[0.90][Depricated] KSP Interstellar Near Future Integration 0.3 (update 1-2-2015)

[FreeThinker]

Alright, Up uploaded KSP Interstellar Near Future Integration 0.2 which you can now download from KerbalSuff

Changelog Version 0.2

• Added ability of Atmospheric Scoop to function as Propulsive fluid accumulator which can be achieved by placing a vessel in a circular orbit at the edge of space with access to KSPI plasma engines and enough power.
  
• Improved GUI Science Lab, you will now see you science gathering progress
  
• Added Configuration setting RadiationMechanicsDisabled which will disable all Radiation processing and Gui
  
• Added Nitrogen as a resource which is which is compatible with RealFuels Nitrogen which can be retrieved from athmosphere (or just above) with Atmospheric Scoop
  
• Added Liquid Nitrogen as a resource which is more convenient to store and can be used for cooling
  
• Added Nitrogen Radiator which is a Radiator with integrated pressurized Nitrogen storage tank which can perform Active Cooling with Liquid Nitrogen
  
• Added compressor to Liquid Nitrogen Cryostat which converts Nitrogen gas into Liquid Nitrogen
  
• Added pressurized Nitrogen radial Hexcan
  
• Thermal/magnetic noozle can use both Nitrogen as a propellant
  
• Electric plasma engine can use both Nitrogen as a propellant
  
• Haber Process can use stored Nitrogen when there is no Nitrogen available in the atmosphere
  
• Reduced power requirement of Atmospheric Scoop to 1/10 of original power consumption
  

- - - Updated - - -

Alright, so I'm confused and hopefully someone can help me out.

There's this, which as I've read seems to be fully integrated with Boris' KSPI, right? So I can install that, then install this. This is a set of configurations that harmonizes Boris' KSPI with NFT. However, you also made an install ( https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/508/KSPI%200.90%20Extended%20Configuration ) that harmonizes Boris' KSPI with RealFuels? Do I install both of these?

And that's even more confusing, because I thought Boris was trying to integrate KSPI with the Community Resource Project so that it would interoperate with things like TACLS, but RF isn't integrated into CRP. If that's the case, how would this, or a combination of all these configs play with MKS or Karbonite?

Sorry, for the confusion , let me make a few things clear:

1. KSPI NF Integration and my patch for Boris Interstellar 0.90 have the same code base, meaning they are fully (code) integrated, they only differ in their configuration and deployment
   
2. I have no intention of fully integrating with Real Fuels, I just wanted to a Nitrogen as a resource that can be used as a propellant or chemical, which is very useful as most of Kerbin (and Earth) atmosphere consists of Nitrogen. I simply re-used a resource that is already defined in RealFuels.This should prevent any conflicts between KSPI and RealFuels
   
3. Installing Boris Interstellar 0.90 is no longer needed, I simplified the download for KSPI NF Integertation 0.2 now contains everything needed to play the mod as intended.
   

Edited January 26, 2015 by FreeThinker

[JordanL]

Okay, so then installing both could cause unexpected conflicts, and your NF integration is actually a full, parallel distribution of KSPI it sounds like.

So then, people should decide if they want:

- Boris' KSPI + some of your configs

or

- FreeThinker's KSPI (which includes rebalancing and configs to work with NF and all other configs that you repackaged for Boris' distribution)

Correct?

EDIT:

Actually, do you think your NF Integration would behave at all with RF installed since RF comes with a KSPI MM config?

Edited January 25, 2015 by JordanL

[FreeThinker]

Okay, so then installing both could cause unexpected conflicts, and your NF integration is actually a full, parallel distribution of KSPI it sounds like.

So then, people should decide if they want:

- Boris' KSPI + some of your configs

or

- FreeThinker's KSPI (which includes rebalancing and configs to work with NF and all other configs that you repackaged for Boris' distribution)

Correct?

Correct, but my "configuration" patch/mod also includes a new dll which adds new features and improvements

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, do you think your NF Integration would behave at all with RF installed since RF comes with a KSPI MM config?

I intend to be compatible as many resource mods as possible, especialy the realistc ones that has a base in reality(Like RealFuels and NearFuels). In fact for my next release involves support for fore propulsions type. I intend to make behave KSPI like a comeleon, addapting to whatever resources are available. To some degree it already has this behaivoir, I intend to extend it.

Edited January 26, 2015 by FreeThinker

[qwertyza]

Is it save-game compatible? I mean if I've already played for a while with boris KSPI, built several stations; if I just switch to this mod, will it crash my save?

