[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[innomin8]

Hey guys... is the Procedural SRB in Seti-CTT balanced for something other than stock aero & scale? I've got it in my game right now, and a simple craft with HACS + Communotron 16 + Procedural HRB (default size) has 4580m/sec of Delta-V and that seems way too high to me.

[Yemo]

Anybody know how well/poorly Firespitter plays with SETIctt?

I have no idea about the mod (since I prefer KAX).

For me it works pretty good, could you specify what exactly you mean?

On that topic: does anyone know some 1.0.4 SETI compatible mods that fill the following nodes:

Colonization

Automation

Mechatronics

Ressource Exploitation

Advanced Motors

Experimental Motors

Wide Body Aerodynamics

Aerspace Composites

Specializeed Flight Systems

Aerospace Tech

Experimental Aircraft Engines

Experimental Actuators

Exotic Alloys

Gigantic Rocketry

Collosal Rocketry

And mby filling out other nodes more

edit: here is my modlist

InfernalRobotics seems to be missing on that list. I m certain that not all of those nodes can be filled with parts at the moment. It is a bit of work in progress.

I'm trying to fulfill the station contract, "Kerbin Orbital Station!", which says "...consisting of at least one station part (eg Mobile Processing Lab)". So I built a ship which includes all the specified parts (docking port, crew of 2, Mobile Processing Lab) and put it in orbit. The contract then says that I have no "station part". I see in the cfg file that it actually says for the parameter, "vesselType = Station". Yet in looking at the Squad part file for the MPL (largeCrewedLab.cfg), it says "vesselType = Ship". So it's not possible to complete using the MPL. Are there any actual stock parts by Squad that are of vesselType = Station?

Ah, whoops, I forgot to change that. The contract was for the BalanceMod. Have to make MPL a station part again.

I too have a problem with those contracts. It's not clear as to what is required. For example I am stuck with a "Manned Power Landing on Kerbin". Apparently a MK1 pod with a pilot, a TLV-200 fuel tank and a LV-T45 engine do not meet the criteria of no aero and parachute parts and 1 kerbal crew reaching 500m. Plus you still get a parachute with the very first note which is probably not intended (part given is RealChute Cone Chute)

EDIT: it seems like if you launch any kind of vessel after taking this contract then it is impossible to complete it as it will look for that other vessel instead. Might be same problem with the space station parts. If you launch anything after taking the contract it might be looking at a different vessel. I aborted the contract after I had my satellites I wanted in place and it worked with the same configuration.

Yep, but I m not sure how to do it differently.

I already removed the landing requirement from nearly all other contracts.

For anyone wanting to hide the empty nodes in the CTT, someone has written a config for it.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/100385-1-04-Community-Tech-Tree-2-1-last-updated-06-05-15?p=2102279&viewfull=1#post2102279

Ah, will have to try it sometime, but I prefer to see the full tree, eg for inspiration to install other mods.

Here's the real issue (for me) that I see with this tech tree mod. While the technology is laid out in a very well thought out manner, if you're using MKS, the majority of the parts are available very late, or at the end of the tech tree. Maybe this is RoverDude's categorization as well as this modified tree, but the issue that I have with this is that it makes the entire point of colonization moot.

What I was looking forward to was the ability to colonize other planets/moons, set up resource extraction sites, as well as science-collecting sites, to further my expansion in the solar system. However, since the required technology to do all this is at the end of the tech tree, this means that by the time I can do all this, there will be no point in doing it, since I will be finished with the tech tree and have no further need of science. At that point it just becomes sandbox play. This goes back to the original difficulty curve in collecting science in this game, where you could finish the tech tree before ever leaving Kerbin's SOI. For many players (myself included), this results in a loss of motivation for further exploration.

Upon reflection, I think that in order to play the game the way I envision it, I'm going to have to come up with my own tech tree that allows base-building and mining earlier in the tech tree, while moving a number of the science-gathering instruments to later in the tech tree. This will encourage base-building on the Mun/Minmus to create a refueling station, and a slow colonization/expansion into the rest of the solar system. Unless someone knows of a mod that already does this?

I did not change any node placement for MKS/OKS (or anything else regarding MKS/OKS so far).

But with Karbonite the first resoucre extraction is available at scienceTech for 300 science, parts from KerbalPlanetaryBaseSystem and space station parts are available for 300 science as well. Thus before fuel lines and most of the nuclear techs (KSPIextended, NFpropulsion).

