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r4pt0r

By r4pt0r
in Science & Spaceflight

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Godot

Godot

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Posted
To ease discussions on Plutonian geology and surface features, I made this map with the official unofficial names used by the New Horizons team. Still working on a Charon one.

http://s29.postimg.org/sbo7ce6mt/map.png

I love the reference to Cthulhu, the great old one.

Any chance that one feature will get named Mi-Go, as reference to the elder beings who, according to lovecraftian mythology live on Pluto/Yuggoth?

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Aethon

Aethon

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Posted (edited)

*Speculation*

I'm not sure I'm seeing erosion on Pluto, but I'm trying to come up with an erosion mechanism that doesn't require liquid.

N2 snow on Pluto is not going to be slippery like Earth snow (I'm pretty sure even the water ice Mts. won't be slippery) it will be more like sand or fine ash, but under the .06g of Pluto it won't be held to the surface as strongly as here on Earth. If there is erosion, perhaps it's a form of Nitrogen glaciation where the 'snow' slides to lower elevations, altering the terrain.

I can't wait for more images! That little piano all the way out there, chock full of science, and we can't see it. It's killing me!

Worse than waiting for x-mas as an eight year old.

E: Oh and what makes a moat around a boulder on Xaron?

Edited by Aethon
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Aethon

Aethon

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I was editing as you were typing. Sorry.

- - - Updated - - -

Pluto had/has an underground ocean (which the new images seem to suggest), it would slowly be freezing into ice, so the planet should actually be getting slightly larger if anything..

Perhaps the ocean is deeper below the surface and the shrinkage ( Do women know about shrinkage??) occurred in the upper portions of the crust.

We'll need to send a geologist there ASAP.

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Emperoreddy

Emperoreddy

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Charon trying to get in on the fun of making us confused. How does one create a mountain in a moat?

Also we got craters, so maybe the idea that the lack of craters on Pluto is do to the impact rate being less in the Kuiper Belt might not be the correct way to look. I look forward to tomorrow's press conference and more data.

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lajoswinkler

lajoswinkler

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Speculation 1. Conductive heat transfer. As the mountain is made out of material more heat conductive than the cryogenic fluff that caught everywhere during the last winter (water ice mountain), interior heat crawls through the mountain and causes the nearby fluff to sublimate away, creating a moat. Compare with a warm spoon pressing against dry ice block.

Speculation 2. Convective heat transfer. Heated* cryogenic volatiles occasionally seep out through half buried mountain which is actually an ancient cryovolcanic caldera. At the spot where side vents are, sublimation of the surrounding fluff occurs. Moat is formed.

*temperatures are VERY low; heat and temperature are two different things!

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Frida Space

Frida Space

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Posted (edited)
Speculation 1. Conductive heat transfer. As the mountain is made out of material more heat conductive than the cryogenic fluff that caught everywhere during the last winter (water ice mountain), interior heat crawls through the mountain and causes the nearby fluff to sublimate away, creating a moat. Compare with a warm spoon pressing against dry ice block.

Speculation 2. Convective heat transfer. Heated* cryogenic volatiles occasionally seep out through half buried mountain which is actually an ancient cryovolcanic caldera. At the spot where side vents are, sublimation of the surrounding fluff occurs. Moat is formed.

*temperatures are VERY low; heat and temperature are two different things!

^ I very much like those, especially the first one. It could also explain why the mountains appear so pointy even though we don't know (yet) of any erosion process going on.

I remember reading somewhere that the Charon's anti-pole could be nitrogen and methane coming from Pluto's surface which were able to freeze to the ground only where it was cold enough (Charon's pole), and were later transformed into non-volatile tholins by UV solar radiation and cosmic rays, so that's why even now that the pole is facing the sun the darkish material isn't sublimating.

I remember reading this somewhere, but I can't find the link anymore and I'm not sure either if I remember it correctly. To me it seems plausible, anyone has anything to point out on this theory?

Also, here's my two speculations:

1. Pluto has a liquid underground ocean which is helping in conserving the radioactive heat from inside.

2. A bit wilder maybe, the seasonal sublimation and deposition of ice masses causes a shift in mass distribution (most likely asymmetrical), which in turn leads to an unbalance in the orientation of the tidal lock and causes weird perturbations which drive some activity on both bodies. This weird perturbation could for a brief time lead to a positive feedback, but I believe that after some time things tend to stabilize.

