The Heavy Booster Challenge

[linuxgurugamer]

Edit: Lets try to keep the total number of boosters in a stage to a reasonable number. Anybody can slap together lots of boosters to get almost any size load to orbit. The challenge is to get the largest load with the smallest number of boosters.

The Kerbal Space Center has a problem. All the kerbals who live around presented a petition to them. It seems that there were too many rocket launches, especially at night. They couldn't sleep, and as a result, the available supply of Kerbels for manning the flights was diminishing. They demanded that the space center restrict the number of launches to one a day, and to not do any at night.

This presents a problem. We don't have that much technology yet, and require lots of rockets & launches to get stuff up there

The challenge is in 2 levels, each with 4 parts:

Level 1

 

Technology Allowed

Heavy Rocketry

Fuel Systems

Advanced Construction

Aerodynamics

Advanced Flight Control

Electrics

Space Exploration

Landing

MechJeb

Level 2

All technologies are allowed

Challenge parts

1. Build the rocket which can lift the largest load to orbit.
2. After achieving orbit, the orbit needs to be circularized at 100 km
3. Rocket then needs to be able to boost the load to a larger, 500 KM circular orbit
4. Using the same design (only change is the load), launch another load which is only half the weight of the first load to the same orbits

It can be manned or unmanned. There is no limit on the number of stages.

Definition of circular orbit:

Specified value plus or minus 5% (ie: the 100KM orbit needs to be between 95 and 105, the 500 between 475 and 525)

Rules

1. Only specified technologies listed below
2. KSP Version: 0.25
3. Specific Mod Allowed (this is a change): F.A.R (for realistic physics). Please specify if you are using FAR, I'm going to keep the FAR rockets separate from the stock rockets
4. Mods allowed: anything which doesn't change weights, drag, etc., other than FAR. Modification of standard parts is NOT allowed (ie: don't change an engine to give it more boost)
5. Special Mod: Weights Redone, initially supplied to me by TheCardinal, modified by myself for 0.25. This mod contains a number of custom weights in flat disks, you can mix and match them to get any specific weight in kt. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO MAKE A CUSTOM VERSION OF A WEIGHT if you need a weight not included and don't want to stack. You can get it at kerbalstuff.com: [Moderator removed defunct website link]
   I was recently made aware of the following mod: [Moderator removed defunct website link]
   I will allow this as well. Be aware that this is an older mod, which, while it does work with 0.25, will give you a warning that it is not compatible.
   Also, if your rocket has (for example) fuel tanks or other modules which will make up the load, I'll allow that as well.
6. You can use standard parts instead of Weights Redone if you like, as long as they essentially only add weight and not functionality to the rocket
7. Technology Allowed: See rules for each level
8. MechJeb (or any autopilot, this isn't a piloting challenge)
9. While not required, it would be nice if the payload is detachable (ie: left in orbit)
10. You can use any mode (sandbox, career or science), however, only the specified technologies are allowed in the final rocket.
11. Prove, through photos and video, that you actually did what you say you did.
12. All ships will need to be made available for me to examine. It would be nice if permission was given to share with the world, but not necessary.
13. Launches must occur in daylight
14. No cheats are allowed. (ie: No F12, etc)
15. No debug menu
16. No cheaty mods (hyperedit, for example)
17. Only a few part mods are allowed. All stock-a-like mods are acceptable. Otherwise, nothing else unless otherwise stated.
18. All visual mods allowed

For bragging rights

Launch two and dock them together at 500 KM orbit. If you try this, then the additional technology of Specialized Construction (for the Level 1 part of the challenge) will be allowed, but only for access to the docking ports. Don't use any other parts from the Specialized Construction technology

Scoring

Very simple. He/she who can hoist the largest load into orbit to fulfill the four conditions listed in the Challenge Parts section above wins (for each level). There will be winners for each level. You do NOT have to enter a rocket in both levels.

Also, (this is an addition), I will allow non-FAR entries, and will keep them separate from the FAR entries (see rule 3)

If the rocket is adaptable, meaning that the same rocket can hoist lighter loads to higher orbit (throttable or some other way), then a bonus of 10% will be awarded.

Scoring Categories will be based on the maximum number of boosters in the a stage. For example, if you have a single SRB in the first stage, but two liquid rockets in the second stage, then the category will be a 2 rocket category. Note that if you have a single booster in the first stage which does NOT get the rocket off the pad, it won't count!