I recommend using more mods to fill out the later nodes of the tech tree as well as a bigger solar system (OuterPlanets).

In any case, in reality we sent a probe to Pluto while we did not yet manage to do more than a low orbit space station around our home planet.

While I'm not familiar with "Bog-standard Community Tech Tree", have you tried just using that? (And if so, does/would it help with the problem you're running into?) There's also OpenTree, but I don't know where the MKS parts fall on that.

I also saw this relative newcomer the other day. It doesn't look like he's incorporated the Kolonization stuff yet, though.

There was an interesting project around which starts with resource techs, called Project Rock: Rebirth of Civilization Kerbal, by Krakenfour:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/122283

Might be closer to what you are looking for.

Hey guys... is the Procedural SRB in Seti-CTT balanced for something other than stock aero & scale? I've got it in my game right now, and a simple craft with HACS + Communotron 16 + Procedural HRB (default size) has 4580m/sec of Delta-V and that seems way too high to me.

Hm, for some reason they get the ISP values which should only be for HRBs.

And all the procedural SRB ISP values seem to be based on 0.90, while the 1.0.x boosters seem to have much lower ISPs.

Not sure how to correct the first issue, but I can take another look at the ISPs, although I would prefer it if ProceduralParts does that...

[goldenpsp]

In any case, in reality we sent a probe to Pluto while we did not yet manage to do more than a low orbit space station around our home planet.

Well to be fair, this is overly simplified. We also sent men into space and the moon essentially after only a couple basic satellites. And if we want to talk career mode, if the powerhouse countries of the world put the amount of money into their space programs as they do into military programs, we'd probably be on mars already.

[Landwalker]

I have no idea about the mod (since I prefer KAX).

Ah, that makes sense. I like the KAX stuff too, and after looking at Firespitter more it's just too... shiny? Bright? Blindingly colorful?

I think until Tantares is ready for SETI I've probably about tapped out on parts-focused mods for now.

[kcs123]

Firespitter is good, but lot of parts are not properly updated to work with latest FAR and new voxelization system.

So, until Snjo got more time for it, I was also turned to KAX, it have all what need to fullfil gaps in stock parts.

[Spheniscine]

Is something wrong here? I tried installing this modpack but I think I have a bunch of tech nodes missing. In particular, there only seems to be one command-pod node that comes late, and I can't find the Mk1 Command Pod anywhere.

Screenshot:

http://gyazo.com/c4498d7dfc69f68b428de60e35482abc

[Nori]

Looks like you don't have the community tech tree from what i can tell.

You sure you installed it correctly?

[Landwalker]

Is something wrong here? I tried installing this modpack but I think I have a bunch of tech nodes missing. In particular, there only seems to be one command-pod node that comes late, and I can't find the Mk1 Command Pod anywhere.

Screenshot:

http://gyazo.com/c4498d7dfc69f68b428de60e35482abc

I can tell by looking at that screenshot that there is something wrong: You have the wrong tech tree. Not sure how. Did you install the modpack from CKAN, or otherwise? (Pre-Post Edit: As Nori said, looks like CTT itself might be missing).

If you have SETI-CTT installed correctly, it should look like this:

[Spheniscine]

Yes, I installed it via CKAN. But it tells me I have both CTT and SETI-CTT.

[Yemo]

Yes, I installed it via CKAN. But it tells me I have both CTT and SETI-CTT.

I ll need a screenshot of your GameData folder and your CKAN installed mods filter.

There is definately an installation issue.

[Spheniscine]

CKAN 1: http://gyazo.com/8b01c474b013b96d1f5850a71cd92db2

CKAN 2: http://gyazo.com/7639c54471ff1b52f283e26f90bb0910

GameData Folder: http://gyazo.com/52a2ea9bfee4b12bee9af63236be9f71

"custom" only contains a Module Manager config making all parts non-physicsless. customflags only contains flags, as what it says on the tin.

Also, where are the SETI starter craft, or are they not included in this version due to changes in both stock aero and FAR?

Edited July 31, 2015 by Spheniscine

[Yemo]

CKAN 1: http://gyazo.com/8b01c474b013b96d1f5850a71cd92db2

CKAN 2: http://gyazo.com/7639c54471ff1b52f283e26f90bb0910

GameData Folder: http://gyazo.com/52a2ea9bfee4b12bee9af63236be9f71

"custom" only contains a Module Manager config making all parts non-physicsless. customflags only contains flags, as what it says on the tin.

