[1.4.*] [2.5.3] (2018-04-06) UbioZur Welding Ltd. Continued

[Alewx]

Just now, Bloojay said:

Yeah that's what I mean, and there doesn't appear to be a convenient "Turn Off body lift" button anywhere in the weldament file. I've even set the Aero model from "Default" to "none" after some snooping around how to edit part config files, and it didn't really do anything.

Nope, there is no such thing.

Girka2k, was attempting a new GUI and module handling for weldments where such an option would be possible, but he left and was not seen again.

[Bloojay]

@Alewx is there anyway to at least make the part believe it's facing a different Direction? The bug I'm dealing with is caused by parts with body lift facing odd directions to the direction of travel, so if there's a way to set the part so the game thinks it's oriented differently the game wouldn't cause the bug. So far my only option to solve this is to outright disable all body lift in the game, which would render my craft unflyable because Ironically it get's most of it's lift from Body lift.

[Alewx]

43 minutes ago, Bloojay said:

@Alewx is there anyway to at least make the part believe it's facing a different Direction? The bug I'm dealing with is caused by parts with body lift facing odd directions to the direction of travel, so if there's a way to set the part so the game thinks it's oriented differently the game wouldn't cause the bug. So far my only option to solve this is to outright disable all body lift in the game, which would render my craft unflyable because Ironically it get's most of it's lift from Body lift.

Only by changing the placement of the parts. there is no default mechanic in welding for such problems.

[beta546]

Hey I have been building a replica of the NX-01 enterprise and it is actually looking pretty good....it is about 150 parts pre weld, without the bits that can't be welded...I have found though that you can weld ANYTHING, as long as you only want the piece to be aesthetic and not functional as long as you remove the relevant modules in the part file....so I welded all these parts together, wiped out everything in the part file to basically make it a huge tank with xenon, electric charge, with built in radiators...deleted pretty much every node as that seems to make it load quicker? And I get that every texture is still loaded, even none visible parts.....But, can anyone explain why the welded part lags more than the un welded 150 parts? lol It has stumped me...seeing as un welded it is loading modules for animations, reactors, ISRUs, solar panels, command modules and many many others.....and welded it is essentially just a big tank and the textures obviously. I can't see it being the textures, as welded and un welded they are the same....anyone have any ideas? :-)

[Alewx]

3 hours ago, beta546 said:

Hey I have been building a replica of the NX-01 enterprise and it is actually looking pretty good....it is about 150 parts pre weld, without the bits that can't be welded...I have found though that you can weld ANYTHING, as long as you only want the piece to be aesthetic and not functional as long as you remove the relevant modules in the part file....so I welded all these parts together, wiped out everything in the part file to basically make it a huge tank with xenon, electric charge, with built in radiators...deleted pretty much every node as that seems to make it load quicker? And I get that every texture is still loaded, even none visible parts.....But, can anyone explain why the welded part lags more than the un welded 150 parts? lol It has stumped me...seeing as un welded it is loading modules for animations, reactors, ISRUs, solar panels, command modules and many many others.....and welded it is essentially just a big tank and the textures obviously. I can't see it being the textures, as welded and un welded they are the same....anyone have any ideas? :-)

That is due to the underlying technology of unity.

just because it is welded into a single part is does not mean it is really just one single massive object. with welding we just removed one level in the object tree.
Since Unity5 welding is more for aesthetics than for performance. with the update of PhysiX it changed a lot.

Offtopic: did you ever flip an 24th century Akira class on the back?

[beta546]

14 minutes ago, Alewx said:

That is due to the underlying technology of unity.

just because it is welded into a single part is does not mean it is really just one single massive object. with welding we just removed one level in the object tree.
Since Unity5 welding is more for aesthetics than for performance. with the update of PhysiX it changed a lot.

Offtopic: did you ever flip an 24th century Akira class on the back?

Well that doesn't mean much to me haha, but I trust in your knowledge. And now for something I should maybe have thought about before hand, if the none welded ship is not lagging, why the hell am I even welding it :-D All that needs to be added is the engines and power plants really.

 

As for the Akira class, how did I never notice that :-D Well Now my ship is kind of a 2 for the price of one :-P

[Alewx]

7 minutes ago, beta546 said:

Well that doesn't mean much to me haha, but I trust in your knowledge. And now for something I should maybe have thought about before hand, if the none welded ship is not lagging, why the hell am I even welding it :-D All that needs to be added is the engines and power plants really.

