Shuttles that never were (but could have): Soviet MAKS & Lockheed's LS A

[Rune]

Two for the posts of one! Do you think I will get twice the comments that way? xD Well, they do deserve your love, if only for originality. After all, there are not many replicas of concepts that were never built out there in real life, and these two in particular aren't that well known themselves. So to put things into perspective, this is what I was going for (info links in the names):

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[tr]

[td]Lockheed's Phase A shuttle proposal

[/td]

[td]Soviet MAKS Spaceplane

[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

And how well did I do? Well, you'll be the judge of that, but I did try my best!

First off, let me present to you my take on the most beautiful (IMO) of the original Shuttle Phase A proposals, Lockheed's TSTO, high crossrange variant.

Details are scarce indeed (that picture and the link that's there are pretty much the only references I had), but apparently both set of engines fired at the same time, which allows me to tell a funny development story: while the first test flight ended in orbit (which itself is surprising!), that was in spite of one of the most horrible staging errors I have been able to walk away from: I had forgot to put the orbiter engines on the first stage, so my clever parallel staging arrangement with crossfeed was for nought. Good thing I had plenty of excess control authority thanks to the Vernors (keep RCS toggled on during launch!), the rest of the flight went without a hitch and thanks to the ample margin I was still capable of making orbit. If you do things right, actually, you end up with about 750m/s out of the the 2500 the orbiter can be re-filled to.

And what else can I say? Not much really, so watch the album, try out the craft if you like it, and in any case, tell me what you think about it!

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DOWNLOAD:

http://www./download/klp804kczavi1p5/Shuttle+Phase+A.craft

And now, for the other shuttle that never was! This one comes form the other side of the world, a very original concept from the russkies to make use of the world's largest plane (the An-225 Mriya, already in production for the Buran program, for those living under a rock) to launch a small shuttle using a disposable external tank. And not being happy with that much revolution in a single design, the shuttle itself utilized revolutionary tripropellant engines that could run on a kerosene/LH2/LOX mix, increasing thrust at the beginning of the burn and decreasing tankage size and weight, then switching to pure LH2/LOX mode for the highest efficiency possible (and throttling down in the process). But really... what could be more kerbal than launching a rocket form a big plane? That was reason enough to build it in my opinion.

Again, it was a tough balancing act. The Mryia is horribly unbalanced while it has the heavy spaceplane on top, so as soon as the air starts getting thin and you can't use the ton of lifting surfaces on the tail to stabilize, it'll pitch up because of the engines. That, turns out, is kind of a feature: this is the time you want to pitch up to light the rockets up anyway. Afterwards, it's kind of a standard climb to orbit, but keep in mind that T/W is kind of tight at first, so make sure you pitch up slightly to 60º until you time to apoapsis has climbed to at least 30 seconds. The fuel in the external tank runs out just as you get an apoapsis outside the atmosphere, which is handy, and afterwards you need to turn off the main engines and allow the fuel to be drained from the orbiter tanks. Orbit is really tight, unlike in the shuttle, so even if it has a payload bay I wouldn't put anything there much fatter than the MMU already in place. And other than that... yeah, nice pics and the file you've been waiting for:

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DOWNLOAD:

http://www./download/gmwq6iadwae74f8/MAKS+++Mryia.craft

Obviously, and due to KSP's limitations, these two would be horrible for a career game: the stage you leave behind gets deleted as you move away with the orbiter, and you end up not recovering the most expensive part of a supposedly reusable system (and before you ask, I tested: both the Mriya and the Shuttle's booster can get back into the runway perfectly fine... in fact with much more ease than their orbiters). But you know, they are built more for the awesomeness of it all, and without one single thought devoted to budget and reasonable uses. Perfect for the casual flight!

Rune. These aerospace engineers sure come up with crazy ideas.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Rune

[Guest]

built more for the awesomeness

This is awesome! They are extremly good replicas, and just ~300 parts? Incredible!

[Majorjim!]

Well done man, these look like fun to fly and good job balancing these!

I cant wait for multiplayer so one can land the launcher and one the orbiter.

You should try using the stock cargo bays as landing gear bays for the jet. I have them on my large cargo plane and they are awesome.

[Rune]

By the way, can someone tell me why I have transparent parts regarding shadows? It is clearly visible in the shuttle pictures, part from the SP+ expansion like the crew cabin and the cockpit don't cast shadows and seem kind of translucent... something regarding IVAs? I do run a modded install with stuff like texture replacer... maybe that's it? I'll happily rep the guy that solves this since it's very annoying!

Rune. Plus, it's stealing pretty pics from you guys!

[Majorjim!]

