parts [1.12.x] Sounding Rockets! Start small. Dream big!

[Shipwright1912]

Umm, slight issue with this mod and the new 1.0 of KSP, at least with me. All the parts work all right except the science experiments, I can't get the menu to pop up when I right-click on them, so they're useless for cultivating any science. Anybody else have this issue?

[RoverDude]

Nope, they work fine in 1.0

Do you have that community science thingie installed? the one that adds a bunch of descriptions?

[Shipwright1912]

Erm, can you be more specific, maybe provide a link? I'm not sure if I have that or not, the only thing that comes to mind is the Crowd-Sourced Science logs, y'know the custom flavor text for all the science popups when you run an experiment.

[DaPatman]

Erm, can you be more specific, maybe provide a link? I'm not sure if I have that or not, the only thing that comes to mind is the Crowd-Sourced Science logs, y'know the custom flavor text for all the science popups when you run an experiment.

I would guess that is what he means. I don't use it myself, but I'm given to understand Crowd-Sourced Science doesn't play nicely with other mods that add new science experiments.

[Shipwright1912]

Well, in the .90 I had both mods installed and the science modules for the sounding rockets worked fine (I'm getting the feeling a lot of things that went okay for .90 are going to have to be reworked to be compatible or be pruned out). As I wrote, the issue I'm having is that nothing happens when I right-click on the modules, no popup windows or buttons, so that means I can't run the science experiments and the modules are essentially dead weight on my spacecraft, which is a real bummer, for they were a favorite of mine to put on probes and rovers since they were lightweight and cheap, and you could run them over and over again provided you still had any juice left in the batts, which made it easy to fly or roll into the next biome on a planet/moon and reap beaucoup science points from a single mission.

[goldenpsp]

Well, in the .90 I had both mods installed and the science modules for the sounding rockets worked fine (I'm getting the feeling a lot of things that went okay for .90 are going to have to be reworked to be compatible or be pruned out). As I wrote, the issue I'm having is that nothing happens when I right-click on the modules, no popup windows or buttons, so that means I can't run the science experiments and the modules are essentially dead weight on my spacecraft, which is a real bummer, for they were a favorite of mine to put on probes and rovers since they were lightweight and cheap, and you could run them over and over again provided you still had any juice left in the batts, which made it easy to fly or roll into the next biome on a planet/moon and reap beaucoup science points from a single mission.

I can confirm that they work in both 1.0 and 1.0.2 so I would suspect an installation or mod conflict issue.

[Shipwright1912]

Okay, I'll see if cleaning up and starting over from scratch will help, thanks for all the input!

[Shipwright1912]

Okay, that did it, it's working fine now. Thanks again!

[Gfurst]

Okay, I'll see if cleaning up and starting over from scratch will help, thanks for all the input!

Yup, I do have Sounding Rockets and Crowded Science thing, and they do not conflict...

--------------------------------

RoverDude, I'm about to drop a bomb on your lap:

I went all the configurations files and thought I do some balancing. It works fine for me so I thought I throw it in here as a suggestion if you so desire to implement or not.

Please let me know if I'm stepping out of boundaries here.

What I did was recalculate the values for price, mass, thrust, Isp and fuel for solid rockets. I took as base the RT-10 and BACC boosters from stock, also took the scaled parts parameters with tweakscale.

Now, we all know that stock isn't exactly balanced as it is, but with rough approximations I think the result ended up pretty good. The values are very near, with the exception of mass and Isp.

I've also added a long 0.625 rocket, copy of the 0.350 scaled up. The result seems pretty good, rockets now shoot up faster and go further, should be easy to go sub-orbital but still not orbital.

They are also very useful for other tasks such as: - pushing airplane up further their operational ceiling - serving as middle ground for boosters - easing speed for landing.

The following is my actual patch file:

@PART[SR_ProbeCore]:FOR[UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
	!maximum_drag = 0				// deprecated, could be safely stripped down
	!minimum_drag = 0
	@cost = 250
	@maxTemp = 1200				// fragile
	!MODULE[ModuleSAS]{}			// no SAS for early probe
}