- - - Updated - - -

Is the press conference happening right now? NASA site hasn't updated New Horizons in a while.

You guys are pretty silent too. I'm at work, you're my eyes and ears!

New images in two hours! 17 UT / 13 ET / 19 CE

Edited by Frida Space
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Aethon

Aethon

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Speculation 1.

Hmm. I like it. I was working on similar speculation that maybe the boulder (moated) was darker, absorbing more solar radiation and melting the surrounding area, like a black rock in a snowbank.

Can't wait for the press conference.

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lajoswinkler

lajoswinkler

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^ I very much like those, especially the first one. It could also explain why the mountains appear so pointy even though we don't know (yet) of any erosion process going on.

I remember reading somewhere that the Charon's anti-pole could be nitrogen and methane coming from Pluto's surface which were able to freeze to the ground only where it was cold enough (Charon's pole), and were later transformed into non-volatile tholins by UV solar radiation and cosmic rays, so that's why even now that the pole is facing the sun the darkish material isn't sublimating.

I remember reading this somewhere, but I can't find the link anymore and I'm not sure either if I remember it correctly. To me it seems plausible, anyone has anything to point out on this theory?

Also, here's my two speculations:

1. Pluto has a liquid underground ocean which is helping in conserving the radioactive heat from inside.

2. A bit wilder maybe, the seasonal sublimation and deposition of ice masses causes a shift in mass distribution (most likely asymmetrical), which in turn leads to an unbalance in the orientation of the tidal lock and causes weird perturbations which drive some activity on both bodies. This weird perturbation could for a brief time lead to a positive feedback, but I believe that after some time things tend to stabilize.

- - - Updated - - -

New images in two hours! 17 UT / 13 ET / 19 CE

Liquid would not help to conserve the heat. It would transfer it to the surface by convection.

Perturbation you're describing would be very weak as the mass of the material is very small. Question is if it's enough, and we can't know that at this point.

Hmm. I like it. I was working on similar speculation that maybe the boulder (moated) was darker, absorbing more solar radiation and melting the surrounding area, like a black rock in a snowbank.

Can't wait for the press conference.

That is indeed a very plausible speculation, good work.

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Camacha

Camacha

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Posted (edited)

Does anyone know the speed New Horizons had during the Pluto flyby as compared to Pluto, and how that compared to the speed the Voyager probes had during their flyby's compared to the respective bodies they were flying by? I mainly get heliocentric and Earth-relative speeds, which are useless for what I want.

I could calculate the speeds by looking at solar system geometry at specific dates and guesstimating a couple of things, but if anyone knows them it would make things rather a lot easier.

Don't go there, I'm already fighting a fire on Facebook over the Ceres spots...

Do not fight that excrement, it is as useless as physically fighting the ocean gods. You really would be better spending your time discussing matters with people closer to reality, as those can be taught how wonderful this exploration is and the little neighborhood we live in :)

There will always be a group of people that will remain steadfast in their thinking, but no amount of actual facts is going to change it anyway.

Edited by Camacha
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Aethon

Aethon

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I've decided to start calling the moated object Persephone ( because she's not supposed to be there like that )- and she's obviously the broken spear point from a prehistoric alien moon hunter. Someone pull the string tied to NH's monkey pilot and have him maneuver back to Pluto please.

Edited by Aethon
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lajoswinkler

lajoswinkler

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You mean against people who believe they are signs of an alien civilization? :D

Them and the people who say it's glowing in the dark, and the army of people who have not zero, but negative knowledge on photography. NASA-s Facebook page is a place where the nutters cavort all the time. ._.

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Camacha

Camacha

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IIRC. It was traveling 30,000 MPH relative to Pluto. Do your own math. :)

Yes, that correspondents nicely with the familiar 14 km/s figure :) Do you have a direct source for that? The numbers from the Voyagers seem less available though.

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Karriz

Karriz

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Those lines kind of look like cracks on the ice like on Europa, but apparently they're possibly caused by sublimation of the ice. It's kind of weird why it forms patterns like that.

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