By the way, can someone tell me why I have transparent parts regarding shadows? It is clearly visible in the shuttle pictures, part from the SP+ expansion like the crew cabin and the cockpit don't cast shadows and seem kind of translucent... something regarding IVAs? I do run a modded install with stuff like texture replacer... maybe that's it? I'll happily rep the guy that solves this since it's very annoying!

Rune. Plus, it's stealing pretty pics from you guys!

Yeah its a conflict between KVV and EVE. Remove KVV and the issue is gone.

[Rune]

This is awesome! They are extremly good replicas, and just ~300 parts? Incredible!

Thanks! I am kind of known for my use of all the tricks in the bag in the effort to keep part count down. In fact, the MAKS is quite relaxed by my standards... it has composite tanks and stuff!

Well done man, these look like fun to fly and good job balancing these!

I cant wait for multiplayer so one can land the launcher and one the orbiter.

You should try using the stock cargo bays as landing gear bays for the jet. I have them on my large cargo plane and they are awesome.

That seems intriguing... they have enough clearance so you can put them inside and still protrude enough so nothing blows up when you land, I assume? In any case, once closed into their own bays, they are not too ugly... and they kind of get lost in the huge contraption anyway. But I will have a look into it for sure!

Rune. You both posted as I was writing the last post ^^'

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Yeah its a conflict between KVV and EVE. Remove KVV and the issue is gone.

Thanks a million! That's exactly what I was hoping for.

[Majorjim!]

That seems intriguing... they have enough clearance so you can put them inside and still protrude enough so nothing blows up when you land, I assume? In any case, once closed into their own bays, they are not too ugly... and they kind of get lost in the huge contraption anyway. But I will have a look into it for sure!

Thanks a million! That's exactly what I was hoping for.

I used four wheels for the front and four for the rear. The outer two are angled so they don't clip when the bay is closed.

Mapping the bay to G makes for an awesome retracting gear.

And no probs! I had the exact same issue. Also with my KVV I cant use the 'exploded' view. Even after following the correct procedure.. Its a buggy bit of code.

MJ

[Frank_G]

Very nice construction techniques. I love the clear form of those craft. Not the usual plating and wing disaster, that is usually seen on replica craft.

Do you know about the Sänger Projekt? Thats an awesome looking spaceplane concept, too.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saenger_(spacecraft)

[Rune]

Very nice construction techniques. I love the clear form of those craft. Not the usual plating and wing disaster, that is usually seen on replica craft.

Do you know about the Sänger Projekt? Thats an awesome looking spaceplane concept, too.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saenger_(spacecraft)

Thanks! I didn't knew about that one, no, but... honestly? The whole hypersonic carrier plane thing has been studied to death. And some time ago, a very awesome retired ramjet engineer I met on the internets revealed to me why none of those beautiful-in-concept monsters will ever fly: the landing gear. Or to be more precise, the takeoff gear. See, even with the best ramjets you can think of, you are short of limited to about mach 6. Scramjets won't take you much further, and in fact once you put a payload, thermal protection, and boost engines (to fly from the runway to ramjet operating speed), they both probably max out before Mach 7. Which means a very serious rocket on top to get true orbital speed. Which in turn means a really big hypersonic carrier plane. Which in its own turn means the takeoff weight is enormous. They end up being giants on top of toothpicks, and not only do they not fit in any sane runway, they would have such massive sets of undercarriage the payload fraction starts taking a serious hit.

So I kind of dislike them in principle since that day, and it is therefore not likely I will build one in KSP. But who knows? In KSP terms, it would probably work very nicely since airhogging you can get pretty high suborbital trajectories, allowing true recovery of the carrier airplane. The orbiter's required delta-v would be like ridiculously low, though, meaning not very like the RL counterpart.

Rune. Maybe that's something you could tackle yourself!

[DMSP]

Hey Rune, could you post those on KerbalX?

Mediafire sucks...

I want these!

[fenya]

The aircraft-carrier is not very similar to the original, An-225, but the ship still looks very nice.

by the way, I also did this spacecraft.

Thanks BB code list, I finally made spoiler!

Edited February 10, 2015 by fenya

[inigma]

How to make a bb code list spoiler? I'm desperate.

[spoiler:testing]test

Edited February 10, 2015 by inigma

[Majorjim!]

The aircraft-carrier is not very similar to the original, An-225, but the ship still looks very nice.

by the way, I also did this spacecraft.

http://i.imgur.com/NNFRNuV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZKbazWr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jXeHNCV.jpg

Thanks BB code list, I finally made spoiler!

wow! When did you make these?

[fenya]

wow! When did you make these?

I have done working spoiler right now. The ship in the picture was made about 5 months ago.

inigma, you must give a name for the spoiler

Edited February 10, 2015 by fenya

[Rune]

How to make a bb code list spoiler? I'm desperate.

