Leveling Up Kerbals -- The Training Program

[Spektyr]

Does a flag-planting count only for the one doing it or everyone on the mission?

I'm guessing only the Kerbal (meaning a 5 man mission requires all five planting a flag individually), but I figured it would be worthwhile to ask.

[Bloody_looser]

How much KXP do you get for landing on the mun?

5 xp.

Does a flag-planting count only for the one doing it or everyone on the mission?

I'm guessing only the Kerbal (meaning a 5 man mission requires all five planting a flag individually), but I figured it would be worthwhile to ask.

Yep, it only counts for the guy, who planted the flag.

[Frostiken]

5 xp.

Yep, it only counts for the guy, who planted the flag.

That's kinda dumb. They should change that to just an EVA.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Frostiken

[liweih]

I let my kerbal to point the ship to retrograde. The poor little guy just flip the whole ship with full power pitch. It take very long time for the ship to be stable again. Another problem with autopilotting is if you let the kerbal hold the ship to burn marker, when burn is almost completed, the marker is very likely to flip away and your poor kerbal will follow your order honestly and flip your ship too.

[Superfluous J]

Is there a "here's how kxp works" thread/page somewhere? From the first post and other posts in the thread, I get that you get xp from doing specific things on worlds, and once you hit the cap you need not do any more. My question is: What is the complete list of things you can do? What are the amounts you can get per world per thing, and what's the cap per world?

Seems the list is:

• Fly - least points. You get this on Kerbin for just getting to the launchpad, and on other worlds for just getting in the SOI.
  
• Orbit - middle amount of points.
  
• Plant a flag - most points, can't do on Kerbin(?)
  
• Any others?
  

Also, apparently if you want the most points you MUST plant a flag. Period. Except Kerbin, Sun, and Jool where you can't plant a flag.

Is this all correct?

[Wanderfound]

I've been getting good training value from a six-seater spaceplane. Send it up with five on board, rescue a Kerbal, return to KSC. Six insta-trained Kerbals plus a little bonus cash.

[Bloody_looser]

Here you go, KXP table. Amount of xp seems to be based on distance from Kerbin and IMHO is quite arbitrary.

[table=width: 500, class: grid]

[tr]

[td][/td]

[td] Fly by[/td]

[td]Orbit[/td]

[td]Flight[/td]

[td]Land[/td]

[td]Flag[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Kerbol[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Moho[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]11[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]16[/td]

[td]18[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Eve[/td]

[td]5[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]10[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]13[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Gilly[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[td]9[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]14[/td]

[td]15[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Kerbin[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Mun[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]3[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]5[/td]

[td]5[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Minmus[/td]

[td]3[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Duna[/td]

[td]5[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]10[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]13[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Ike[/td]

[td]5[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]13[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Dres[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[td]9[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]14[/td]

[td]15[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Jool[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[td]9[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Laythe[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]16[/td]

[td]18[/td]

[td]20[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Vall[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]18[/td]

[td]20[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Tylo[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]18[/td]

[td]20[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Bop[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]18[/td]

[td]20[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Pol[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]18[/td]

[td]20[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Eeloo[/td]

[td]10[/td]

[td]15[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]23[/td]

[td]25[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

Edited December 26, 2014 by Bloody_looser
Fixed impossible situations

[Superfluous J]

Wow, I'll say. Gilly's worth more than Eve!?

What's the definition of "Flight" here? How would I "flight" the Sun, for example?

Also, from what I see here you don't actually need to plant a flag on Mun and Minmus to get the full XP available? Just landing is enough?

Edited December 26, 2014 by 5thHorseman

[Bloody_looser]

Wow, I'll say. Gilly's worth more than Eve!?

Yep, that's it. Xp values need some tweaking, that's for sure.

What's the definition of "Flight" here? How would I "flight" the Sun, for example?

I thought that for non-atmospheric bodies sub-orbital will count as "flight". Though, after some hyperedi further experiments, it looks like flight xp is only available on atmospheric bodies. Fly-by situation for Kerbin is also impossible. So, I've fixed the table.

Also, from what I see here you don't actually need to plant a flag on Mun and Minmus to get the full XP available? Just landing is enough?

In Astronaut complex Minmus landing\flag planting values appear as integer six. In logs fractional part appears - readings are 5.75 and 6.25 respectively. Also, it is seen through skill progress bar. So, flag planting is somewhat helpful, but for Kerbin moons the difference is tiny.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Bloody_looser

[SkyRender]

Eve definitely needs a boost for landing and flag-planting. Any Kerbal who survives that process and gets back to Kerbin deserves all the experience points.

