[1.9-1.10] Throttle Controlled Avionics

[allista]

36 minutes ago, kcs123 said:

CKAN already shows version 3.2.1.1. as latest. Is there something I missed ?

It did show the right version, but it was unable to install it correctly, which led to many reports on the last pages of the thread: it removed the 000_AT_Utils from the archive and as a result TCA did not work. Now AT_Utils are also on CKAN and are marked as a requirement, so CKAN should install it along with TCA.

[kcs123]

Just reinstalled trough CKAN. AT Utils are now forced to install to as dependency. It should work, haven't actualy test it in game, just installed.

[Rus_1952]

Can i get previous version of this mod somehow? It seems current does not work with RSS+RO. I have same "no authority" issue like the guy above. Also i noticed intresting thing: when i enabeling TCA, engine's action menu shows me negative throttle and engine does not work.

1) TCA disabled, engines working.

2)TCA enabled, throttle negative, nothing works

 

Edited July 20, 2016 by Rus_1952

[allista]

11 minutes ago, Rus_1952 said:

Can i get previous version of this mod somehow? It seems current does not work with RSS+RO. I have same "no authority" issue like the guy above. Also i noticed intresting thing: when i enabeling TCA, engine's action menu shows me negative throttle and engine does not work.

1) TCA disabled, engines working.

2)TCA enabled, throttle negative, nothing works

Thanks for the report. The second screenshot tells much about the bug involved!

All the previous versions are available at SpaceDock.

Edited July 20, 2016 by allista

[vardicd]

Sorry, but I fear I need help, just found and installed this mod, but the only button I have in game leads to the TCA manual, I don't have a button to turn the system on and start using it. The fact that it does show the manual in game seems to indicate I have it, at least semi-install correctly, but something has gone wrong somewhere. I'd appreciate any help, just tell me what you need from me  Screen shot from in my game below.

Edited July 27, 2016 by vardicd

[vardicd]

After further testing, i can get the control interface to show up, but only after my craft has crashed and there are no more engines on it. then the interface opens up and becomes available.

[allista]

11 hours ago, vardicd said:

After further testing, i can get the control interface to show up, but only after my craft has crashed and there are no more engines on it. then the interface opens up and becomes available.

Are you playing in sandbox? If not, you need to get TCA in R&D (and I need to add a status page into the manual).

If yes, I see two separate bugs: the interface should be available in flight in sandbox; if and only if you have engines/rcs. In that case, please, post the logs.

[vardicd]

1 hour ago, allista said:

Are you playing in sandbox? If not, you need to get TCA in R&D (and I need to add a status page into the manual).

If yes, I see two separate bugs: the interface should be available in flight in sandbox; if and only if you have engines/rcs. In that case, please, post the logs.

I was in career mode, and hadn't opened the R+D screen in a while, and hadn't realized that there were tech node bits I needed to purchase in my already researched tree, despite the fact that I had seen the tech tree diagram in the cover page. I was very tired last night when I reported this issue, and you'd think by now, I'd know to not make help requests when I'm exhausted. everything seems to be working now, though I haven't learned how to properly control everything yet like in the videos on the first page, my craft are way more prone to crashing.  I think that's just a matter of me needing to play around with it some more. Thanks for your time, sorry I'm an idiot.

[nanokarlo]

Trying to get control as in this video Hover Vehicle but without success 2 Hover Vehicle

[allista]

11 hours ago, nanokarlo said:

Trying to get control as in this video Hover Vehicle but without success 2 Hover Vehicle

TCA is not designed for this. Many-engines-in-all-directions crafts are rarely practical (especially in this game) and are seldom used. For this to work you need different kind of control system than we have in KSP: engines should be treated differently depending on their current orientation with respect to gravity; and correspondingly, they should respond to different controls -- hovering and translation. It is possible to do, but I really don't see the need for it in KSP.

[johnsonwax]

I'm having trouble doing something that I *think* should be simple. I'm trying to land a USI Karibou rover with a pair of VTOL engines. TCA works great until periapsis falls below 0, and then it (usually) turns on 'Level' mode and will not turn off no matter what. Sometimes the other control options turn on below peri 0 and Level stays off and I can try to land, but somewhere along the way it'll always turn itself on. I've played with the engine groups and made sure the Level button was disabled there, but nothing works. If there were a way to keep the on-planet autopilots disabled, that'd be fine too. All I need is to balance the engines while fuel drains.