Special circumstance for scoring: If, for example, you have two stages which can be combined if necessary for a heavier load (ie: multiple sets of SRBs in initial stage, half of which can be started at a time, all are jettisioned at the same time, but all can be started if necessary for a very heavy load), then the first stage is considered to be all of them as if they were all firing.

Scoreboard

Totally stock (not using FAR)

Level 1

12 engine, 18T: LinuxGuruGamer - Rescue 5

Level 2

19 engine, 600T: astrobond - XLarge Lifter 600T

 

Using FAR

Level 1

Level 2

37 engine, 1000T: chengong - 1000T (waiting on craft file for verification, and confirmation it was using FAR)

Edited August 28, 2022 by James Kerman
link removed

[TJPrime]

1. Using the same rocket, launch another load which is only half the weight of the first load to the same orbits
   

When you say 'Same rocket', do you mean same design or literally the same rocket? Also, can we jump to level 2? And we can use part mods, right? Like fairings and KW and such?

[linuxgurugamer]

Same design. Only difference is the load

No part mods, please

And you can do either level, one is NOT dependent on the other. I created the two levels so that beginners would have a decent chance of being able to do this.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

Again, no barring of the F-12 menu, so I can use infinite fuel, electric, hack gravity ETC...

Unfortunately, after lengthy discussion previously, some 'house-rules' were discussed and agreed upon, but typically the post itself has disappeared into the foum history, until someone comments on it or it finally gets stickied >.<

So, you have to say that specific cheats are not allowed, as well as barring some mods... but you have left yourself open to cheaty, over-powered engines (basically, changing the engines parameters without making them look any different to stock) with rule 4. Mods allowed: anything which doesn't change weights, drag, etc., other than FAR. as well as people using the F-12 menu.

Also, you have made this a FAR-only challenge... other challenge-setters simply have seperate leaderboards for the different mods that do change the aerodynamic model, so people using stock can join in...

As usual, I mean no malice or agressiveness, just trying to point out a few holes in your current rules!

[linuxgurugamer]

Sorry, I beg to differ. Changing engine parameters is barred by rule 4. However, I did add a clarification to the rule.

I was in the process of amending the rules re. the cheat (just never thought about it), it's been fixed already.

Again, no offense taken.

I've amended it to allow non-FAR entries, and will keep track of those entries separately

Edited December 8, 2014 by linuxgurugamer

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

cool as and getting you to confirm that just helps to make it as obvious as possible what you mean - now no-one else can argue it, you have already stated exactly what you mean by it

I will post my current Launch Vehicles soon... one uses only 2x of the largest Kerbodyne tanks and the SLS engine to lift about 20 tons (EDIT; but just re-read the rules and will need to tweak them so they can do the extra orbital maneuvers...)

[chengong]

Simple 1000t to orbit

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[linuxgurugamer]

cool as and getting you to confirm that just helps to make it as obvious as possible what you mean - now no-one else can argue it, you have already stated exactly what you mean by it

I will post my current Launch Vehicles soon... one uses only 2x of the largest Kerbodyne tanks and the SLS engine to lift about 20 tons (EDIT; but just re-read the rules and will need to tweak them so they can do the extra orbital maneuvers...)

Looking forward to seeing it.

On a side note, I'm going to post one later this evening as an example. My post will NOT be included in the scoring, it will be an example I will use to discuss the rules a bit more.

[linuxgurugamer]

Simple 1000t to orbit

http://imgur.com/a/RQkuK

@chengong Looks good. I need the craft file to be able to verify which entry it belongs in, and to count the number of boosters.

I just looked at the pics a bit more. Did you get to low orbit, circularize and then raise it to a higher orbit?

Also, were you using FAR or not?

Edited December 8, 2014 by linuxgurugamer

[astrobond]

Hi All

Here is my 600T pure payload lifter with some tanks added to reach 500km...

Full Stock + MechJeb2.

The craft file: "XLarge Lifter 600T 500km.craft"

The 600T Album:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

The 300T Album:

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Edited December 8, 2014 by astrobond

[linuxgurugamer]

OK. Here is a ship that I'm using as a test bed for a rescue mission:

The first stage is configured to fire either 8 or 12 boosters at once. This lets the rocket be able to boost a lighter load higher up.

However, I would consider this a 12 engine rocket, because all 12 can be used at the same time.

