[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[Yemo]

I'm getting 100 exception throws per second of ModuleParachute when using SETI. Removed SETI and it was gone. Perhaps a ModuleManager configuration bug?

I'm using this plugin by the way:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/109463-ExceptionDetector-1-1-KSP-0-90

Thank you for the plugin suggestion, it seems very handy.

I will investigate the exceptions. For me it only seemst to throw them in the start menu, not when actually playing the game.

In its thread I read that this is not the only time something like this happens, so I will try to narrow it down and investigate.

I'll replace the buggy stock ReachSpace with a custom one in ContractConfigurator - that way you can leave your contracts as is.

Thank you very much. I m not certain that thats the problem, but in my experience 0.90 seems to have quite some quick and dirty implementations, which throw problems when used in a non stock way.

- - - Updated - - -

Just curious, with planet scaling, would that number need to be scaled as well? With support for mods like RSS that change the scale, space will be a different altitude, yes?

I don't claim any knowledge, but just voicing concern at a seemingly simple fix...

Yes, definately. I m not sure how RSS configures that, since other contracts use altitudes as well. Maybe they have an algorithm that searches for altitude and multiplies the values by a certain factor?

Edited February 8, 2015 by Yemo

[nightingale]

Just curious, with planet scaling, would that number need to be scaled as well? With support for mods like RSS that change the scale, space will be a different altitude, yes?

I don't claim any knowledge, but just voicing concern at a seemingly simple fix...

Yes, definately. I m not sure how RSS configures that, since other contracts use altitudes as well. Maybe they have an algorithm that searches for altitude and multiplies the values by a certain factor?

I've been meaning to look at something for RSS in Contract Configurator, but I just haven't come up with the right answer. You can hypothetically do it with module manager config, but it's messy - module manager has no way of doing a "depth" search for nodes which is needed because parameters can be nested (I raised an enhancement request, but it was rejected).

I've been thinking about adding a global "altitude" multiplier in a config somewhere, then that *one* value can get multiple once via a MM-config, and it'll apply everywhere. Of course, that may be too simplistic - maybe one per celestial body is also necessary?

[Yemo]

The 100 exceptions per second in the start screen seem to be caused by a part validation parameter of 2 of the contracts.

Once in an actual game/save, there are not more exceptions thrown according to the ExceptionDetector plugin. Also if you leave game and return to the start screen, no exceptions are thrown.

That is the code I used in 0.7.2:

            PARAMETER
            {
                name = PartValidation
                type = PartValidation

                partModule = ModuleParachute
                partModule = RealChuteModule

                minCount = 0
                maxCount = 0
            }    

It throws start screen exceptions when fully modded (RealChute is installed), but none for minimal mods (if RealChute is not installed).

I splitted it up into a standard config and an mm statement in case RealChute is installed:

PARAMETER
{
name = PartValidation
type = PartValidation

//Stock parachute module
partModule = ModuleParachute

minCount = 0
maxCount = 0
}

Checks for real chute install and replaces ModuleParachute with RealChuteModule:

PARAMETER
@CONTRACT_TYPE[KerbinLanding]:FOR[SETI]:NEEDS[RealChute]
{
    @PARAMETER[AltKerbinSeqNode]
    {
        @PARAMETER[AltKerbin]
        {
            @PARAMETER[PartValidation]
            {
                @partModule = RealChuteModule
            }
        }
    }
}

That combination throws exceptions for minimal mods (if RealChute is not installed), but none when fully modded (RealChute is installed).

So just the other way around.

[nightingale]

The 100 exceptions per second in the start screen seem to be caused by a part validation parameter of 2 of the contracts.

Once in an actual game/save, there are not more exceptions thrown according to the ExceptionDetector plugin. Also if you leave game and return to the start screen, no exceptions are thrown.