 

As for the Akira class, how did I never notice that :-D Well Now my ship is kind of a 2 for the price of one :-P

Because as a single welded part it is less likely to break, welding is more of a structural cheat^^

[beta546]

1 minute ago, Alewx said:

Because as a single welded part it is less likely to break, welding is more of a structural cheat^^

I got that bit at least haha :-P 

Anyway just in case you were interested...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bx2wRQ9mF1AITHZBSTBpOS1tSVE?usp=sharing

I still don't know how to upload pictures on here :-D Anyway this adds less clutter to the thread haha

[Alewx]

4 hours ago, beta546 said:

I got that bit at least haha :-P 

Anyway just in case you were interested...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bx2wRQ9mF1AITHZBSTBpOS1tSVE?usp=sharing

I still don't know how to upload pictures on here :-D Anyway this adds less clutter to the thread haha

Nice one^^
What did you use to create the saucer section?

When you create a post, the insert other media button will give the option to add Images but they have to be uploaded at another page, just like you did.

[beta546]

1 hour ago, Alewx said:

Nice one^^
What did you use to create the saucer section?

When you create a post, the insert other media button will give the option to add Images but they have to be uploaded at another page, just like you did.

Thanks :-) First replica of a ship I have ever attempted haha, so I'm quite proud of it. The saucer is procedural parts... it is in two halves, top and bottom, really good for making saucers, used procedural parts for the nacelles too, as on the NX they get slightly more narrow toward the back.. so if it wasn't for procedural parts I would t even have attempted it :-D I made an attempt at a constellation class also last week. It looks okay I think, but it became more about functionality than looking exactly right, as I'm building these in my career game. That one I did weld and it reduced the lag a lot, that's why I was surprised the NX lagged ,more when welded haha. I'll show you the constellation after I get back home tomorrow. And try upload the screen properly as you described :-)

[ssss222]

later used weid mod reload database and add rcs

[Alewx]

13 hours ago, ssss222 said:

later used weid mod reload database and add rcs

I do not unterstand what you mean.

[Skalgrin]

Hi,

a quick question about UbioZur Welding Ltd. Continued. I never used this mod before, but I thought it could be helpful to maintain performance on bigger and/or rather part numerous, creations. Therefore as I was yesterday preparing fresh install and mods - I eagerly took it. But now after reading the "how to use" and few last pages of forum - I am puzzled. Thing is someone mentioned in U5 the welding is rather for structural strength improvement, part limit workaround and aesthetics, rather than for improving performance (which I believe is genuine benefit of this mod). For me only the performance is crucial (speaking of this mod) and if this would be true, I would likely drop this mod in current install as for structural strength I would go for KJR and that would be it.

Does welding (still) have significant(-ish) positive impact on KSP performance in 1.3 64 bit?

Thanks

[Guest Space Cowboy]

Yeah it's my understanding the performance benefit of Weld It have somehow decreased. I am the creator of the original "stock" Falcon which Weld It made possible. Performance gains in recent builds have not been as good.

 

 

[Skalgrin]

Thanks for reply. I gave it try and it stays! However I will use it for "stock" - I dont need to weld parts if mod provides - but for stock... damn, how could I live without it?

[Alewx]

17 hours ago, Skalgrin said:

Thanks for reply. I gave it try and it stays! However I will use it for "stock" - I dont need to weld parts if mod provides - but for stock... damn, how could I live without it?

There is only a rather minor improvement in performance, actually loading time can increase massively with bigger weldments.
And KJR can not stick two tanks together to act like one

[Edward Bustamante]

I'm having a problem with welded tanks showing no fuel and negative mass.

KSP version 1.3

Welding version 2.5.1

Mods installed:

Community Category Kit

Fuel Wings

GPO Speed Pump

KAS

KIS

Maneuver Node Evolved

MechJeb2

Mouse Aim Flight

SCANsat

UbioWeldingLtd

Module Manager 2.8.1

Link to pre-weld craft file:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4m5xxd2eqnxs5wg/AAAajnfdFrU8G8KyY1GQKtwMa?dl=0

Link to Ksp Log:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eh8nn1bkcpymuip/AAAfupqOH0o90YYbYV0xWOFua?dl=0

 

 

[Alewx]

13 hours ago, Edward Bustamante said:

I'm having a problem with welded tanks showing no fuel and negative mass.

KSP version 1.3

Welding version 2.5.1

Mods installed:

Community Category Kit

Fuel Wings

GPO Speed Pump

KAS

KIS

Maneuver Node Evolved

MechJeb2

Mouse Aim Flight

SCANsat

UbioWeldingLtd

Module Manager 2.8.1

Link to pre-weld craft file:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4m5xxd2eqnxs5wg/AAAajnfdFrU8G8KyY1GQKtwMa?dl=0

Link to Ksp Log:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eh8nn1bkcpymuip/AAAfupqOH0o90YYbYV0xWOFua?dl=0

 

 

did you restart the game after welding?

the log shows that extraplanetorylaunchpads is throwing an exception.

and the tanks seem to contain empty internals but that does not cause any problems, it is removed in my current branch.

it lacks the partfiles of the weldments to see further.

