[1.1.2] Realism Overhaul v11.0.0 May 8

[Rabada]

I've followed the instructions in the first post to install this ( I used Ckan) and when I look in my data folder I can see that it installed a bunch of stuff in there... Yet when I launch KSP I'm still on Kerbin.. .. .. What Did I do wrong?

Its hard to say... We need more info... There's a ton of different ways this could happen. My best guess is that either an important requisite mod didn't get installed or a conflicting mod did get installed. Could you post a pic of all the folders in your gamedata folder? Also if you could host the output_log.txt found in your KSP_Data folder somewhere in its entirety that would be very informative on whats going on.

[chrisl]

I've followed the instructions in the first post to install this ( I used Ckan) and when I look in my data folder I can see that it installed a bunch of stuff in there... Yet when I launch KSP I'm still on Kerbin.. .. .. What Did I do wrong?

If you're still on Kerbin, sounds like you didn't get RSS installed properly. RSS is only a recommended mod for RO so I don't know if CKAN installs it automatically or not. RSS is what actually puts you on earth.

[Trolllception]

v10.4.1

• FASA Agena parts' masses tweaked slightly (note: FASA Agena models an early Agena D, which as far as we can tell is much heavier than the later, 673kg-dry-mass versions. You can tell because they have later-model 8096 engines with 300s, not 291s, Isp).
  
• Make Agena avionics (stock part) exactly 5ft in diameter, not 1.5m.
  

My lovely Agena-D got it's weight lightened (If I read the github changes correctly). Hooray. I was having difficulties following certain historic missions and this may make things more do-able. Great update.

[NathanKell]

Malekit: You are in the thread of the very mod that will help with that.

Trollception: Alas I was unclear, I guess. Rokker and I spent a good bit of time last night researching this, and the best we can come up with is this: there were multiple Agena D versions. The later version is the one that is recorded on nautix (and in Ed Kyle's Space Launch Report), i.e. 673kg dry, 6.8t wet, 300s Isp engine. However, http://www.b14643.de has stats for teh "early" Agena, with the 291s engine. It has a much higher dry mass--actually, higher than what we currently have for the GATV. We're trying to find out more, but for now, the FASA Agena parts have had their mass redistributed slightly (docking port is heavier, avionics and fuel tank lighter)

Pending further info, that's how things will lie, I guess.

[StoryMusgrave]

From my understanding is that there wasn't so much different versions of Agena-D, it was a matter of the Agena-D lent itself to a lot of modification/configuration to meet specific tasks. There was shall I say the 'core' of Agena-D, on which multiple items could be bolted on either ahead of the main bulkhead or in/on the flight pack. Sure the engine changed later on, as well as the GATV having a different engine, modified for many restarts, as well. Kinda the barbie doll or lego blocks of the rocket world.

[davidy12]

Is there a good Orion analogue that works for this version?

- - - Updated - - -

(Not the engine that uses nukes, the capsule BTW)

[davidy12]

Also is there a good SLS or Ares Rocket for RO?

[Trolllception]

Trollception: Alas I was unclear, I guess. Rokker and I spent a good bit of time last night researching this, and the best we can come up with is this: there were multiple Agena D versions. The later version is the one that is recorded on nautix (and in Ed Kyle's Space Launch Report), i.e. 673kg dry, 6.8t wet, 300s Isp engine. However, http://www.b14643.de has stats for teh "early" Agena, with the 291s engine. It has a much higher dry mass--actually, higher than what we currently have for the GATV. We're trying to find out more, but for now, the FASA Agena parts have had their mass redistributed slightly (docking port is heavier, avionics and fuel tank lighter)

Pending further info, that's how things will lie, I guess.

I was referring to the Tank, Antenna, and bus unit tweaks which I got from the github changelog (lower mass). I don't use the Agena-D target adapter except for my Gemini missions I am currently running. I am using the Agena-D as a workhorse for getting satellites into orbit. It felt a bit low on delta-v given that it should be able to get a .7t payload to GEO which by my testing wasn't possible with the weights used earlier and may now be possible. There is also the FASA Agena engine/propulsion module which did not have the weights tweaked.