[FreeThinker]

Is it save-game compatible? I mean if I've already played for a while with boris KSPI, built several stations; if I just switch to this mod, will it crash my save?

Well it technically it should not result in crashes but it would result in highly unbalances effect like thermal engines suddenly become Overpowered because KSP Integration expects nuclear/fusion/antimater generators to produce much less power (by a factor of 100). It would result in the effect that a low level reactor would perform better than an anti matter reactor. Which could if uncarefull (with DRE) kill your kerbals due to excessive G power. If you can live with that, then "yes", otherwise the answer would be "no".

[Akira_R]

Has any one made a config to integrate this with the CTT?

[FreeThinker]

Has any one made a config to integrate this with the CTT?

even though, I already have my own techtree, I will see if I can somehow adapt

Edited January 28, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Akira_R]

even though, I already have my own techtrre, I will see if I can somehow adapt

Thank you very much that is super generous of you, I already adapted sort of lol.

Here it is if you want to take a look at it, you are welcome to include it as is if you would like, or make whatever adjustments you think are necessary.

Oh and if I find anything out with my experimenting with the radiator stuff I will definitely let you know, I feel like it has to be something like specific transform/animation names are hard coded into the FNRadiator MODULE and that is why nothing but the original models actually work, however I know very little abut modeling, I just recently started and am currently learning about how animations and such work, also I know next to nothing about C#, I did a little C++ back in high school like 8 years ago or so lol, and I haven't had any luck trying to sift through the source code, so basically no promises.

Cheers

Edit: Oh I almost forgot some tweaks need to be made to your MM files for the NF reactors and such, just the upgrade tech required needs to be changed.

I'm not sure what the best way to do that is, probably to just have alternate configs and have an options folder outside of Gamedata in your download and to have people replace them if they want to use the CTT.

Also there is a MM patch in the NF Electrical download in order to patch those parts into the CTT, that config needs to be removed in order for mine to work.

I updated the link above to go to a folder that has all the configs I changed in order to integrate everything with CTT, I didn't include the config and stuff for the NF radiators as I have just removed them from my game until they can be made to work with the KSPI functionality, however the only thing that needs to be changed in them is the upgrade tech required field.

It isn't 100% tested yet as I am still building my .90 game and haven't even started playing yet, sooo many mods lol, but everything loads up in the right nodes.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Akira_R
More info and changed link

[starchitect]

Has any one made a config to integrate this with the CTT?

I've been working on a config to get this to play nice with the CTT. As the NearFuture suite supports CTT out of the box, I've only changed the position of the KSPI parts on the tree to roughly suit the changes FreeThinker has made. Note that this config may not be to everyone's taste, as I have included part Entry Costs for the KSPI parts that run on the more expensive side of things, as I intend to play through with this config with mods that will allow generation of funds through off world mining.

Based on the Unofficial KSPI by Serino config.

Download (GPL Licence)

FreeThinker, feel free to use this as a base if you want to include.

[Therlun]

I started a new campaign with this and various other mods. So far I like it. Thanks for your work on this.

I have one issue with interstellar reactors and their fuel. If I put small (62cm or 1.25m) reactors on my ship they always start empty, even when making sure they have a full supply of ThF4 in the VAB. Additional fuel tanks of ThF4 don't seem to work with them at all.

When I use the next biggest size of reactor (2.5m) it starts full and works normally. If I use a 2.5m reactor and several 1.25 (or 62 cm) ones all the ThF4 immediately drains into the 2.5m reactor, even above the maximum.

A random similar issue for fuel tanks, one 2.5m reactor and two 800 unit ThF4 tanks immediately turn into a 1600 unit ThF4 generator and two empty tanks (with 800 units vanishing.)

/edit experimenting more it seems the ThF4 fuel always goes "down", either into the lowest reactor or vanishing into the ground(?).

So if I place two reactors in a ship the upper one always drains its fuel into the lower one, until that one is at 200% capacity.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Therlun

[FreeThinker]

Great, finally some feedback!

I will try to reproduce your problem, in the mean time try to download Boris Tweakscale patch, perhaps it's a tweakscale problem.

Edit: I wasn't able to reproduce the fuel problem. Are you sure you made a clean install? is anyone else experiencing this problem?

Edited January 28, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Therlun]

Yeah, the fuel flow mechanics for Interstellar fuel don't work for me. Two or more reactors of any kind will empty their fuel into one reactor.

I didn't use tweakscale before.

Installing tweakscale and applying the patch doesn't change the behaviour either (I thought maybe another mod like procedural fairings caused trouble by using a tweakscale- like option).