[KerikBalm]

And flying in Jool's atmosphere needs a huge boost too.

A duna landing, or an ike landing, being worth as much as an Eve landing is a bit absurd

[worir4]

To get KXP for planting a flag, do you have to make each Kerbal on your mission plant their own flag or can just one of them plant a flag?

[SpaceSphereOfDeath]

To get KXP for planting a flag, do you have to make each Kerbal on your mission plant their own flag or can just one of them plant a flag?

Each kerbal needs to plant a flag to gain the KXP.

[TinfoilChef]

Having just read through this entire thread I have to say that this entire subject has left me cold.

Kerbal experience had done exactly what I was concerned might happen.

KSP now requires a bunch of otherwise useless grinding to get kerbals that are able to do anything I might want them to do.

Seriously not a fan of this.

Time to look into mods that change the experience system into something that doesn't require grinding and making extra flights that I would otherwise not do.

[Frostiken]

Having just read through this entire thread I have to say that this entire subject has left me cold.

Kerbal experience had done exactly what I was concerned might happen.

KSP now requires a bunch of otherwise useless grinding to get kerbals that are able to do anything I might want them to do.

Seriously not a fan of this.

Time to look into mods that change the experience system into something that doesn't require grinding and making extra flights that I would otherwise not do.

Maybe you didn't notice but KSP's career mode is pretty much defined by grind and has been for a long time. Personally I don't think career mode will ever be very satisfying without a complete teardown and revamp. An XCOM-style approach to managing the space program would've been far more interesting and more realistic.

[KerikBalm]

Well, careers are pretty much defined by grind.

Pilots are pretty useful "out of the box" as they are just there for SAS functionality. I do like the hold prograde/retrograde functionality for ascents and landings which only takes one orbital flight for them - but once you've unlocked better probe cores (which I used to stick on most of my ships anyway), they are pretty redundant.

I haven't used the last tier of probe cores, if they can hold to a maneuver node, then even high level piltos are pretty useless once you have the probes.

At any rate, its an added functionality that we didn't have before (though with no high level probe and no pilot, we've lost the SAS functionality)

You don't need a high level scientist (indeed, their exact effect isn't really even clear).

At any rate, its an added functionality that we didn't have before (though it seems the lab transmission nerf is to compensate for the effect of a high level scientist)

The only ones I really need to level up, are the engineers. Chute repacks are needed for my duna biome harvesting. They are very useful for my laythe biome harvesting (sure, I could land the space plane, but its easier to pop its chutes).

Also on duna, I often have "hard" landings that collapse al anding strut, but the vessel is otherwise fine. Strut repair and chute repair are needed.

These are functions we previously had, and are now removed until there's been enough grind.

However, its not that hard to get to lvl 3. All except scientists get no benefit going beyond level 3 (Hoping for a lvl 5 engineer being able to fix solar panels or reattach parts)

[SmashBrown]

Well, careers are pretty much defined by grind.

Pilots are pretty useful "out of the box" as they are just there for SAS functionality. I do like the hold prograde/retrograde functionality for ascents and landings which only takes one orbital flight for them - but once you've unlocked better probe cores (which I used to stick on most of my ships anyway), they are pretty redundant.

I haven't used the last tier of probe cores, if they can hold to a maneuver node, then even high level piltos are pretty useless once you have the probes.

At any rate, its an added functionality that we didn't have before (though with no high level probe and no pilot, we've lost the SAS functionality)

You don't need a high level scientist (indeed, their exact effect isn't really even clear).

At any rate, its an added functionality that we didn't have before (though it seems the lab transmission nerf is to compensate for the effect of a high level scientist)

The only ones I really need to level up, are the engineers. Chute repacks are needed for my duna biome harvesting. They are very useful for my laythe biome harvesting (sure, I could land the space plane, but its easier to pop its chutes).

Also on duna, I often have "hard" landings that collapse al anding strut, but the vessel is otherwise fine. Strut repair and chute repair are needed.

These are functions we previously had, and are now removed until there's been enough grind.

However, its not that hard to get to lvl 3. All except scientists get no benefit going beyond level 3 (Hoping for a lvl 5 engineer being able to fix solar panels or reattach parts)

kerbal attachment system will be awesome if it's put in to the game with the engineers.