This document lists the dry weights and looks pretty official, 544kg/675kg for the Agena-D dry mass. http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19720013175.pdf

Interestingly the Agena also has the ability to dump propellant. Has there been any considerations to allow for propellant dumping in Realism Overhaul? Maybe add to some never ending list of feature requests? The Agena-D also appears to have featured expendible solar panels to extend the usable range of the spacecraft. Interesting...

Now if only I can figure out how to dock my FASA gemini pod with my Agena-D Target Vehicle sitting in orbit... RSS/RO/RP-0 and using FASA parts certainty doesn't make things any easier, there is rarely room for error with these parts and combo's. (I am not so good at matching orbits without a throttle-able engine yet...)

Edited September 22, 2015 by Trolllception

[Sput42]

Hi RSS is very good but when i try to fly with Saturn V FASA Mod it's impossible to go to the moon

I can just orbit around the earth

In 0.90 Kerbal ISP Difficulty scaler mod can resolve this problem but how in 1.0.4 ????

If any1 can reach Jupiter or Saturn orbit please explain me

I managed to get the Saturn V/Apollo all the way to the Moon, landed, and got back to Earth with some fuel to spare in both the LEM and the Service Module. Have yet to try reentry to complete that mission (loading up the game as I write this...).

Since you seem to have trouble: Did you follow the actual mission profile? I used NASA material to tweak my trajectories to the point where I managed to be very close to real life in my replay. You have to have a surprisingly shallow ascent path if you want to get into orbit with enough fuel left. First stage should burn out at around 70km height at a speed of around 2.5 km/s. Second stage should get you near an apoapsis of 190 km and a speed of around 7 km/s. Third stage should only use up around 500 m/s or so for circularization, and then have enough fuel left to get you all the way to the Moon (aim for a translunar injection profile that brings you close to escape velocity, i.e. around 10.8 km/s if I recall correctly; that way you need less fuel from the Service Module for the capture burn). Aim for a 110 km orbit.

Once you're in lunar orbit, you should have plenty of fuel in the LEM to get you down and back up again. You can increase this if you use the SM to lower your periapsis to about 15 km before detaching the LEM. Once you're ready to depart to Earth, you should have at least 1200 m/s left in the SM (with no LEM attached, of course), and that is plenty to bring you back home.

Also note that in the stock Saturn V from FASA, all upper stages have their fuel and resources disabled, so you don't drain them prematurely. You have to right-click the parts and re-enable resource flow before using them.

Also, don't forget to activate your CO2 scrubbers and fuel cells, otherwise your crew won't survive the trip and you'll run out of power.

Good luck!

[NathanKell]

StoryMusgrave: Yeah. And also there's a lot of reference to Agena D being a 'standardized' Agena-B...

davidy12: Taurus capsule. For SLS, the stock parts work.

Trollception: Yep, I did lower them slightly since the stock-part Agena guidance is only 280kg, and the tank should be lighter. The pdf you cite is for Shuttle-Agena testing, so if the 'multiple dry mass' hypothesis is correct, would be of the later, lighter variant. And just to muddy the waters further, Designation-systems.net shows 1045kg dry for both B and D.

For propellant dumping, TAC Fuel Balancer and/or Ship Manifest should be able to handle it.

For docking...good luck. :]

[chrisl]

I was referring to the Tank, Antenna, and bus unit tweaks which I got from the github changelog (lower mass). I don't use the Agena-D target adapter except for my Gemini missions I am currently running. I am using the Agena-D as a workhorse for getting satellites into orbit. It felt a bit low on delta-v given that it should be able to get a .7t payload to GEO which by my testing wasn't possible with the weights used earlier and may now be possible. There is also the FASA Agena engine/propulsion module which did not have the weights tweaked.

