"Far is hard"

[DaMichel]

I find that FAR makes building good planes substantially more difficult. Sure, I can make just about anything fly with enough thrust (KSP Interstellar fusion thermoturbojets could fly a city bus or herd of goats into orbit, with enough struts), but the tricky part for me is making it fly well. I've wrestled spaceplanes into orbit in heated, seat-of-the-pants pilot-versus-aircraft fights, but only rarely can I build something that doesn't wobble horrendously.

I think this could very well be a control input issue. With mouse and keyboard you have only binary inputs, deflect or don't deflect. So each time you hit W/S you create a perturbation. Planes are known to react to this with wobble. It is called Short-period pitch oscillation.

SAS unfortunately does not help with this because it is tuned for stock physics. The way to fly with less wobble is (a) using trim (ALT-WASD) and/or FAR flight assistance systems. Best thing is if you have a joystick of course.

Oh and i should say that there is also an autopilot mod which has a pitch hold mode and things like this.

To make the actual plane less wobbly i think you have to increase the size of the tail plane but i'm not sure about it. Probably someone already answered that.

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OT: i voted FAR is hard. But it really depends. Building a rocket is pretty easy. Slap on some fins and it's going to fly perfectly straight. If you are careful you can also launch crazy contraptions, which is hard. Building a simple plane, like a Cessna is very easy. Just copy an existing design. I mean, add wings, add tail plane, elevators, ailerons, vertical stabilizer, CoM in front of CoL - it is probably going to fly. Building a spaceplane that can carry a significant payload or building an extraordinary plane design is hard again. Build building a spaceplane in stock is also hard, so it's no big deal.

Edited January 19, 2015 by DaMichel

[LaydeeDem]

You don't need fins. Just copy real life.

Made a Delta IV Medium for RSS, referencing the Wikipedia page. Guess what? It works, and it works really well! Those rocket people really know what they are doing!

15km/s of ÃŽâ€v with payload.

[Jarin]

Rockets are significantly easier (as soon as someone tells you that 45 degree turns are bad), while I find planes significantly harder. I have not made a successful supersonic flight and landed it again since I installed FAR. I'm starting to suspect that everyone saying that it's easy has a joystick easily available...

[regex]

Rockets are significantly easier (as soon as someone tells you that 45 degree turns are bad), while I find planes significantly harder. I have not made a successful supersonic flight and landed it again since I installed FAR. I'm starting to suspect that everyone saying that it's easy has a joystick easily available...

I've made spaceplanes to orbit and back to landing successfully using FAR/DRE without having a joystick. It's a bit more noodley than stock, but you can do it.

[Hodo]

Rockets are significantly easier (as soon as someone tells you that 45 degree turns are bad), while I find planes significantly harder. I have not made a successful supersonic flight and landed it again since I installed FAR. I'm starting to suspect that everyone saying that it's easy has a joystick easily available...

I dont use a joystick, but I do use FAR and DRE....

Just a few of my more used craft in my regular KSP install. I can land quite well without a stick. I just find it easier to line up on the runway from about 10km out at 1km altitude and follow a nice gentle glide slope in of about 2-3deg. Usually touching down around 70-90m/s on some of my craft I can land at 50-60m/s.

[DaMichel]

You don't need fins. Just copy real life.

I never really succeeded in doing so. But i play with stock Kerbin mostly. The one rocket i built for 6.4x scale Kerbin also needed smallish fins IIRC. Copying an RL rocket may be fun for once but i prefer to build creatively "the kerbal way". My most extreme example is probably the old Eve mission.

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In my option the need to consider aerodynamic forces adds to the gameplay and makes it more fun. It may be a little harder but this is relative in this game because there is always the next greater challenge.

@Jarin: Since i mentioned using a joystick - i have one but when i'm lazy i play with KB and mouse just fine. This could be helpful: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures.

Edited January 21, 2015 by DaMichel

[Jarin]

regex, hodo: I did say "people claiming it's easy" , I never claimed impossible. Just takes a lot more work/understanding/experience.

Mostly, I think, I can't land the blasted things without the soup to slow me down. WTB Stock flaps/aerobrakes...

[Van Disaster]

regex, hodo: I did say "people claiming it's easy" , I never claimed impossible. Just takes a lot more work/understanding/experience.

Mostly, I think, I can't land the blasted things without the soup to slow me down. WTB Stock flaps/aerobrakes...

Any FAR control surface can be a flap ( although your rudders might get confused ) - and you can make anything an airbrake too, but it'll stop it doing anything else.

[Hodo]

You can set control surfaces to be spoilers and flaps in the sph building. And it is not easy at first, but after you practice a bit it become s easy. But I come from a real flight Sim mentality where I know it takes several dozen kilometers to slow down while flying. But B9 and Firespitter has air brakes along with retro future.

[Tidus Klein]

I still have yet to see any craft in FAR that can remotely compete with the most agile stock planes, for instance, and you'll never end up in a catastrophic stall in stock. Stock aero enables more planes to fly with fewer complications, so in stock, arbitrarily-designed craft are far more likely to fly satisfactorily.

woooo so the planes I make? the ones I specifically make for maneuverability would work better in stock?...sorry I really wish I could show you my 45+ gee super jet using far..but sadly that was 5 or so updates ago and the screen-shots are lost. I have always been able to make crazy maneuverable jets in FAR, when the most I was ever able to pull in stock was 15 g's in fact look here CLICK ME back before I played with FAR, and amazingly my plane maneuver better in far. you can still make super maneuverable planes with FAR you just have to know what your doing.

[Wanderfound]

Rockets are significantly easier (as soon as someone tells you that 45 degree turns are bad), while I find planes significantly harder. I have not made a successful supersonic flight and landed it again since I installed FAR. I'm starting to suspect that everyone saying that it's easy has a joystick easily available...

Keyboard flyer, with a movement disorder that makes even hitting the keyboard accurately a bit tricky at times. I do okay...

Edited January 26, 2015 by Wanderfound

[LaydeeDem]

There IS a joystick mod for KSP, just saying. It also has a keyboard limiter if you want to stick with key controls. It's called RKE On Screen Joystick.