The second stage consists of 4 liquid fuel engines. Because there are 12 boosters in the 1st stage, the entire ship is considered a 12 engine rocket. On the other hand, if there were more rockets in the 2nd stage than 1st stage, the larger number would take precedence.

I hope this is clear, please ask questions if you have any.

[chengong]

@chengong Looks good. I need the craft file to be able to verify which entry it belongs in, and to count the number of boosters.

I just looked at the pics a bit more. Did you get to low orbit, circularize and then raise it to a higher orbit?

Also, were you using FAR or not?

The payload is mod, also I think I used B9 fins by accident. Anyway I'm not that interested because I still don't understand what we're supposed to do here. You have 2 levels and 4 challenges, but then you tell us to fulfill the 3 conditions. what three conditions?

And what's the point of launching to 100km orbit if we're gonna launch to 500km anyway? why?

and how does this scoring work? The person with the most number of seperatrons would clearly win because they have most number of boosters?

[linuxgurugamer]

The levels are to differentiate the different levels of technology. This is to allow beginners to be able to complete with very experienced players in the Level 1 challenge.

You can enter in either level, or both. Each entry must be able to fulful the Challenge parts.

re. the three conditions, that's a typo, it should be (and I'm changing it to) four, sorry about that.

For scoring, rockets with 1 booster per stage are compared to each other, rockets with a max of 2 boosters in a stage are compared, rockets with a max of 3 boosters, etc.

LinuxGuruGamer

[chengong]

For scoring, rockets with 1 booster per stage are compared to each other, rockets with a max of 2 boosters in a stage are compared, rockets with a max of 3 boosters, etc.

LinuxGuruGamer

well that just seems incredibly stupid because no two person would have the same amount of boosters for such large payloads. You'll just end up having 20 different leaderbords each with 1 entry.

[AlonzoTG]

Mine has ten 3.75 m procedural parts boosters. I'm using a 10M stack with three stages and OMFG number of KR-2L engines tweakscaled to 1.25m. I'm annoyed by the nonstandard 2m payload. =\

I had to use the HX reaction wheels from B9, There are two of them in the stack. I am using Ferram.

I already had a 600 ton capable lifter in my arsenal... but it was using a semi-cheaty engine based on the Apollo F1 design, but I changed it so I could shut it off and re-start it. I then went back to see what I could do with KR-2L's.

Okay, latest version just made orbit, 576m/sec left in the tank.... carrying a payload of 1,200 tons.

[linuxgurugamer]

Each to his own. I'm not going to argue. If I end up with 20 winning entries, then so be it.

On the other hand, maybe some people will take this as a challenge to try to remake their rockets using fewer boosters.

Honestly, I hadn't thought about the sheer number of boosters when I wrote this, I'm still a beginner with the game and so far haven't done anything nearly as large as what I've seen. The ship I posted earlier for an example is about the largest I've made (ignoring the 35 SRB ship I made the 2nd day I was playing). My ship design is being driven by FAR (which I'm using) and the need right now to go rescue a kerbal which ended up in a solar orbit. I haven't even landed on a planet yet :-)

And the two orbits? Well, if you are trying to put a station together in high orbit, after the first section is there, you will need to do the two orbits in order to have the later sections rendezvous with the first.

Edited December 9, 2014 by linuxgurugamer

[linuxgurugamer]

Lets try to keep the total number of boosters in a stage to a reasonable number. Anybody can slap together lots of boosters to get almost any size load to orbit.

The challenge is to get the largest load with the smallest number of boosters.

I appreciate ALL entries, but I realize I did leave it wide open for abuse re. the number of boosters.

Thanks

[Laie]

This is the clone 15 (craft file, capable of taking a payload of 15x 41t to 100km, then 500km, then decouple. The docking ports will connect on the launchpad. It's trivial to extend this to nearly any size, though about squarish-shapes will work best of course. If you copy the subassemly over to the SPH, the runway is about 15 lifters wide, and long enough for a thousand or so. In it's current shape, it's a bit overengineered: I'd recommend 4000u of battery capacity for every 20-25 clones; the RTGs aren't necessary.

As I'm bandwidth-constrained and you want to certify the craft files anyway, I'd ask you to just launch it (see ascent profile displayed on the screen). If you want to add or remove some boosters, try clicking the lower docking ports. Important: reduce maximum acceleration to 15m/s² when the apoapsis reaches 30km, limit to 8m/s² when apoapsis approaches 50km. I recommend to leave it at that for orbital maneuvers.