This document lists the dry weights and looks pretty official, 544kg/675kg for the Agena-D dry mass. http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19720013175.pdf

Interestingly the Agena also has the ability to dump propellant. Has there been any considerations to allow for propellant dumping in Realism Overhaul? Maybe add to some never ending list of feature requests? The Agena-D also appears to have featured expendible solar panels to extend the usable range of the spacecraft. Interesting...

Now if only I can figure out how to dock my FASA gemini pod with my Agena-D Target Vehicle sitting in orbit... RSS/RO/RP-0 and using FASA parts certainty doesn't make things any easier, there is rarely room for error with these parts and combo's. (I am not so good at matching orbits without a throttle-able engine yet...)

I technically do the process backwards. I know in reality, the GATV was launched and then 90 minutes later, the Gemini was launched but with KCT I can't do that. So I usually launch my Gemini and get it into an orbit above 150km. Then I wait for my pad to be ready, get the GATV ready for launch, then advance time until I'll be able to launch into the Gemini's inclination. With the GATV, I aim for at least a 180km orbit. Then I have GATV rendezvous with Gemini. That will usually get me to within about 10km of Gemini. At that point I switch to the Gemini and use it's RCS thrusters to reach the GATV and actually dock. It works pretty well even with unthrottleable engines.

[Trolllception]

I technically do the process backwards. I know in reality, the GATV was launched and then 90 minutes later, the Gemini was launched but with KCT I can't do that. So I usually launch my Gemini and get it into an orbit above 150km. Then I wait for my pad to be ready, get the GATV ready for launch, then advance time until I'll be able to launch into the Gemini's inclination. With the GATV, I aim for at least a 180km orbit. Then I have GATV rendezvous with Gemini. That will usually get me to within about 10km of Gemini. At that point I switch to the Gemini and use it's RCS thrusters to reach the GATV and actually dock. It works pretty well even with unthrottleable engines.

Hmm this seems alot more logical. I actually got both my FASA TitanII/Gemini and my Atlas-Agena (GATV) into orbit yesterday. I put the GATV up first and then sent up the pod and realized docking won't be like it is in stock given the velocities and the required inclination changes. I didn't even attempt to try to rendevous on the first orbit since I have a hard enough time as it is launching in a direct to orbit ascent while maintaining a non elliptical orbit. Mission control may pull the plug on this due to inexperienced spacecraft operators...

How are you matching the inclination of the GATV/Gemini? I have been using MechJeb's ascent guidance to plan these but wonder if there's a better way. Things are just so much more complicated with RO/RSS/RP-0 especially when flying NASA spec rockets and I absolutely love it.

Trollception: Yep, I did lower them slightly since the stock-part Agena guidance is only 280kg, and the tank should be lighter. The pdf you cite is for Shuttle-Agena testing, so if the 'multiple dry mass' hypothesis is correct, would be of the later, lighter variant. And just to muddy the waters further, Designation-systems.net shows 1045kg dry for both B and D.

For propellant dumping, TAC Fuel Balancer and/or Ship Manifest should be able to handle it.

For docking...good luck. :]

I guess I will add Ship Manifest back to the ole mod bucket. Docking will definitely be a challenge, feels like the first time again

Edited September 22, 2015 by Trolllception

[chrisl]

Hmm this seems alot more logical. I actually got both my FASA TitanII/Gemini and my Atlas-Agena (GATV) into orbit yesterday. I put the GATV up first and then sent up the pod and realized docking won't be like it is in stock given the velocities and the required inclination changes. I didn't even attempt to try to rendevous on the first orbit since I have a hard enough time as it is launching in a direct to orbit ascent while maintaining a non elliptical orbit. Mission control may pull the plug on this due to inexperienced spacecraft operators...

How are you matching the inclination of the GATV/Gemini? I have been using MechJeb's ascent guidance to plan these but wonder if there's a better way. Things are just so much more complicated with RO/RSS/RP-0 especially when flying NASA spec rockets and I absolutely love it.