If you can't reproduce it with a vanilla Integration mod I'll disable mods one by one and try to find the culprit.

[Akira_R]

I can confirm I too am having some kind of strange bug with ThF4 reactors, here are some screens

Javascript is disabled. View full album

In the first image you can see that the 1.25m reactor is at 200% capacity and the proper amount of fuel is missing from the 2.5m reactor.

In the second image you can see that all of the fuel in the 2.5m reactor is now in the 3.75m reactor.

In both cases the images were taking immediately after spawning on the pad

In both cases the total ThF4 on the vessel is correct, just it's location is wrong.

In both cases the 2.5m reactor was placed first in the editor.

After the second image was taken I did use TAC fuel balancer to refill the empty 2.5m reactor, which was successful and it stayed full.

EDIT: Third image added to album, order of placement of the reactors matters, I recovered the craft from the second image, I then added another 2.5m reactor to the top and then launched, after launch the new 2.5m reactor was at 200% the 3.75m was at 100% and the first 2.5m was at 0%

I then recovered that craft, stuck a 1.25m reactor to the top and launched, this is when I took the third image. as you can see the 2.5m reactor that was placed first has 0 ThF4 in it, the 3.75m reactor is missing 100 ThF4, the new 2.5m and 1.25m reactors are now at 200%

As far as bugs go I feel this is a fairly minor one, it only appears to occur on ships that are launched with more than one reactor on them, and the symptom can be easily remedied with a mod like TAC fuel balancer.

EDIT 2: I forgot to mention I am still using the 0.1 version of the integration, if Therlun is as well then that would explain it, oh and there is nothing of interest in the debug log

Edited January 29, 2015 by Akira_R
Update with another screen and more info

[Therlun]

Edit: I wasn't able to reproduce the fuel problem. Are you sure you made a clean install? is anyone else experiencing this problem?

Yes, even with just this mod installed on a vanilla KSP the issue appears.

Similar to Akira's screenie (I use 0.2):

Edited January 29, 2015 by Therlun

[FreeThinker]

I can confirm I too am having some kind of strange bug with ThF4 reactors, here are some screens

http://imgur.com/a/FcNDg

In the first image you can see that the 1.25m reactor is at 200% capacity and the proper amount of fuel is missing from the 2.5m reactor.

In the second image you can see that all of the fuel in the 2.5m reactor is now in the 3.75m reactor.

In both cases the images were taking immediately after spawning on the pad

In both cases the total ThF4 on the vessel is correct, just it's location is wrong.

In both cases the 2.5m reactor was placed first in the editor.

After the second image was taken I did use TAC fuel balancer to refill the empty 2.5m reactor, which was successful and it stayed full.

EDIT: Third image added to album, order of placement of the reactors matters, I recovered the craft from the second image, I then added another 2.5m reactor to the top and then launched, after launch the new 2.5m reactor was at 200% the 3.75m was at 100% and the first 2.5m was at 0%

I then recovered that craft, stuck a 1.25m reactor to the top and launched, this is when I took the third image. as you can see the 2.5m reactor that was placed first has 0 ThF4 in it, the 3.75m reactor is missing 100 ThF4, the new 2.5m and 1.25m reactors are now at 200%

As far as bugs go I feel this is a fairly minor one, it only appears to occur on ships that are launched with more than one reactor on them, and the symptom can be easily remedied with a mod like TAC fuel balancer.

EDIT 2: I forgot to mention I am still using the 0.1 version of the integration, if Therlun is as well then that would explain it, oh and there is nothing of interest in the debug log

Thank you, that was most helpful in identifying the problem. I found the problem and fixed it!

- - - Updated - - -

I uploaded the new version 0.2.1 to KerbalStuff

Changelog 0.2.1:

• Fixes issue where ThF4 in top Nuclear reactor would automatically transfers to second Nuclear reactor at startup
  
• removed Regolith config files from install
  

Edited January 29, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Therlun]

The new plasma engines seem extremely strong. Single stage spacecraft of tremendous weight are possible with even the standard Interstellar fission reactors.

Once you reach fusion you can orbit entire skyscrapers without much effort.

One bug I have is with differently sized plasma engines active at the same time really messes up power draw/thrust.

Here is a basic ship. Just generators, fuel and two different kinds of plasma engines.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

1. Firing just the 2.5m engine gives the right amount of thrust.

2. But activating one of the 62cm engines suddenly kills the power draw and thus thrust of the main engine for some reason.

3. Activating all three engines further averages out the power draw.

Power draw works normally if all engines are the same size.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Therlun

[FreeThinker]

The new plasma engines seem extremely strong. Single stage spacecraft of tremendous weight are possible with even the standard Interstellar fission reactors.