@PART[SR_Rocket_35_01]:FOR[UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
	!MODULE[USI_DropTank]{}			// obviously optional only for me
	@maxTemp = 1600				// cardboard isn't it?
	@cost = 24
	@mass = 0.032
	@crashTolerance = 6
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines]
	{
		@maxThrust = 10
		useEngineResponseTime = true		// acceleration takes a bit of time
		engineAccelerationSpeed = 6.0
		!atmosphereCurve{}
		atmosphereCurve
		{
			key = 0 162
			key = 1 150
			key = 6 0.001
		}
	}
	@RESOURCE[SolidFuel]
	{
		@amount = 12
		@maxAmount = 12
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleSurfaceFX		// new stock launch effects
		thrustProviderModuleIndex = 0
		fxMax = 0.5
		maxDistance = 24
		falloff = 1
		thrustTransformName = thrustTransform
	}
}

@PART[SR_Rocket_35_02]:FOR[UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
	!MODULE[USI_DropTank]{}
	@TechRequired = basicRocketry
	@maxTemp = 1600
	@cost = 36
	@mass = 0.045
	@crashTolerance = 7
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines]
	{
		@maxThrust = 14
		useEngineResponseTime = true
		engineAccelerationSpeed = 8.0
		!atmosphereCurve{}
		atmosphereCurve
		{
			key = 0 180
			key = 1 165
			key = 6 0.001
		}
	}
	@RESOURCE[SolidFuel]
	{
		@amount = 18
		@maxAmount = 18
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleSurfaceFX
		thrustProviderModuleIndex = 0
		fxMax = 0.5
		maxDistance = 24
		falloff = 1
		thrustTransformName = thrustTransform
	}
}

@PART[SR_Rocket_625_01]:FOR[UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
	!MODULE[USI_DropTank]{}
	@maxTemp = 2000
	@cost = 120
	@mass = 0.175
	@crashTolerance = 7
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines]
	{
		@maxThrust = 48
		useEngineResponseTime = true
		engineAccelerationSpeed = 8.0
		!atmosphereCurve{}
		atmosphereCurve
		{
			key = 0 162
			key = 1 150
			key = 6 0.001
		}
	}
	@RESOURCE[SolidFuel]
	{
		@amount = 70
		@maxAmount = 70
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleSurfaceFX
		thrustProviderModuleIndex = 0
		fxMax = 0.7
		maxDistance = 30
		falloff = 1
		thrustTransformName = thrustTransform
	}
}

+PART[SR_Rocket_35_02]:AFTER[UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
	@name = SR_Rocket_625_02		// the new longer 625 tank
	@rescaleFactor = 1.7857
	!fx_exhaustFlame_yellow_tiny
	fx_exhaustFlame_yellow_small = 0.0, -0.17, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, running
	@TechRequired = generalRocketry
	@title = SRM-XL Sounding Rocket extended
	@description = test
	@cost = 200
	@mass = 0.340
	@maxTemp = 2000
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines]
	{
		@maxThrust=64
	}
	@RESOURCE[SolidFuel]
	{
		@amount = 140
		@maxAmount = 140
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleSurfaceFX
		thrustProviderModuleIndex = 0
		fxMax = 0.7
		maxDistance = 30
		falloff = 1
		thrustTransformName = thrustTransform
	}
}

[Gfurst]

Ohh just thought I share this too: https://youtu.be/UXuLzOvp-hc

A sounding rocket by all means.

Pretty cool to hear the time effects as it passes through atmosphere then vacuum. The spinning too, that at the time didn't know what it was for.

[Sarxis]

Such a fun mod RoverDude Like playing with model rockets, but with science!

I don't depend on the nosecone chutes though because I've had no luck landing with them, even in water. I just stick a realchute on the last stage's nozzle node at the bottom of the rocket.

[RoverDude]

@gfurst - awesome! Thanks for saving me a ton of work

[Overlocker]

The Sounding Rockets are a very useful when very early at tech tree as an alternative to launching ''Fleas'' with command pods on top of them, but I think the science experiments work a bit OP when you can use it EVERYWHERE. So I don't mean that it can't be used anywhere but the Kerbin atmosphere, because I like the idea of using it with KIS on other planets, but I prefer to only use it on ATMOSPHERES, because is more realistic. Think about in normal TechTree or CTT you can use it to do near all the early records and contracts unti you reach the Orbit Kerbin one, then other rockets are more useful, so the idea of atmospheric only experiments will be great

[Gfurst]

@gfurst - awesome! Thanks for saving me a ton of work

But before you do any updating... I have tweaked again a few bits, every rocket alone have about 2000~2200dV, but actually reduces drastically if stacking up together. They weren't getting very far.

The problem is like any other SR booster, it doesn't help much to get them stacked, unlike LFO were you can have one engine and stack up more fuel.