I use Mechjeb like you. Launch the Gemini with a -28.6 inclination with ascent guidance. Once in orbit, get the GATV onto the pad, target the Gemini then use the ascent guidance option in mechjeb to launch into target's plane. Both vessels end up with very near 28.6 inclination and the GATV will be close enough to the Gemini's orbital path that no further inclination change is needed. One extra piece of info I have is an extra Mechjeb "Target" panel that I've setup to display "Relative inclination". I use that to make sure my GATV's inclination stays very close to what the Gemini's is.

As for circular initial orbits, I use mechjeb ascent guidance with everything turned off, Orbit altitude of 33500 (though any value above your target will work) and Orbit inclination of -28.6 (or lower if I'm going to a steeper incline). I keep the Ascent Path Editor open during the entire launch. Turn start altitude = 10km. Turn start velocity = 100m/s. Turn end altitude for my Titan GLV and GATV is 120km. Final flight path angle is initially and ultimately 0. Turn shape: 60%

Engage guidance and launch. I leave ascent path details as indicate above until my Apoapsis is within 20km of whatever I'm targeting (so 130km if I want a 150km orbit, etc). Once I reach 20km from my target apoapsis, I change the "turn end altitude" to be whatever altitude I'm currently at. From that point I just want vertical speed. Depending on my launch vehicle, it's usually at 800m/s - 1.2km/s at this point but it's always dropping. I just let it drop with the rocket in level flight until it's down to around 20m/s. At that point I start messing with "Final flight path angle". Raise it up enough to keep vertical speed just above 0m/s. As vertical speed starts to climb again, I'll lower the flight path angle. When it's finally back down to 0, I just watch Periapsis and as soon as it matches Apoapsis (or is within 10km for slower response engines like the RL10), I disengage the autopilot. It's not a perfectly circular orbit, but I usually can get +/-20km between Peri and Apo which is close enough for me.

[Laie]

How are you matching the inclination of the GATV/Gemini? I have been using MechJeb's ascent guidance to plan these but wonder if there's a better way. Things are just so much more complicated with RO/RSS/RP-0 especially when flying NASA spec rockets and I absolutely love it.

Gemini holds quite some RCS fuel, but 90 minutes apart would be about 23°... way too much. I expect they launched with different azimuths, so that the vessels ended up with near-identical inclinations. Probably not difficult if you know how to do the maths.

As for myself, I haven't docked yet but I've become quite proficient in matching lunar inclination from the get-go, launching at 94° and then gently turning left once I'm out of the worst atmosphere. The FASA Gemini model holds about 300m/s worth of RCS fuel; half that should fully suffice to meet the GATV within ten orbits, even if one initially launched into opposition.

(incidentally, is there a way to make MJ display the dV from RCS?)

[Nerd1000]

How does one deal with the way the autopilots waste all your RCS fuel (in my case, often without even succeeding in correctly aiming the ship)? The KOs and Remotetech Autopilots both do the same thing.

I'd rather not have to re-invent the wheel by writing functional autopilot logic in KOs.

[NathanKell]

For whoever was having issues with duplicate ST2 panels: Uninstall RP-0, delete the RP-0 folder from gamedata if it remains, then install it fresh. That will fix it.

[Trolllception]

How does one deal with the way the autopilots waste all your RCS fuel (in my case, often without even succeeding in correctly aiming the ship)? The KOs and Remotetech Autopilots both do the same thing.

I'd rather not have to re-invent the wheel by writing functional autopilot logic in KOs.

Mechjeb doesn't seem to 'hunt' around for the target. It works much better than the KOS/Remotetech autopilots. If you check the thread there are also downloads for FAR and ModuleRCSFX which you probably want. You also need a dev build to use those, details on the page (sorta).

Any development on MechJeb throttling engines down when turning off ascent guidance? I read in the thread shift can be held down to hopefully avoid a 0 throttle condition.

[emb110]

Mechjeb now has a function that allows you control the minimum engine thrust.

Has as anyone been to get honeyfox etc to work in rss/ro with 1.04 ?