Logs should be of the welding process

[pearldrumbum]

Hi I'm having an issue with the pricing of welded parts. I'm playing in career mode and want the price of my welded part to reflect the total cost of all the parts that went into it, which I believe is the intended behavior. Since I have already unlocked all the parts needed to make the part in the first place, I edit the .cfg file for the new part before restarting the game to entryCost = 1 , but leave cost = [total]. In the cfg file it shows the correct amount. When I start up the game and try to unlock the part  it shows some ungodly amount that I can't afford as the unlock cost, and cost after unlock is about 5x what it should be. Any ideas where I should look? I'm playing on hard mode, so I don't know if my funds penalties are partially to blame, but that is set at 200% and doesn't account for the drastic difference I'm seeing.

Example-part.cfg:

entryCost = 1

cost = 43636

 

In game:

654,540 to unlock

218,180 cost after unlock (exactly 5x what it should be)

 

if it has to do with funds penalties because of my difficulty settings, I would think at most it would be twice the cost, and at any rate the unlock cost is wayyyy off.

[Alewx]

On ‎27‎.‎09‎.‎2017 at 6:53 AM, pearldrumbum said:

Hi I'm having an issue with the pricing of welded parts. I'm playing in career mode and want the price of my welded part to reflect the total cost of all the parts that went into it, which I believe is the intended behavior. Since I have already unlocked all the parts needed to make the part in the first place, I edit the .cfg file for the new part before restarting the game to entryCost = 1 , but leave cost = [total]. In the cfg file it shows the correct amount. When I start up the game and try to unlock the part  it shows some ungodly amount that I can't afford as the unlock cost, and cost after unlock is about 5x what it should be. Any ideas where I should look? I'm playing on hard mode, so I don't know if my funds penalties are partially to blame, but that is set at 200% and doesn't account for the drastic difference I'm seeing.

Example-part.cfg:

entryCost = 1

cost = 43636

 

In game:

654,540 to unlock

218,180 cost after unlock (exactly 5x what it should be)

 

if it has to do with funds penalties because of my difficulty settings, I would think at most it would be twice the cost, and at any rate the unlock cost is wayyyy off.

try to unlcok it in a game with normal mofidiers where everything is set to 1* as multiplier, to see what is going on.
and then look for the cost in the part, because I never saw this.

Which gameverison are u using?

[bananasrawesome]

How do I use this to combine a few parts to make a new one based on the values of the components? For instance, a nozzle (this isn't meant to be exact) has a gimbal range of 2 degrees, an amplified thrust of x10 and it can dissipate heat. A combustion assembly has a full thrust of 5 kn, intakes 1 fuel per second with 2 oxidiser, generates 0.1 ec per second, and emits heat. The combined part uses the stock engine module and those values to make up an engine. If I need to make a plugin to make it happen, where do I start?

[Alewx]

On ‎03‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 2:02 AM, bananasrawesome said:

How do I use this to combine a few parts to make a new one based on the values of the components? For instance, a nozzle (this isn't meant to be exact) has a gimbal range of 2 degrees, an amplified thrust of x10 and it can dissipate heat. A combustion assembly has a full thrust of 5 kn, intakes 1 fuel per second with 2 oxidiser, generates 0.1 ec per second, and emits heat. The combined part uses the stock engine module and those values to make up an engine. If I need to make a plugin to make it happen, where do I start?

When you read the first page with the Information about the mod, I'm sure You saw this:

Quote

Known Issues

welded engines are causing a major trouble

All the other things you are asking for are modifications of the partfile.

[Kerbal101]

I noticed that if one wields a dozen of rather complex models into one unit, like - 40 pcs of battman400s, then physics are simplified, however draw complexity overhead persists. So that newly wielded part will have same impact on rendering pipeline - which is 25% of fps drop, but lower impact on physics pipeline.

Is there a way to also optimize the wield result, so that it issues less draw calls? To integrate the whole contents into new part instead of reference them, so to say. I am not a programmer, so I am just describing what I experience. Thanks!

[Alewx]

12 hours ago, Kerbal101 said:

I noticed that if one wields a dozen of rather complex models into one unit, like - 40 pcs of battman400s, then physics are simplified, however draw complexity overhead persists. So that newly wielded part will have same impact on rendering pipeline - which is 25% of fps drop, but lower impact on physics pipeline.

Is there a way to also optimize the wield result, so that it issues less draw calls? To integrate the whole contents into new part instead of reference them, so to say. I am not a programmer, so I am just describing what I experience. Thanks!

That would be a matter of not just welding and merging the parts, but bringing the models into the same file so that it in the end is just one call instead of all the listed models.

[Kerbal101]

@Alewx Correct, but stuff that moves or throws lights has problems welding anyway, doesn't it? The positive side is that there'll be "true" welding, easier description of don'ts ("don't weld moving parts") and a massive performance bonus.