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Let us mod Kerbals and Buildings

CaptainKipard
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Anquietas314

Anquietas314

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I'd like to see more outfit variety

I'm pretty sure there are mods which change the appearance of Kerbals already - I distinctly remember seeing one with a nice bright blue suit.

Remember Valve? They made everything modable. And look at them now. It's a good thing.

Actually, everything IS modable. It's simply a question of how easy it is to do; can it be done with a simple config file or similar, does it need a plugin to make it happen, or does it need a total replacement of some stock code/models? Also keep in mind the building upgrades were only just added. It takes more effort to make a feature highly flexible than to just add it bare-bones.

Edited by armagheddonsgw
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Anquietas314

Anquietas314

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You distinctly remember replaced textures, not outfits.

Well, given how you need a space suit in space, a new outfit is not going to be a long way off just a texture replacement. If you really wanted to, you could simply overwrite the models/animations/... for the stock suits, possibly with a code change if for some reason KSP really cares about the shape of a kerbal. I'm also reasonably sure I've seen kerbals in suits with their helmet off wandering around the terrain. KAS also implements a way for kerbals to "hold" things, so conceivably you could just stick a new model where the helmet should be on one of those.

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CaptainKipard

CaptainKipard

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Well, given how you need a space suit in space, a new outfit is not going to be a long way off just a texture replacement. If you really wanted to, you could simply overwrite the models/animations/... for the stock suits, possibly with a code change if for some reason KSP really cares about the shape of a kerbal. I'm also reasonably sure I've seen kerbals in suits with their helmet off wandering around the terrain. KAS also implements a way for kerbals to "hold" things, so conceivably you could just stick a new model where the helmet should be on one of those.

I can't make heads or tails of this. Do you want this ability or not? What are you even doing in this thread? If you want it, then say yes and be on your way. I'm also reasonably sure you've seen KAS hacks. Hacks. "Helmets" must be bigger than stock. What's with all this naysaying and excuses dude. Do you even mod? If not then what's your negative opinion worth? Get a grip, alright?

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Anquietas314

Anquietas314

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I can't make heads or tails of this. Do you want this ability or not? What are you even doing in this thread? If you want it, then say yes and be on your way. I'm also reasonably sure you've seen KAS hacks. Hacks. "Helmets" must be bigger than stock. What's with all this naysaying and excuses dude. Do you even mod? If not then what's your negative opinion worth? Get a grip, alright?

I'm simply stating the ability already exists, provided you're willing to make the effort to do it. There's really no need to be rude about it. As for whether or not I mod, not for KSP no, however I am a fairly experienced programmer and am fully aware of what it takes to mod a game. In KSP it's incredibly easy due in no small part to almost everything having human-readable config files, which incidentally is not great for loading times. For most games, modding requires opening up DLL/SO/executable files in a suitable tool and examining the exported functions, and a hell of a lot of trial and error before releasing the mod as a binary-patched version of the DLL/SO/executable adding/removing/changing whatever. However, that does not make it impossible. Just look at minecraft - that even used obfuscation back in the day! (it may still do, I haven't kept up to date, also questionable example since it's java).

As for making kerbals and buildings easy to mod, sure great idea. IF it doesn't eat up so much of squads time that they have to pull some feature from a release lots of people want.

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CaptainKipard

CaptainKipard

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But seriously, Valve isn't in the best stance right now.

What on earth are you talking about? They are one of the riches game companies in the world! Partly because they catered to modders completely. Everything could be changed, and everything has excellent documentation. Some Source and GoldSource mods even became commercial products. Counterstrike? Natural Selection? Gary's Mod? Stanley Parable?

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Anquietas314

Anquietas314

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What on earth are you talking about? They are one of the riches game companies in the world! Partly because they catered to modders completely. Everything could be changed, and everything has excellent documentation. Some Source and GoldSource mods even became commercial products. Counterstrike? Natural Selection? Gary's Mod? Stanley Parable?

I think a fairly solid argument could be made that valve's prosperity is a result of the popularity of the half life and portal series (not to mention Left4Dead etc) and the fact they own steam.... it has little to do with the modability of their games. Of those games you just listed, only counterstrike was made by valve, though they obviously get a cut from the steam sales of the others, as well as probably some revenue from the use of the source engine (this part is really no different from the Unreal and Unity engines - neither are games themselves).