Also, where are the SETI starter craft, or are they not included in this version due to changes in both stock aero and FAR?

The starter craft were part of the SETI BalanceMod, which got shut down by Squad with KSP 1.0.x. It was just not worth making new ones, since every version (excep 1.0.3) changed important stats since 1.0.0 and there is no telling when that stops.

The problem with your install is, that you have an ancient version of ModuleManager installed. It probably prevents CKAN from installing the right one, which it should do automatically together with SETIctt/SETIcontracts.

Also the physicsless flag does not result in parts being physicsless, they are just handled differently (the name is misleading).

[Spheniscine]

Also the physicsless flag does not result in parts being physicsless, they are just handled differently (the name is misleading).

You mean in terms of now adding mass to the parent part in KSP 1.0.x? Yes, I know that, that's why I have it. I don't want "physicsless parts" to add mass to the parent part; I'd rather they have their own mass. That way I avoid the heat-shield flipping problem, as well as the problem of the editor engineering tools (CoM etc.) still treating physicsless parts as completely physicsless.

Maybe I should release that, if it hasn't been already. It's not exactly a complicated mod.

By the way thanks for diagnosing the ModuleManager problem - in hindsight that should probably have been checked first >.< Either that or just chuck the whole mod folder into a backup archive before using CKAN and add things I want back.

Kinda unfortunate about the stock craft, but I understand. Just wish I had some starter planes though; I don't know how to begin designing one that works in the new aero or FAR.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Spheniscine

[kcs123]

There is few starter craft available in my craft exchange thread. Link is in signature. All of those were made for FAR, to work with stock aero, some of planes will need weight balance due to mass/strength wing FAR feature.

But, once you got hang of build with FAR, it will be much easier than stock aero. FAR will provide you with nice tools, once you are able to understand it more.

[Shaggygoblin]

To whom it may concern,

I use LOTS of probes. I have many custom ones. Many I got through various Mods, including MM Patches from this mod.

I love your mod.

However...

There's an issue in SETIctt-Settings.cfg.

Specifically:

//---Add electric charge---\\
@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]:HAS[#minimumCrew[0]]]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
{
@amount = 200
@maxAmount = 200
}
}

//---Probe Cores---\\

As it stands, that entry overwrites everything, which is probably fine for most...

I have spent several hours trying to sort out where my maxEC kept loafing off to... and here I found it... I have spent more time trying to make sense of MM to try and present 'something' as a means to try and sort this, instead of the usual "why you broke my game fix it, wut are logs?."

I pose this attempt at a solution, to keep the functionality, but be more forgiving on those of us who, for whatever reason, have 'Stored EC' values already on the cores we use:

Add Electric Charge IF less than 200']

[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]:HAS[#minimumCrew[0]],@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]:HAS[#maxAmount[<200]]]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
{
@amount = 200
@maxAmount = 200
}
}

@PART

It's several hours past my bedtime now, so, I will test this on my install in the morn. This may not work at all... MM Nub here. Anyway, cheers and keep the SETI going!

EDIT: It may require the use of [!Resource... or something like [!#maxAmount[>200]]... it confuses the heck out of me, especially this late at night...lol. I hope we can sort this as it shouldn't need to come down to having anyone with existing 'Stored EC' on their probes having to make zManyMods:FINAL Patches:FINAL to patch SETI Patches:FOR[sETIctt]. Surely, that can be avoided with just adding a further filter in the @PART search.:FINAL:!important

See... just being silly now...

I need sleep, good night all!!

Edited August 3, 2015 by Shaggygoblin
Solved by Nori

[Nori]

Yeah I ran into that "issue" with some probes from Tantares. So I just changed the line to:

//---Add electric charge
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]:HAS[#minimumCrew[0]],@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]:HAS[#maxAmount[<200]]]
{
	@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
	{
		@amount = 200
		@maxAmount = 200
	}
}

[Shaggygoblin]

Yeah I ran into that "issue" with some probes from Tantares. So I just changed the line to:

//---Add electric charge
@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]:HAS[#minimumCrew[0]],@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]:HAS[#maxAmount[<200]]]
{
    @RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
    {
        @amount = 200
        @maxAmount = 200
    }
}

i couldn't sleep, this was keeping me awake...lol

i had:

... ,@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]:HAS[#maxAmount[<200]] // missing 3rd closing bracket.