Once you reach fusion you can orbit entire skyscrapers without much effort.

One bug I have is with differently sized plasma engines active at the same time really messes up power draw/thrust.

Here is a basic ship. Just generators, fuel and two different kinds of plasma engines.

http://imgur.com/a/8YdiS

1. Firing just the 2.5m engine gives the right amount of thrust.

2. But activating one of the 62cm engines suddenly kills the power draw and thus thrust of the main engine for some reason.

3. Activating all three engines further averages out the power draw.

Power draw works normally if all engines are the same size.

First note, the Plasma Engine is mend to be accessible, later that stock KSPI, specifically in the same node Near future vasmir trusters become available (most highter trusters).

Beside that your conclusions are valid, the over powered effect is my fault, the buggy behavior when mixing different sizes engines is an KSPI stock bug. I will try to fix them both soon

Edited January 30, 2015 by FreeThinker

[newton3501]

ur mod see cool but only one thing problem is when i mouse on parts big bigger biggest on part i like stay nomarl parts box without biggest screen parts real idiot

- - - Updated - - -

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198090967490/home/

Edited January 31, 2015 by newton3501

[newton3501]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=384750694

[FreeThinker]

ur mod see cool but only one thing problem is when i mouse on parts big bigger biggest on part i like stay nomarl parts box without biggest screen parts real idiot

- - - Updated - - -

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198090967490/home/

I have never seen it my self but I heard you can fix the problem with ModuleFixer[h=2][/h]

[FreeThinker]

I have uploaded KSP Interstellar Near Future Integration to 0.3. you can again download from KerbalStuff.

Extract the zip into your GameData folder and allow it to overwrite everything

In the new version, I adres several of the problems and imbalances of Electric engines. They should be much better balanced

Changelog:

• Electric engine maximum trust is reduced by low ISP multiplier (-40%)
  
• Electric engine trust is negatively affected by atmospheric pressure (-40% @ Kerbin surface)
  
• Electric engines power usage is limited by available (generated) power
  
• Distribution of power over multiple electric engines with different sizes is fixed
  
• Added Carbon Dioxide as a Thermal/Electrical Engine propellant
  
• rebalanced Efficiency Nitrogen/Liquid Nitrogen
  
• rebalanced build cost for Liquid Nitrogen Cryostat tanks to realistic values
  
• rebalanced power requirements Liquid Nitrogen Cryostat tanks to realistic values
  
• updated Regolith to 0.1.5
  
• updated Techmanager to 1.5
  

Edited February 1, 2015 by FreeThinker

[UnanimousCoward]

I have never seen it my self but I heard you can fix the problem with ModuleFixer

The download link in the OP there is broken, but this post has a working one.

[FreeThinker]

The download link in the OP there is broken, but this post has a working one.

I heard someone else mention these problems are cause by outdated mods and that the module fixes introduces other problems. THe best advice they give is to create a fresh new install of KSP.

[UnanimousCoward]

Hi

Is the RealFuels folder a requirement? When I install it, it seems to totally mess up thrust of my rockets: it increases TWR and hugely shortens burn times.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

This is from a test install, with just Kerbal Engineer, the Near Future Mods and version 0.3 of your mod. Running KSP 0.90 Win 32-bit (in OpenGL, but I don't see why that would matter).

Logs can be found here, if they're any use:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/um73wglf9eaqins/AAAE683KMzjAA9RVatB3vczka?dl=0

I read that you said this RealFuels config was included to add Kerosene, but I noticed that the config file also defines all the other RealFuels resources, too. I also noticed this in the logs:

Config(@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[LiquidFuel]:FOR[RealFuels]) RealFuels/Resources/ResourcesFuel/@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[LiquidFuel]:FOR[RealFuels]

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)


Config(@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Oxidizer]:FOR[RealFuels]) RealFuels/Resources/ResourcesFuel/@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Oxidizer]:FOR[RealFuels]

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)


Config(@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[MonoPropellant]:FOR[RealFuels]) RealFuels/Resources/ResourcesFuel/@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[MonoPropellant]:FOR[RealFuels]

I'm no expert, but that looks to me like something's getting changed in the stock fuels. Any idea what's going on?

[FreeThinker]

Mmm, the only thing I can think of now is that you use another mod with conflicting resource definition. For the moment, just remove the realfuels folder, it should not be a problem. Realfuels is not a requirement. The only thing you lose is the ability to use Nitrogen. You could also fix it yourself I you copy the Nitrogen definition to a separate file before you remove it.