That's four boosters for every 41t of payload. Maximum payload is only limited by part count / your patience. Though I expect that if you want to take it beyond 7x7 or so, it will become necessary to place struts in addition to the docking ports.

[linuxgurugamer]

http://ksp.schnobs.de/stuff/clone.jpg

This is the clone 15 (craft file, capable of taking a payload of 15x 41t to 100km, then 500km, then decouple. The docking ports will connect on the launchpad. It's trivial to extend this to nearly any size, though about squarish-shapes will work best of course. If you copy the subassemly over to the SPH, the runway is about 15 lifters wide, and long enough for a thousand or so. In it's current shape, it's a bit overengineered: I'd recommend 4000u of battery capacity for every 20-25 clones; the RTGs aren't necessary.

As I'm bandwidth-constrained and you want to certify the craft files anyway, I'd ask you to just launch it (see ascent profile displayed on the screen). If you want to add or remove some boosters, try clicking the lower docking ports. Important: reduce maximum acceleration to 15m/s² when the apoapsis reaches 30km, limit to 8m/s² when apoapsis approaches 50km. I recommend to leave it at that for orbital maneuvers.

That's four boosters for every 41t of payload. Maximum payload is only limited by part count / your patience. Though I expect that if you want to take it beyond 7x7 or so, it will become necessary to place struts in addition to the docking ports.

Umm, kind of over the edge of the launch pad???

Thanks for the entry, I'll test it tonite.

[Laie]

Umm, kind of over the edge of the launch pad???

Nope. 5x5 will still fit nicely, and 6x6 maybe. If you want more, you may either add lauch clamps (they can go under[/] the Kerbodyne clusters), or move over to the runway, which is about 15 rockets wide.

[linuxgurugamer]

Nope. 5x5 will still fit nicely, and 6x6 maybe. If you want more, you may either add lauch clamps (they can go under[/] the Kerbodyne clusters), or move over to the runway, which is about 15 rockets wide.

I tried this on a stock, non-FAR install. I can't even get to the launch pad, it blows up immediately

Using FAR, it also blew up on the pad, but I was able to get it launched by launching immediately, before it had a chance to blow up.

Why do you say to limit the acceleration at the higher altitudes?

I'm not sure I can allow this, you are taking multiple large loads all tied together in a single launch, not a single load. What would happen if you replace all those loads with a single load the same size on the central booster?

[Laie]

Is the rocket blowing up or is it that you have destructible buildings enabled (I switched that off long ago)? I've updated the craft file with clamps, that should be safe.

Reducing the acceleration saves a lot of delta-v during the ascent. The rocket can't complete the required mission if you just let mechjeb have its way. Also, once the upper stage has burned most of its fuel, the unbridled thrust of the engines would tear the craft apart.

That is a single load, in a fashion: They're all docked to each other and will stay together after decoupling.

Using this to launch something useful would be silly, but doable with struts. The bigger it gets, the more struts you will need (few at the edges, many towards the center). But really, this is a useless design for practical purposes, it's only playing to the challenge: the basic layout can be copied and cloned as often as you like, lifting payloads of unlimited weight as long as you have patience enough to sit through it. I've tried a 5x9 cluster, once, just to see if it works. Indeed it does, but at 900 parts I aborted the launch once I was out of the worst. Beyond 12x12, it may become necessary to use struts in addition to the docking ports.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Laie

[linuxgurugamer]

I did get it to orbit (both of them), so technically it works. But, you are essentially taking a single rocket and cloning it next to each other. Being docked together doesn't make something a single item, it is two items docked together.

[Laie]

But, you are essentially taking a single rocket and cloning it next to each other.

That's the entire point. You can clone it as often as you want in order to (cue manical laughter) lift infinite weight.

Being docked together doesn't make something a single item, it is two items docked together.

OK, updated the craft file once more. See? No docking ports. I even put engines, a thermomenter and an antenna on it -- they payload isn't just any old dead weight, but a science probe: a proper spacecraft.

[linuxgurugamer]

That's the entire point. You can clone it as often as you want in order to (cue manical laughter) lift infinite weight.

OK, updated the craft file once more. See? No docking ports. I even put engines, a thermomenter and an antenna on it -- they payload isn't just any old dead weight, but a science probe: a proper spacecraft.

ok. I'll look at it this evening. Kudos for being willing to update to keep the spirit of the rules