[helaeon]

I think you should get XP for each mission and I'm not really entirely sold on a cap for a certain body, however some stuff should be worth more than others and the experience received should be based on class. For example:

Pilots can get XP for flying survey missions. They get more off-world, but you can get 1 xp per flight on Kerbin and level one up all the way... but they need to be doing a survey contract to get it (or maybe amount of xp earned for the lead pilot can be stated in the contract, any additional pilots or non pilots get half that.). Certain burns and maneuvers would also give some, as would landings. Basically flying stuff.

Engineers get XP for serving time on bases or space stations. Basically they get XP based on time in orbit. Maybe could do something involving resource extraction contracts.

Scientists get XP for collecting science and going on EVAs. Their XP is based on the science they have transmitted or returned.

The body they do this from is a lesser thing than that they did these things. That way you could train up a crew in the Kerbin System before sending them to Duna or Jool if you wanted to.

[Frostiken]

If pilots are going to be useful, they need to implement some mechjeb-style features, IMO, with regards to autoascent and maneuver burns. The whole taking off from Kerbin bit tends to get pretty dull, and I happily use Mechjeb to automate it because it's dumb as hell doing it every ....ing time.

[SickSix]

I agree with many here. So much more can be done with this system. I think tying xp to contracts or role relative actions would be a good start.

I think capping xp per planetary body is silly. But diminishing returns makes sense.

[Frostiken]

Well, careers are pretty much defined by grind.

Career mode, as it is, really just isn't any fun, and saying "it's supposed to be grindy" is a ........ copout excuse. Would it kill you people to admit that Squad simply isn't doing a good job of making career fun?

[Motokid600]

Yea.. there needs to be a better incentive to put Kerbals in space other then crew reports and surface samples. And God forbid you use DMagic. Because with that mod you have zero reasons to put a kerbal into space. Especially if your using TAC.

[Jouni]

Career mode, as it is, really just isn't any fun, and saying "it's supposed to be grindy" is a ........ copout excuse. Would it kill you people to admit that Squad simply isn't doing a good job of making career fun?

I think the main issue is that the replay value of the career mode is rather low. After you have completed it once, you've better stick to the sandbox for a while and wait until the career mode has evolved into something sufficiently different a few patches later.

KSP is ultimately a sandbox game, even in the career mode. For a sandbox game to remain interesting, you have to find new things to do all the time. There are only so many things you can do in the early phases of a space program, so in order to find something new to do, the game mechanics must change. Games like Civilization get around this by having you to compete against enemy civilizations, but this doesn't feel like something Squad wants KSP to become.

[Frostiken]

I think the main issue is that the replay value of the career mode is rather low. After you have completed it once, you've better stick to the sandbox for a while and wait until the career mode has evolved into something sufficiently different a few patches later.

KSP is ultimately a sandbox game, even in the career mode. For a sandbox game to remain interesting, you have to find new things to do all the time. There are only so many things you can do in the early phases of a space program, so in order to find something new to do, the game mechanics must change. Games like Civilization get around this by having you to compete against enemy civilizations, but this doesn't feel like something Squad wants KSP to become.

Well, that was the biggest complaint about Squad putting the kibosh on resources. Right now, once you land on another planet, you've basically exhausted the game's content. There is nothing on any planet that actually "does" anything, nor any mechanics that take advantage of anything specific on any planets at all. It's like leaving the MMO starting area and the rest of the world has zero NPCs and zero quests.

[Spektyr]

Honestly, the completely and totally unofficial ribbon thing people did for their signatures here was way more challenging and fun for me than any of the goal/achievement-based content Squad's put in.

Not to say I don't love the game - totally still do. But while the challenge of beating the Career mode content they keep adding to make it more challenging(grindy) is rewarding, as others have said it's seriously limited on replay-ability. You either have to turn up the difficulty, set extra challenges for yourself, or put in some mods or something to keep it interesting.

Try to achieve every significant orbit (equatorial, polar, geo-synch) around every body, land on all the land-able ones with a lander and a rover, manned and unmanned... basically tick all the little boxes in that ribbon system we used to use... now that's a challenge. Not super hard or anything, but it takes a long time and doesn't feel at all like a grind, to me. Prior to career mode my personal challenge was to send a single transfer vessel to a given planet that would serve as a refueling station for that planet, as well as have a manned lander, rover, un-manned lander and rover, satellite (with the mapping mod), and so on. The challenge of doing all of that in an All-In-One that wasn't brutish, massive, and ugly? Awesome.

Can't tell you how much I was looking forward to resources... official ones, anyway.