Edited September 23, 2015 by emb110

[Trolllception]

I wasn't able to get my Gemini to dock yesterday mainly due to technical problems and me wanting to experiment more with RVE. Hopefully I will have a success story to share soon.

On another note I believe I tracked down nasa's listed dry weight for the Agena target vehicle, also listed as the Agena ascent vehicle in the handbook. (This might not be valid for the Agena-A, still reading) Table 2-2 shows the Agena ascent vehicle configuration and table 2-3 shows the weight when configured in tug mode to be used for Satellites. It's a pretty awesome read none the less if your interested in engineering/configuration data written by NASA. Fig 2-2 gives the Agena Ascent vehicle in original configuration a dry weight of 512 kg.

Annex A also goes over early engine configurations of the Agena which originally used a B-58 Hustler engine burning JP-4 jet fuel and IRFNA oxidizer and had a burn capability of 100 seconds. There may be some great engine specs to pull out of here. I'll take a look at it at work today and see what else can be dug up. Then its time to track down the US probe science experiments.

Volume II - http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19720013177.pdf

Annex A - http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19720013179.pdf

Edit: This document shows that the Agena weight increased over revisions but added more fuel capacity. So the older versions actually weighed in less than the current version due to increased fuel capacity and improved turbopumps/engine.

http://www.nro.gov/foia/declass/WS117L_Records/987.PDF (I like all the crossed out 'Secret' labels... I feel like a spy or something.)

Edited September 23, 2015 by Trolllception

[chrisl]

How does one deal with the way the autopilots waste all your RCS fuel (in my case, often without even succeeding in correctly aiming the ship)? The KOs and Remotetech Autopilots both do the same thing.

I'd rather not have to re-invent the wheel by writing functional autopilot logic in KOs.

I tend to only turn on AP when I've already got my rocket pointed in the correct direction. Mechjeb does have some settings that refer to it's use of RCS propellant but I've never bothered to mess around with them. Once I've manually got my vessel pointed where it needs to be, AP usually does just fine keeping it correctly oriented without wasting a lot of propellant.

[davidy12]

May I ask, whenever I try the Agena atlas, it doesn't load.

PS: Is there anyplace where I can get craft files for Real world rockets?

[Trolllception]

May I ask, whenever I try the Agena atlas, it doesn't load.

PS: Is there anyplace where I can get craft files for Real world rockets?

Which Atlas-Agena are you attempting to load? What part files does it reference when loading? (It should list specific part names, list a few) If it's the FASA one I think there may be a couple errors related to the fairing when attempting to load it.

There are alot of craft files in the Realism Overhaul github repository. If you look under the ships or sub-assemblies folders you will find a bunch. I think the crafts that say KK_ in the name need the 'Launchers Pack' by Kartoffelkuchen. I just figured that part out yesterday... I think, didn't get a chance to test.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/tree/master/Subassemblies or https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/tree/master/Ships

Edited September 23, 2015 by Trolllception

[emb110]

Has anyone been able to get Honeyfox's Etc to work in Rss/Ro in Ksp 1.04. Am able to assign the engine to a group but there is no icon to launch the control function of the different groups

[NathanKell]

Trollception: Awesome, looking through! And good luck.

davidy12: As Trollception says, RO comes with a number of craft files that should have been installed if you installed via CKAN, and are in the Ships folder in the zip if you installed manually.

emb110: Engine Thrust Controller's functionality is basically handled by RealFuels itself. Do you mean Engine Group Controller (by asmi, bundled with RO) instead?

[emb110]

Trollception: Awesome, looking through! And good luck.

davidy12: As Trollception says, RO comes with a number of craft files that should have been installed if you installed via CKAN, and are in the Ships folder in the zip if you installed manually.

emb110: Engine Thrust Controller's functionality is basically handled by RealFuels itself. Do you mean Engine Group Controller (by asmi, bundled with RO) instead?

I guess, how do you throttle 1 engine down to let's say 50% and another such as booster down to 93%

- - - Updated - - -

Ok just updated Ro and now have icon to control engine thrust

Thanks