier than they already are. As long as they don't make my engines more efficient, or my wings have more lift, or anything that the original XP system was going to do...

[Wanderfound]

But that's exactly my point. In the current game if you want to make a spaceplane capable of reaching orbit you need to unlock the rapiers/rocket engines in the tech tree by grinding out Science! and then you have to earn the Funds! to pay for those items by completing contracts. So now, with upgradeable buildings, even after I spend the time grinding Science! and Funds! I have to go get even more Funds! to upgrade the SPH? Now you're just adding another step and that makes things even more grind-y.

I don't see how adding another unlock step makes the game more fun...

Also keep in mind that the integration of Fine Print will vastly increase the diversity of ways in which science can be acquired. Sick of Mun landings? Fly an aerial survey contract. Wanna launch big rockets? Take a contract to build a research base on Duna. Etc.

All of these sorts of contracts deliver science as well as √ and reputation. It may change by the time it gets to stock, but at present I get more science out of an aerial survey flight than a Munlanding. If I wanted to exploit the Outsourced R&D miscalibration, I could easily complete the tech tree without leaving the atmosphere.

[DocMoriarty]

A lot of work is going into totally superflous stuff like upgradable buildings and experience for kerbals, IMO. Not really excited. The WOW-effect for a building upgrade lasts for how long? A few seconds? Opposed to that if the effort would go into parts for resources or space stations we could have months of joy. IMO the development is going into a completely wrong direction at the moment. That started already with the addition of the administration building. I didn't even use it once in my 0.25 career so far, it's pointless, except for being a VTOL test facility with it's helipad. Of course other parts are appreciated like the overhaul of VAB and SPH. Wouldn't mind a serious bug fix release too where stuff like EVA (pitch control, too rough etc.) and a lot of other annoyances gets fixed.

[GusTurbo]

A lot of work is going into totally superflous stuff like upgradable buildings and experience for kerbals, IMO. Not really excited. The WOW-effect for a building upgrade lasts for how long? A few seconds? Opposed to that if the effort would go into parts for resources or space stations we could have months of joy. IMO the development is going into a completely wrong direction at the moment. That started already with the addition of the administration building. I didn't even use it once in my 0.25 career so far, it's pointless, except for being a VTOL test facility with it's helipad. Of course other parts are appreciated like the overhaul of VAB and SPH. Wouldn't mind a serious bug fix release too where stuff like EVA (pitch control, too rough etc.) and a lot of other annoyances gets fixed.

I'm going to guess that upgrading buildings upgrades your capabilities, rather than just being a visual upgrade.

[Spazmataz]

I don't mind the idea of upgradable buildings. It seems like a logical step toward the original design goals of the game.

Don't get me wrong though, none of this "tycoon" style gameplay stuff relates to why I fell in love with the game. Of course it's the intuitive orbital mechanics and the semi-realistic physics that hooked me and keep me playing (and playing and playing and playing at the expense of other aspects of life). The rest is less important to me.

But let's not forget that the game is about creating and managing your own space program. And although that includes neat physics it's more encompassing that just that. I mean, space program is even part of the game's name after all.

So upgradable buildings along with some of the recent economical additions seems like a logical step toward the original design goals. The game's developers have been up front about having things like this from the get-go. As long as nothing distracts too much from the neat physics and science, then I'm all for it.

[Broax]

Upgrading to a taller VAB or a wider SPH would make sense for the ability to build higher rockets/wider planes...

[UAL002]

I would just like to chime in and say I'm excited for all the planned features. I feel like all the naysayers and worriers are speaking louder than those of us who like all the proposed additions.

However I am glad they nixed kerbal experience boosting isp. That was too much.

[ThirdHorseman]

Upgrading to a taller VAB or a wider SPH would make sense for the ability to build higher rockets/wider planes...

That's one way I can see them going, but have you ever tried to build something and found the VAB/SPH too small? Maybe one time I was trying to build this ridiculous rocket and I touched the top of the VAB...but that was one time out of the hundreds of rockets I've built. I can't see that as being a compelling reason to earn the funds to upgrade. Unless the VAB/SPH you start with is smaller than the one we have now, and we have to start building small rockets. And again, that's just one more grind that we have to worry about after gathering Science! and Funds! to unlock the parts in the first place.

I'm going to guess that upgrading buildings upgrades your capabilities, rather than just being a visual upgrade.

Yes, but what capabilities? The capability of building bigger rockets? The capability of using newer/better parts? What would an upgradeable building upgrade?

It's the same situation that Kerbal XP is in now. Kerbal XP was going to alter the performance of parts, which was a huge mistake. So now, what will Kerbal XP do? Nobody knows, and I don't see anything in the game that makes Kerbal XP an interesting or necessary game mechanic. Same goes for upgraded buildings. If they don't boost performance of parts, what will they do?

I would just like to chime in and say I'm excited for all the planned features.

What is it about upgrading buildings that is exciting? I'm serious...I really don't see what they can do that would be so exciting and that's probably just because of my limited imagination. What will they add to the game that has you looking forward to that feature?

However I am glad they nixed kerbal experience boosting isp. That was too much.

How would you feel about spending 1,000,000 Funds! to upgrade the VAB to Level3, which gives a 10% vacuum ISP boost to rocket engines on any ships built there?

[ThirdHorseman]

And I'm not just being negative...I'm just really tired of getting half-thought-out features added to the game.

When they said they were implementing Funds! I thought "Wow, if funds are going to be so important I hope they put in a mechanic for recovering stages". People said, there are already mods that do that so I'm sure Squad wouldn't forget about such an important feature. Well, they did.

When they said they were implementing Kerbal transfers via right-click I thought "Wow, that's cool. I really hope they don't make it silly, where you could transfer a Kerbal from one end of a ship to another through struts, i-beams, wings, etc, and make it so only certain types of parts will allow transfer (such as docking ports, fuselages, etc)" People said "Of course they wouldn't do something that silly." They did.

And who thinks that, in a game based on consistent parts performance for both reproducible launches and for the ease of sharing craft files, adding a mechanic to give experienced Kerbals the ability to boost engine thrust is a good idea? Well, they tried and we still don't know what they will do with the final implementation.

If they are going to put in a building upgrade mechanic I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be skeptical of their planned implementation...

[KerrMü]

If they are going to put in a building upgrade mechanic I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be skeptical of their planned implementation...

That's squads development path. First get all mechanics into the game, with a bit content to show what those mechanics do, then finetune them and add more content after scope-comletion. That seems logic to me. I for myself am exited, that that next phase of development is near.

I really do like the idea of starting in a shed with a sandy runway (if it gets that basic ). I'm sure we will get ways to earn the funds for the building upgrades. IMO the game is by far less grindy since the implementation of career mode.

Looking forward to all those features. Keep it up guys!

[Tw1]

TIt's the same situation that Kerbal XP is in now. Kerbal XP was going to alter the performance of parts, which was a huge mistake. So now, what will Kerbal XP do? Nobody knows, and I don't see anything in the game that makes Kerbal XP an interesting or necessary game mechanic. Same goes for upgraded buildings. If they don't boost performance of parts, what will they do?

While I largely agree with you, many career features seem poorly thought out, or at least, very incomplete, not living up to the potential a game like this has.

Kerbal XP could be interesting.

I hope they impiment somthing like this suggestion: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/98466-Kerbal-Experience-and-Roles