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CaptainKipard

CaptainKipard

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Ok, so make that argument, don't just assert it like you have there. The Half-life universe is pretty cool, but it's modability that keeps and old game engine on life support. This drives interest towards valve slowly and steadily throughout the life of an engine, and they do what corporations do with that interest. L4D2 is still using the source engine.

I was modding the original Half Life since 1999; I was fairly deeply immersed in that community and I watched Valve grow right in front of me, please....

All CS variants are making money for Valve either directly or indirectly

Stanley Parable was made by a third party who bought a license for Source.

Gary's Mod developer gives a larger cut of sales to Valve instead of owning a license afaik.

Natural Selection is the odd one out because NS2 is not using Source.

There are probably more examples but I can only think of these.

BTW Counterstrike was not made by Valve. Valve bought it and developed it further. It was a mod first. All those games I named were Half-life mods first. Mods.

Edited by Cpt. Kipard
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Anquietas314

Anquietas314

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While all of that may be true, the vast, vast majority of games on steam have no affiliation to valve whatsoever, other than the fact they're on steam. There are THOUSANDS of games on steam! While valve don't publicly release the cut they take from those sales, most estimates are between 10 and 30 percent. That is a lot of money, far more than all of valves games combined have made.

I also addressed several of your points in my previous post. It's also worth pointing out that back in the late 90s/early 2000s, modding was quite a small part of gaming, at least compared to what we now see with KSP and other more recent games. Most of valves sales for the half life games were generated because they were good games, not because they had so many mods. You being in the modding community doesn't add any more weight to your argument either. You probably saw that valve were doing well, and that the mods you and your friends worked on also were quite popular. That doesn't mean there's any correlation.

As for "making the argument" rather than "asserting it", it is not my job to look up the figures for valve's income. Google is right there, use it.

Edited by armagheddonsgw
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CaptainKipard

CaptainKipard

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While all of that may be true, the vast, vast majority of games on steam have no affiliation to valve whatsoever, other than the fact they're on steam. There are THOUSANDS of games on steam! While valve don't publicly release the cut they take from those sales, most estimates are between 10 and 30 percent. That is a lot of money, far more than all of valves games combined have made.

What are you talking about?? I've been trying all this time to make it clear to you that unrestricted modding is the lifeblood of games, and you keep dangling these red herrings in front of me. Will you stop? Steam has nothing to do with this!

I also addressed several of your points in my previous post. It's also worth pointing out that back in the late 90s/early 2000s, modding was quite a small part of gaming, at least compared to what we now see with KSP and other more recent games.

Not in the Half-Life community.

Most of valves sales for the half life games were generated because they were good games, not because they had so many mods.

It's not as black and white as you'd like it to be.

You being in the modding community doesn't add any more weight to your argument either.

Yes it does. I'm giving you a first hand account of my experiences, and a second hand account of others experiences. You have no reason to keep contradicting me. Stop it.

You probably saw that valve were doing well, and that the mods you and your friends worked on also were quite popular. That doesn't mean there's any correlation.

You're basing your "argument" on a guess?

It looks like you're not even using the right word there. There's a difference between "correlation" and "causation". The correlation is plain as day, but it's the causation that I'm talking about.

Anyway there is a causation between modability and success. This is on its face reasonable, but I also gave examples. There's also word of mouth which is difficult to measure. Just have a look at which games have replayability and which become hits. It's not the game that has you doing the same thing every playthrough that's for sure. And how do you avoid that in single-player? Mods. With all the short-lived games one would think this is obvious, but apparently not.

As for "making the argument" rather than "asserting it", it is not my job to look up the figures for valve's income. Google is right there, use it.

I said "make the argument". An argument is a logical construct linking premises to a conclusion. You gave neither of those. So, really, you have nothing substantial to say. Stop trying to derail this thread. I'm not going ask a second time.

And PS

KSP would be much less popular were it not for all the mods. Speaking for myself I can't imagine playing it for as long as I have with only stock parts and mechanics. I added my first mod only a couple of weeks after buying it, because it was intolerable without KER. And because it's already quite modable I can add my own stuff.

Who knows at this point; maybe someone will create a proper realism overhaul one day, with human avatars, real Earth with the facilities of various space agencies. I'd like to try that.

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xEvilReeperx

xEvilReeperx

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You can already have multiple launchpads.

This thread is about making the existing buildings modable.

They already can be, to some degree. There are some hardcoded limits that aren't fun to work around like what level complex you need for EVA, but otherwise it can be done. I'm working on something related now

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