That is the code I used in 0.7.2:

            PARAMETER
            {
                name = PartValidation
                type = PartValidation

                partModule = ModuleParachute
                partModule = RealChuteModule

                minCount = 0
                maxCount = 0
            }    

It throws start screen exceptions when fully modded (RealChute is installed), but none for minimal mods (if RealChute is not installed).

I splitted it up into a standard config and an mm statement in case RealChute is installed:

PARAMETER
{
name = PartValidation
type = PartValidation

//Stock parachute module
partModule = ModuleParachute

minCount = 0
maxCount = 0
}

Checks for real chute install and replaces ModuleParachute with RealChuteModule:

PARAMETER
@CONTRACT_TYPE[KerbinLanding]:FOR[SETI]:NEEDS[RealChute]
{
    @PARAMETER[AltKerbinSeqNode]
    {
        @PARAMETER[AltKerbin]
        {
            @PARAMETER[PartValidation]
            {
                @partModule = RealChuteModule
            }
        }
    }
}

That combination throws exceptions for minimal mods (if RealChute is not installed), but none when fully modded (RealChute is installed).

So just the other way around.

What are the exceptions you're seeing in each case? In the first case, it should throw an error (but I would've only expected to see it ONCE). In the second, it should work, although you are *replacing* the partModule instead of adding a new one. You probably want this instead:

[COLOR=#333333]@CONTRACT_TYPE[KerbinLanding]:FOR[SETI]:NEEDS[RealChute][/COLOR]{
    @PARAMETER[AltKerbinSeqNode]
    {
        @PARAMETER[AltKerbin]
        {
            @PARAMETER[PartValidation]
            {
                 partModule = RealChuteModule
            }
        }
    }
[COLOR=#333333]}[/COLOR]

[Yemo]

In both of the above cases it is throwing "[Exception]: NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object".

If I use partModule = RealChuteModule instead of my @partModule = ReachChuteModule, it starts throwing errors both with RealChute and without RealChute.

So I guess there seems to be something wrong with the "partModule = ModuleParachute" partValidation?

- - - Updated - - -

Since I have to release a patch anyway, for the StationScience issue, I can just set the reach space contract to 70km reach state and deactivate the partValidation for the ModuleParachute for the moment.

It is not that crucial for the progression.

[Yemo]

So, new version.

The StationScience issue was entirely on my part. I misinterpreted the Debug log. It should be fixed now.

The reach space contract parameter was replaced by a simple reach altitude parameter, which worked fine when I tested it, probably a bug from the Squad progression parameter.

Error throwing is now dealt with, I simply replaced the partValidation for ModuleParachute with ones searching for the 2 early stock parachute parts.

The RealChute module partValidation replaces the previous 2 validations by an mm config, if RealChute is present.

Also, the updated Ship Manifest is supported, it is a really great improvement of comfort and gameplay mechanics!

New Version 0.7.3

Extended Mod Support

• Ship Manifest
  

Bug Fixes

• Deletion of the module manager cache and the old SETI folder is recommended
  
• Reach space contract fixed
  
• Station Science laboratory fixed (right click bug)
  
• Exception error throwing in start screen fixed (workaround implemented)
  
• Some Sample Craft fixed (Advanced Jet and minMods Manned High Altitude Rocket)
  

Rebalances and Adjustments

• SRB @ basicRocketry now has higher volume limit for non-FAR 18km altitude contract
  

Edited February 6, 2015 by Yemo

[nightingale]

Thanks for bringing these two bugs to my attention - I've got fixes coming for the parachate PartModule issue as well as the replacement of stock ReachSpace.

[Assassin215k]

Hello everybody!

I'm propose add BoxSat mod to support in mod.

And I like SETI mod, really now much easier to use a lot of mods at once. Many thanks for this mod!

[Yemo]

Thanks for bringing these two bugs to my attention - I've got fixes coming for the parachate PartModule issue as well as the replacement of stock ReachSpace.

You are welcome!

Thank you for the great support.

Hello everybody!

I'm propose add BoxSat mod to support in mod.