Still the sounding rockets weren't get much further with a 15k altitude limit, which is not intuitive given their slim proportion, they should be shooting up still.

I've tracked this issue to the the aero changes, 1.0.2 basically made the aero more like it was before, 1.0 had a little better characteristics. But it turns out to be related with the aero system overhaul.

From (I think) one of the devs:

Fellow Kerbonauts,

.....

I would try to explain a bit about how complex the new aerodynamic and thermodynamic system is, and just how big of an undertaking the system has been up to this point. Perhaps that will lend some insight as to why finding a good balance is quite difficult.

.....

The basic drag system for most parts is based off of a cube system. Every time KSP starts up, it looks into the PartDatabase.cfg file and checks for all the cubes. If a cube doesn't exist for a part, then KSP generates a drag cube for that part and stores it in the database.

- This has the advantage that you can (generally) look at the shape of the part to figure out what will be less draggy and what will be more draggy.

- However, this also causes issues with hollow parts (such as cargo bays) which have incorrectly built drag cubes.

.....

Part occlusion is accomplished only through node connections. Parts that are connected to other parts via nodes have the size of that cube's face reduced by the size of the parent/child part. So surface mounted parts are not occluded from drag. (This is why stuff built with lots of things hanging off suffers a lot of drag.)

- Because of how drag cubes are built, open ended model parts can cause problems. Not all of these parts were adjusted to account for this, which is why there is some imbalance.

.....

So, on top of all that, many parts have special cases. As noted above, parts that have open models (such as a cargo bay) can cause issues with part occlusion. Models with multiple cube types (such as parachutes) need to be built and adjusted properly. With all these special cases, I'm sure some of them were missed getting updated. On top of that, with any change to the global modifiers, it throws all of the other parts out of balance. It's a difficult act to balance. So yes, feedback is more than welcome. But if you want your feedback heard, avoid clouding it with too much angst and frustration.

.....

Cheers,

~Claw

so to sum up, I was getting lots of drag in the sounding rockets, once the thrust ends they come to an halting break and I was finding that odd.

So based off Claw's post above, the drag cubes generated could be pretty incorrect for parts such as chutes and fairings, both pretty important as the nosecone and payload of sounding rockets.

Don't know much of what can be done to fix this, besides having custom drag cube definitions, and for that I haven't seen any reference or documentation about, so ...

On the bright side, nuFAR is just around the corner, and I'll be testing it.

[Gfurst]

Reporting back, and it is as I've imagined, with FAR the rockets get speed up like they should:

Shooting up to sub-orbital flight, now it should be more interesting to do some angled launches. Thought we need proper module for the fins to produce lift, but the stock ones they do finally spin like a boss..

Oh, and as a side note, the CoM for the longer rockets are unreasonably low, about 1/4 of its height, which sometimes is a little problematic.

Annnd some bonus issues:

This is the duplicate with realchutes, this is the only that it happens with, the 350 nosecone.

Floating fairing. This was takenon my earlier missions, with stock aero.

[waerth]

Dont know if it was asked before or if it is unrealistic but sounding rockets with liquid propellant?

[RoverDude]

They exist - you have a 0.35m aerospike, and 0.625m long LFO tanks

[waerth]

Really, guess I didnt unlock them yet than Sorry.

[Smurfalot]

No matter which way I place the avionics package, I get an engineer report shows that it is facing the wrong way. Also if you use the first stage rocket as the root part it will not decouple itself when it runs out of fuel....this is obvious now, but I found out the hard way. The SRBs probably should not be designated as a possible root part.

[futrtrubl]

No matter which way I place the avionics package, I get an engineer report shows that it is facing the wrong way. Also if you use the first stage rocket as the root part it will not decouple itself when it runs out of fuel....this is obvious now, but I found out the hard way. The SRBs probably should not be designated as a possible root part.

Unfortunately you can't stop it from being the root part without also disabling the ability to stack attach things to it.

[Smurfalot]

The .625m nosecone parachute is mislabeled as .35m

Also the nosecone parachutes are duplicated in both the utility and parachutes tab (may be added by RealChutes, not sure).

[futrtrubl]

The .625m nosecone parachute is mislabeled as .35m

Also the nosecone parachutes are duplicated in both the utility and parachutes tab (may be added by RealChutes, not sure).

That would be realchutes. It's the one that makes the parachutes tab, but it is supposed to move them so best to send a bug report their way.