[spoiler:testing]test

Just like you wrote, but with '=' instead of ':'. It's confusing because it shows the other way around.

The aircraft-carrier is not very similar to the original, An-225, but the ship still looks very nice.

Yeah, it's not the most faithful thing I have ever done... but if anything, I would say the Mirya is the one that looks closest to the original! Fat and huge, with a cockpit that looks like an afterthought on top of it and a wide double tail. Maybe I did the stabilizers a bit too tiny, but I liked the shape with those parts. OTOH, your MAKS is much more like the original concept, that's for sure. Mine looks like an afterthought, at least regarding aerodynamics! I just wanted to play with the fueling route and thrust vectors, really, it was more of an experiment that turned out too successful to not post here.

Rune. So, duly repp'ed So, I have repp'ed you not so long ago, it seems. I hope to see more of your stuff around here!

[DMSP]

Could you post this on KerbalX?

Mediafier sucks...

[Rune]

Could you post this on KerbalX?

Mediafier sucks...

Mediafire is useful for other stuff, and I've had exactly zero problems with it... rather, what OS and browser are you using? But sure, I'll see if I can find that kerbalx public account to upload it.

Rune. Sorry it doesn't work or you.

[DMSP]

Mediafire is useful for other stuff, and I've had exactly zero problems with it... rather, what OS and browser are you using? But sure, I'll see if I can find that kerbalx public account to upload it.

Rune. Sorry it doesn't work or you.

Thank you so much. What browser do you use? I'll go through all of my browsers. I also figured out the problem, it is because the cragt file turns into a "Standered Text Document". Can't wait!!! I also downloaded a mod to save the booster! Up to 300km distance! The big beatiful bastered won't end up at the bottom of the sea!

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If all else fails, I'll download it wherever it works and send it to myself.

[Rune]

Thank you so much. What browser do you use? I'll go through all of my browsers. I also figured out the problem, it is because the cragt file turns into a "Standered Text Document". Can't wait!!! I also downloaded a mod to save the booster! Up to 300km distance! The big beatiful bastered won't end up at the bottom of the sea!

- - - Updated - - -

If all else fails, I'll download it wherever it works and send it to myself.

Oh, then what you need to know is what a .craft file is!! This will save you no end of troubles: craft files are plain old notepad .txt files whose extension has been changed to .craft. You can edit them with notepad or something like it and everything, if you know what you are doing. Just change the file names to have the correct extensions, and they should work without issues. Hell, you could copy-paste the text into another file and it would work, if your browser is insisting on opening the file. Mac users apparently have problems with this kind of stuff, but I wouldn't know since I've never used one. That it? Ditto for savefiles, BTW, and a lot of other configuration files in ksp: plain old text files telling ksp how to put together something with the parts it has in RAM already.

Rune. I use the awesome Firefox with awesomer AdBlock plugin which, for example, means I only know of youtube's advertisement because I see it on other people's computers.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Rune

[Tangle]

I also downloaded a mod to save the booster! Up to 300km distance! The big beatiful bastered won't end up at the bottom of the sea!

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If the mod is what I think it is, just remember to add lots of parachutes.

[Levelord]

Holy cow, you've been on a roll! So many new crafts from you. How do you ever find so much inspiration???? @_@

[Rune]

If the mod is what I think it is, just remember to add lots of parachutes.

It could be Flight Manager for Reusable Stages, which creates savepoints that branch out and you can go back to in order to land the spent stages, and then they are fine as they are, plus you get the extra bonus of being able to see how they would fly back, not just getting the monies. In fact, that mods is quite awesome for stuff like this!

Holy cow, you've been on a roll! So many new crafts from you. How do you ever find so much inspiration???? @_@

You have no idea, I'm not even building that much these days... I have just found a rhythm of releases that allows me to start making a tiny dent on my backlog! And if you want proof, this are the properties of my 'ships' folder in my main career save. Because there are others.

Granted, most are old crap (about 125 files are inside folders labeled 'old' in there, so they could be pre-0.24 or something like that) and/or tests that got nowhere, but it doesn't take much to have something decent, if you have 322 things. Also, you can see I keep a healthy number of different savefiles, in case of kraken. I recommend that very much!

Rune. The inspiration is easy: you guys, mostly!

[Tangle]

'old'

Rune. The inspiration is easy: you guys, mostly!

You go into the "old" folder. There's another "old" folder inside. You follow it 5 layers down, and at the bottom you find a single .craft file. You load it and it is the best ship you've ever seen- Multi-part with really cool looking supports for docked vehicles, the works. It even has a small Tylo lander! You upload it, but you can't handle the guilt and delete it. Your computer starts making old folders all over the place. You find one in the control panel screen! You exit control panel, and then you realize you are an old folder. Oh well!