And I like SETI mod, really now much easier to use a lot of mods at once. Many thanks for this mod!

Thank you. I ll take a look at BoxSat, however it will most likely happen after 0.8.0. Too much to do, too little time ;-).

New Version 0.7.4

Contracts

• New progression contracts, please take a look at the contracts section in the SETI-BalanceMod OP
  
• Orbit around Kerbin contract requirements changed to be more robust (no parameter changes)
  
• Manned Kerbin Orbital Rendezvous (Docking) expanded
  

Rebalances and Adjustments

• Stock Mobile Processing Lab renamed and vessel type changed to "station" to be eligible for station contracts
  
• Earlier Solar Panels, more in line with historical progression (eg Soyuz)
  
• Drastically lowered min dimension limits for many procedural parts
  
• SRB @ basicRocketry has higher volume limit for non-FAR 18km altitude contract (wrong limit in 0.7.3)
  

KAS support

• Removed KAS support for unshrouded panels (the lighter ones, which are now available earlier)
  
• Added KAS support for B9 Omni Lights
  
• Added KAS support for Reflectron DP-10 from RemoteTech
  
• Added KAS support for AR-202 from MechJeb
  

Minor Changes and Fixes

Edited February 9, 2015 by Yemo

[PeterPan]

I'm a little concerned about removing KAS support for the lighter solar panels. Often I add some of those in a container for emergency purposes like breaking during landing or something like that. Do I have to expect problems in existing craft?

[Yemo]

I'm a little concerned about removing KAS support for the lighter solar panels. Often I add some of those in a container for emergency purposes like breaking during landing or something like that. Do I have to expect problems in existing craft?

Unfortunately that seems to be the case. I m sorry for not mentioning that or including a workaround. It also seems to be unreverseable.

Sorry for messing this up!

If you send me your savegame and names of the vessels including the KAS containers and how many Panels of which type you lost, I can edit the shrouded ones back in...

- - - Updated - - -

Released a HOTFIX 0.7.4.1

and gave the Solar Panels KAS support again...

Hopefully not too many Panels in containers were removed...

Edited February 9, 2015 by Yemo

[SwGustav]

Great job so far, you add contract progression faster than I can keep up in-game...

Anyway, I've read just now that unused parts are loaded so I wrote a cfg for this to disable them completely (based on seti-unused folder cfgs). I didn't put currently partially supported USI, Procedural Fairings parts (not sure what they are? seem unloaded anyway), BahaSP parts (you stated these shouldn't be deleted), and also Mk1 fuselage because I don't know if it shares stuff for Mk1 intake.

Here's the link: Latest version in this post.

Just tested it, found no errors.

Drop into PRNLs folder of AutoPruner, put AutoPruner folder into KSP folder (not gamedata) and run as said in readme.

Edited February 9, 2015 by SwGustav

[PeterPan]

I'm very impressed about your quick reaction. May I ask the reason for removing KAS support for this parts? Thank you a lot anyway

[SSGFouts31]

Maybe this has been asked before, but are the Remotetech and SCANsat contract packs compatible with this mod. So far I am really enjoying this mod, but I really like the idea of contracts that pay to set up the satelite network that you need with Remotetech.

[SwGustav]

Maybe this has been asked before, but are the Remotetech and SCANsat contract packs compatible with this mod. So far I am really enjoying this mod, but I really like the idea of contracts that pay to set up the satelite network that you need with Remotetech.

Yes, they are

• Taking a look at other contract packs is recommended (eg. SCANsat, RemoteTech)
  

There's also a new one out, for searching easter eggs, do you approve it Yemo?

[Yemo]

Great job so far, you add contract progression faster than I can keep up in-game...

Anyway, I've read just now that unused parts are loaded so I wrote a cfg for this to disable them completely (based on seti-unused folder cfgs). I didn't put currently partially supported USI, Procedural Fairings parts (not sure what they are? seem unloaded anyway), BahaSP parts (you stated these shouldn't be deleted), and also Mk1 fuselage because I don't know if it shares stuff for Mk1 intake.

Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/439bn6a3hk8m6cb/SETI.prnl You are free to edit it, etc.

Just tested it, found no errors.

Drop into PRNLs folder of AutoPruner, put AutoPruner folder into KSP folder (not gamedata) and run as said in readme.

That is a fantastic suggestion! I did not know about AutoPruner, will take a closer look!

May I redistribute your file with the SETI-BalanceMod? Of course full credit given.

Thank you very much.

Contract editing is rather new to me, so I needed some learning and testing time. But with the great wiki and support from nightingale and the bug reports here it goes much faster now. Until I reach the more complex contracts, eg for habitats and bases in phase 8 .

I'm very impressed about your quick reaction. May I ask the reason for removing KAS support for this parts? Thank you a lot anyway

The solar panels were bugging me because there is no real balancing between shrouded and unshrouded. The former are much lighter without practical drawbacks. Since I now even moved them ahead in the tech tree, and I was working on KAS support anyway, I thought I found a way to balance them...

But given the problem you mentioned before, I will probably leave them unbalanced for now and revisit the issue later on when other solar panels might be introduced (BoxSat, KSPI...) and I have to work on balancing them anyway.

Maybe this has been asked before, but are the Remotetech and SCANsat contract packs compatible with this mod. So far I am really enjoying this mod, but I really like the idea of contracts that pay to set up the satelite network that you need with Remotetech.

Yes, they are

There's also a new one out, for searching easter eggs, do you approve it Yemo?

Contract Configurator missions for supported mods should work fine in general. RemoteTech ones should be better supported now, with the earlier solar panels (since they do no accept the alkaline fuel cells as permanent power sources).

While I did not test the easter egg one yet, I can not think of special problems with the SETI-BalanceMod.

I consider ContractConfigurator itself to be fully supported and fixing possible issues with the contracts by nightingale will be very high on my priority list.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Yemo

[noahavrum]

The solar panels were bugging me because there is no real balancing between shrouded and unshrouded. The former are much lighter without practical drawbacks. Since I now even moved them ahead in the tech tree, and I was working on KAS support anyway, I thought I found a way to balance them...

But given the problem you mentioned before, I will probably leave them unbalanced for now and revisit the issue later on when other solar panels might be introduced (BoxSat, KSPI...) and I have to work on balancing them anyway.

The best idea I've seen (sorry I can't recall where) was that unshrouded solar panels cannot be retracted once extended. This seems fair and with their intended use.

[SwGustav]

That is a fantastic suggestion! I did not know about AutoPruner, will take a closer look!

May I redistribute your file with the SETI-BalanceMod? Of course full credit given.

Yes, you may redistribute this file and edit it for your needs. I wonder if you can redistribute auto-pruner itself without other prune lists and with auto-script for straight pruning without typing anything.

The best idea I've seen (sorry I can't recall where) was that unshrouded solar panels cannot be retracted once extended. This seems fair and with their intended use.

Stock Rebalance has this feature, I also think this is the best idea, realistic (like Soyuz panels) and logical (why would you retract unprotected panels?).

SETI AutoPruner List Verson 2:

• Pruned Mk1 Structural Fuselage without breaking Mk1 Intake Fuselage
  
• Pruned unused BahamutoD spotlight
  
  
• Pruned deprecated Procedural Fairings stuff
  

Download link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/439bn6a3hk8m6cb/SETI.prnl

Aaaand another mod list suggestion - Active Texture Management. Really helps with RAM for fully modded game further, if you still need/want more after using autopruner.

Edited February 9, 2015 by SwGustav

[RobertJPowell]

Can not thank you enough for this mod Yemo. just thought I'd leave you a little gift of KVV images of what my SETI start has been like.