[kiwiak]

I have two small questions:

- Do fins provide some sort of controll? They dont move when i try to steer rocket.

- Why is remote controll transmiter radially attached? It makes hard to have proper navball orientation this way.

[UnanimousCoward]

I have two small questions:

- Do fins provide some sort of controll? They dont move when i try to steer rocket.

- Why is remote controll transmiter radially attached? It makes hard to have proper navball orientation this way.

All the sounding rockets are uncontrollable - they're fire and forget. You can't steer them. Minor control over flight direction can be achieved with careful balancing of the payload, rotating the craft in the VAB, and/or with the launch sticks.

Fins provide stability by lowering your centre of lift, preventing your rocket from flipping over in flight.

Given that you can't control the rockets anyway, proper navball orientation isn't important. If it really bothers you, though, you could try rotating the entire craft in the VAB by 90°/180°/270° and see if that lines things up.

[Gfurst]

The .625m nosecone parachute is mislabeled as .35m

Also the nosecone parachutes are duplicated in both the utility and parachutes tab (may be added by RealChutes, not sure).

As mentioned above its because of Realchutes, if you want I've made a patch to make SR compatible with RC. I've asked on their thread to add the to their release but they didn't.

Anyway you can just copy this text and place on a txt.cfg file anywhere in your gamedata folder (that you will remember), and done.

@PART[SR_Nosecone_35]:FOR[RealChute]
{

	@category = none
	@mass = 0.005
	!sound_parachute_open
	!sound_parachute_single

	!MODULE[ModuleParachute]{}

	MODULE
	{
		name = RealChuteModule
		caseMass = 0.005
		timer = 0
		mustGoDown = true
		cutSpeed = 0.5
		spareChutes = 1

		PARACHUTE
		{
			material = Nylon
			preDeployedDiameter = 1
			deployedDiameter = 8
			minIsPressure = false
			minPressure = 0.1
			minDeployment = 6000
			deploymentAlt = 600
			cutAlt = -1
			preDeploymentSpeed = 2
			deploymentSpeed = 8
			preDeploymentAnimation = PreDeploy
			deploymentAnimation = Deploy
			parachuteName = String
			capName = Cap
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ProceduralChute
	}

	EFFECTS
	{
		rcpredeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_open
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcdeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_single
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rccut
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_cut
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcrepack
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_repack
				volume = 1
			}
		}
	}
}

@PART[SR_Nosecone_625]:FOR[RealChute]
{

	@category = none
	@mass = 0.01
	!sound_parachute_open
	!sound_parachute_single

	!MODULE[ModuleParachute]{}

	MODULE
	{
		name = RealChuteModule
		caseMass = 0.01
		timer = 0
		mustGoDown = true
		cutSpeed = 0.5
		spareChutes = 1

		PARACHUTE
		{
			material = Nylon
			preDeployedDiameter = 2
			deployedDiameter = 16
			minIsPressure = false
			minPressure = 0.1
			minDeployment = 6000
			deploymentAlt = 600
			cutAlt = -1
			preDeploymentSpeed = 2
			deploymentSpeed = 8
			preDeploymentAnimation = PreDeploy
			deploymentAnimation = Deploy
			parachuteName = String
			capName = Cap
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ProceduralChute
	}

	EFFECTS
	{
		rcpredeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_open
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcdeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_single
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rccut
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_cut
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcrepack
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_repack
				volume = 1
			}
		}
	}
}

@PART[SR_PackChute_35]:FOR[RealChute]
{

	@category = none
	@mass = 0.005
	!sound_parachute_open
	!sound_parachute_single

	!MODULE[ModuleParachute]{}

	MODULE
	{
		name = RealChuteModule
		caseMass = 0.005
		timer = 0
		mustGoDown = true
		cutSpeed = 0.5
		spareChutes = 1

		PARACHUTE
		{
			material = Nylon
			preDeployedDiameter = 1
			deployedDiameter = 8
			minIsPressure = false
			minPressure = 0.1
			minDeployment = 6000
			deploymentAlt = 600
			cutAlt = -1
			preDeploymentSpeed = 2
			deploymentSpeed = 8
			preDeploymentAnimation = PreDeploy
			deploymentAnimation = Deploy
			parachuteName = String
			capName = Pack
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ProceduralChute
	}

	EFFECTS
	{
		rcpredeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_open
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcdeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_single
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rccut
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_cut
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcrepack
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_repack
				volume = 1
			}
		}
	}
}