I was adding <=200, =<200, <200, [~#maxAmount, [!#maxAmount... doing circles because of a bracket...lol

I need an Auto-Closer for Brackets & Braces in NP++

Nori, YOU are a PEACH! Now, if we can get the Author to incorporate this...

We might ought to get a couple/few/several more peeps to verify this works as well, but two for two is a good start!

Ty, again, Nori!!

Time to SLEEEEP!! :BEFORE[sETIctt]

Edited August 3, 2015 by Shaggygoblin
[SOLVED] Updated related post #1390

[Nori]

i couldn't sleep, this was keeping me awake...lol

i had:

... ,@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]:HAS[#maxAmount[<200]] // missing 3rd closing bracket.

I was adding <=200, =<200, <200, [~#maxAmount, [!#maxAmount... doing circles because of a bracket...lol

I need an Auto-Closer for Brackets & Braces in NP++

Nori, YOU are a PEACH! Now, if we can get the Author to incorporate this...

We might ought to get a couple/few/several more peeps to verify this works as well, but two for two is a good start!

Ty, again, Nori!!

Time to SLEEEEP!! :BEFORE[sETIctt]

Yeah the brackets get really confusing because it is a nested statement. Glad to help and I'm guessing Yemo will probably add it as I can't help but think it fits with what he is trying to do.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Nori
past to present

[DaMichel]

I'm playing through a SETI campaign with KScale2 and couple of other mods. Excellent work so far. Much better than stock.

There are two issues that bug me a little. First, fuel lines come very late. I know, asparagus staging. But they are also needed for shuttles (main engine on shuttle, fed by external tank). AFAIK there is no other way to do it. I think a good place to introduce fuel lines is the same tier that the medium sized space plane parts are on.

Secondly, big space plane parts are split over two successive tiers. So cargo bays and tanks come first, next tier has cockpit, adapters and so on. Cargo bays and fuel tanks are pretty useless without the adapters, therefore things should be rearranged a little.

[Nori]

I'm playing through a SETI campaign with KScale2 and couple of other mods. Excellent work so far. Much better than stock.

There are two issues that bug me a little. First, fuel lines come very late. I know, asparagus staging. But they are also needed for shuttles (main engine on shuttle, fed by external tank). AFAIK there is no other way to do it. I think a good place to introduce fuel lines is the same tier that the medium sized space plane parts are on.

Secondly, big space plane parts are split over two successive tiers. So cargo bays and tanks come first, next tier has cockpit, adapters and so on. Cargo bays and fuel tanks are pretty useless without the adapters, therefore things should be rearranged a little.

Yeah I agree about the fuel line. Personally I moved it back to where it is in stock. I could see moving it one tier down, but I think going as far as he did is too much. That is my opinion though.

[SmashBrown]

Hello Yemo!

I have just stumbled upon the tantares pack, could you at some point, when time permits, right up a cfg for the ctt for it? Please!

[Wolfox]

Hello Yemo, I really enjoy your pack, but there is one thing that bugs me. I am playing fresh career on hard mode, low funds, low science, no reverts or quicksaves etc, and because I play with BDArmory, I thought myself lets make some money meanwhile missions are ongoing, with some military contracts. But ALL BDArmory weapons are under single node Precision Engineering, pretty far for me right now, so I don´t have access to any weapon at all. Is this "distribution" of weapons in the tree intentional? Or maybe its some kind of bug, can post modlist if this isn´t supposed to happen.

[goldenpsp]

Hello Yemo, I really enjoy your pack, but there is one thing that bugs me. I am playing fresh career on hard mode, low funds, low science, no reverts or quicksaves etc, and because I play with BDArmory, I thought myself lets make some money meanwhile missions are ongoing, with some military contracts. But ALL BDArmory weapons are under single node Precision Engineering, pretty far for me right now, so I don´t have access to any weapon at all. Is this "distribution" of weapons in the tree intentional? Or maybe its some kind of bug, can post modlist if this isn´t supposed to happen.

Wolfox. Keep in mind that SETI is utilizing the community tech tree. So if BDArmory doesn't support CTT you may find parts in wonky places. But this isn't a SETI issue per se.

[Wolfox]

Wolfox. Keep in mind that SETI is utilizing the community tech tree. So if BDArmory doesn't support CTT you may find parts in wonky places. But this isn't a SETI issue per se.

The thing is, few updates back they were distributed along CCT with SETI config, now they aren´t...

[Yemo]

Hey all,

I probably have Time to continue dev at the end of next week.

I ll try to include all the bugfixes and Feedback from the last pages.