One thing I love about your balance passes and my game settings is that I can experiment with higher DV requirements but smoother/more realistic gravity turns without the use of NEAR or FAR

For instance, the RS-II-HECS-III started it's gravity turn at approximately 2KM and after achieving orbit still had enough fuel to de-orbit itself above Kerbin's rather large desert

I'll be keeping my eye on this as you progress

Edit: Wanted to change this album to just the first probe of the SETI game. Offset allows us as designers to do all sorts of funky things such as putting batteries and science equipment inside the probe core and then sealing the core inside fuselage for a more aerodynamic shape.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited February 17, 2015 by RobertJPowell
new gallery

[Yemo]

The best idea I've seen (sorry I can't recall where) was that unshrouded solar panels cannot be retracted once extended. This seems fair and with their intended use.

Yes, you may redistribute this file and edit it for your needs. I wonder if you can redistribute auto-pruner itself without other prune lists and with auto-script for straight pruning without typing anything.

Stock Rebalance has this feature, I also think this is the best idea, realistic (like Soyuz panels) and logical (why would you retract unprotected panels?).

SETI AutoPruner List Verson 2:

• Pruned Mk1 Structural Fuselage without breaking Mk1 Intake Fuselage
  
• Pruned unused BahamutoD spotlight
  
  
• Pruned deprecated Procedural Fairings stuff
  

Download link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/439bn6a3hk8m6cb/SETI.prnl

Aaaand another mod list suggestion - Active Texture Management. Really helps with RAM for fully modded game further, if you still need/want more after using autopruner.

Thank you both, that is indeed a great way to balance the solar panels.

And thank you for the AutoPruner config, will try to include it and the solar panel change for the next update.

Added ATM to the recommended mods!

Can not thank you enough for this mod Yemo. just thought I'd leave you a little gift of KVV images of what my SETI start has been like.

One thing I love about your balance passes and my game settings is that I can experiment with higher DV requirements but smoother/more realistic gravity turns without the use of NEAR or FAR

For instance, the RS-II-HECS-III started it's gravity turn at approximately 2KM and after achieving orbit still had enough fuel to de-orbit itself above Kerbin's rather large desert

I'll be keeping my eye on this as you progress

You are welcome!

Those are some great pictures. While reading about the HECS-III, that reminds me about the 3km RemoteTech Omni Antenna. I think it might be reasonable to make the 3km omni available to all but the initial HECS core without tech unlock. The gameplay effect would be minimal in terms of progression (since 3km is not much), but would help for smaller annnoying docking/rover/emergency operations given the 2 kerbal command requirement from a few patches ago.

The pictures also remind me, that I wanted to improve my "showcase/guide" second post ...

[Lord Aurelius]

Every time I come back to thread I see yet more amazing progress being made on this mod. Keep up the good work!

A couple of more mod suggestions:

Better Buoyancy [link] Fixes the worst of KSP's water physics

KAX (Kerbal Aircraft Expansion) [link] Adds a few more aircraft parts, most notably propeller engines. The main reason I'm recommending this is the electric propeller, works great for science aircraft on Eve, Duna and Jool.

I also did some basic proof of concept modding experiments with hybrid rockets and made a basic MM script that made one out of the RT-10 booster, I was thinking it would be awesome if a hybrid rocket part could be implemented using procedural parts. The basic idea is that it's a throttleable booster that fits in between solid and liquid boosters in terms of cost and ISP. If you're interested, here's a link to my thread with the script [link]. (For those not familiar with hybrid rockets, they're basically a rocket that uses solid fuel with liquid oxidizer so they're throttleable but don't have the complex plumbing and fuel pumps of a liquid fueled rocket so they're quite a bit cheaper and lighter.)

Edited February 9, 2015 by Lord Aurelius

[Svm420]

I just wanted to say KAX isnt the most compatible with FAR atm most engines are under powered other than that i love the jump jets that come with that mod. Love this mod so much I started a over just to play a career with it!

[Yemo]

Every time I come back to thread I see yet more amazing progress being made on this mod. Keep up the good work!

A couple of more mod suggestions:

Better Buoyancy [link] Fixes the worst of KSP's water physics

KAX (Kerbal Aircraft Expansion) [link] Adds a few more aircraft parts, most notably propeller engines. The main reason I'm recommending this is the electric propeller, works great for science aircraft on Eve, Duna and Jool.

I also did some basic proof of concept modding experiments with hybrid rockets and made a basic MM script that made one out of the RT-10 booster, I was thinking it would be awesome if a hybrid rocket part could be implemented using procedural parts. The basic idea is that it's a throttleable booster that fits in between solid and liquid boosters in terms of cost and ISP. If you're interested, here's a link to my thread with the script [link]. (For those not familiar with hybrid rockets, they're basically a rocket that uses solid fuel with liquid oxidizer so they're throttleable but don't have the complex plumbing and fuel pumps of a liquid fueled rocket so they're quite a bit cheaper and lighter.)

I just wanted to say KAX isnt the most compatible with FAR atm most engines are under powered other than that i love the jump jets that come with that mod. Love this mod so much I started a over just to play a career with it!

Will take a look at BetterBuoyancy!

KAX looks very interesting.

However it seems to use a customized firespitter.dll, which might conflict with the customized firespitter.dll used by RoverDude.

That is always the problem if people start to customize commonly used dll files...

I m not sure there is (enough of) an effort to come up with a general firespitter.dll again and that can really affect compatibility.

I will probably raise this issue tomorrow in the respecitve threads and continue from there.

The hybrid booster is an interesting concept which could fill a niche.

With FAR, I had the issue of reaching the 18km survey contracts using a basic jet plane.

I strapped 2 boosters to the "Advanced Plane", which is part of the SETI-Craft files, to reach the 18km demanded by many contracts. However the solids were only useable once and often had too much power.

I could retain a very high altitude after using them, but often not quite enough, needing another smaller set of solids...

The hybrid boosters could nicely fill that usability gap, among others...

Btw, the Landertron mod uses something like replenishable solid boosters, filling the other niche.

I just released a very small Spin-Off mod, intended to help other unmanned TechTree mods.

They idea came to mind when ghimb2000 reported another that a post in another TechTree mod reported issues with the 5000m altitude contract, the same issues SETI-BalanceMod had due to starting with probes and the bugs in the stock altitude contracts. Thank you ghimb2000!

Initial Contracts

InitialContracts replaces the buggy/annoying stock starting contracts with 3 similar ones, which can be completed by manned and unmanned craft. Thus the mods contracts are especially useful for TechTrees which start unmanned and may be redistributed with them.

They are based on the SETI-Contracts but more balanced for stock.

Download

Link also in the Contract section of the OP.

The mod Contract Configurator by nightingale is required to use the configs.

These Contract Configurator configs by nightingale and Yemo are based upon the general contracts of the SETI-BalanceMod.

License: You may do what you want (change, expand, mix, redistribute as part of a larger package etc.), as long as you provide the source (eg. SETI-BalanceMod with link) and credit for previous authors (eg. nightingale and Yemo) within the file(s) and at the reference locations (forum thread and download site).

Hence you can just redistribute this file along with eg a tech tree mod under any (even a very restrictive) license as long as you give credit in the form mentioned above.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Yemo

[ghimb2000]

I just released a very small Spin-Off mod, intended to help other unmanned TechTree mods.

They idea came to mind when ghimb2000 reported another that a post in another TechTree mod reported issues with the 5000m altitude contract, the same issues SETI-BalanceMod had due to starting with probes and the bugs in the stock altitude contracts. Thank you ghimb2000!

Not a problem

Glad I can be of help. I especially like the work that has been done by all the Tech Tree modders and I'll be glad to help any way I can

[Lord Aurelius]

Another quick mod suggestion I forgot to mention earlier:

Mk2 Cockpit Internals [link] Adds a proper IVA to the Mk1 inline cockpit (formerly known as the Mk2 before the spaceplanes plus integration)