[allista]

4 hours ago, johnsonwax said:

I'm having trouble doing something that I *think* should be simple. I'm trying to land a USI Karibou rover with a pair of VTOL engines. TCA works great until periapsis falls below 0, and then it (usually) turns on 'Level' mode and will not turn off no matter what. Sometimes the other control options turn on below peri 0 and Level stays off and I can try to land, but somewhere along the way it'll always turn itself on. I've played with the engine groups and made sure the Level button was disabled there, but nothing works. If there were a way to keep the on-planet autopilots disabled, that'd be fine too. All I need is to balance the engines while fuel drains.

Thanks for the report. The culprit is probably the "Flight Stabilizer" in "advanced" pane. This autopilot kicks in when ship's attitude is not controlled by any other autopilot, SAS or a user. So you need to disable it or enable SAS.

To prevent this from happening without the need to disable it I will need to think of an additional boundary condition for its trigger; right now it simply detects uncontrollable rotation.

[johnsonwax]

Ah, now I see it. Let me play with those settings.

[Edit]

That seems to work perfectly, thank you. Might want to add that as a super-simple example for how to use TCA. The ability to stabilize a VTOL rover even while having MechJeb piloting is super-handy and I would think quite common given a number of VTOL part packs (Malamute, Karibou, KPBS, etc.) Most likely would be people's first use case for TCA.

Edited August 2, 2016 by johnsonwax

[borisperrons]

Hello everybody.

 

So, I have incurred in the same bug that other people found, I have only the button for the manual. I am playing in sandbox, installed it with CKAN, manually, modified the .user file, etc. etc. No joy.

I will really appreciate any help. I want my ion land speeder without rapid unplanned explodifications : (

[Dzarin]

Hey,

is it just me, or the gimbal engines don't work with this version? 

My hover craft that i just made is flying nicely, but when i add some gimbaled engines and launch, then i just get black screen (everything else running), i can go back to hangar, but when i go anywhere else, its just black screen and i must restart. Ocassionally when the black screen appears the error window pops up too.

Its happening only with gimballed engines, tried them all.

 

[Jacke]

On 2016-07-29 at 1:02 PM, nanokarlo said:

Trying to get control as in this video Hover Vehicle but without success 2 Hover Vehicle

As @allista has indicated, that isn't what TCA is trying to do.  That's not a flying craft try to hover.  That's a weapon with multiple sub-munitions that on its terminal trajectory has to deploy to intercept and destroy multiple targets.  It has thrusters on multiple sides to quickly adjust its trajectory in an intercept phase covering a few seconds.  The test versions have an extra lift engine to simulate that phase out of contact of the ground.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Jacke

[allista]

15 hours ago, Dzarin said:

Hey,

is it just me, or the gimbal engines don't work with this version? 

My hover craft that i just made is flying nicely, but when i add some gimbaled engines and launch, then i just get black screen (everything else running), i can go back to hangar, but when i go anywhere else, its just black screen and i must restart. Ocassionally when the black screen appears the error window pops up too.

Its happening only with gimballed engines, tried them all.

 

Thank you for the report.

Nothing has changed for gimballed engines in the last version, so I'm not sure the TCA is at fault here; but you can post the logs after that black screen happens and I'll see through it to be certain.

On 8/5/2016 at 4:01 PM, borisperrons said:

Hello everybody.

 

So, I have incurred in the same bug that other people found, I have only the button for the manual. I am playing in sandbox, installed it with CKAN, manually, modified the .user file, etc. etc. No joy.

I will really appreciate any help. I want my ion land speeder without rapid unplanned explodifications : (

Sorry for the delay.

You probably have an old ModuleManager (or none MM at all?). At least that's what was the cause the last time someone had this problem.

Edited August 10, 2016 by allista

[borisperrons]

3 hours ago, allista said:

Sorry for the delay.

You probably have an old ModuleManager (or none MM at all?). At least that's what was the cause the last time someone had this problem.

MM 2.6.25 installed... I'll try on a new clear install ASAP and I'll get back with news.

[allista]

46 minutes ago, borisperrons said:

MM 2.6.25 installed... I'll try on a new clear install ASAP and I'll get back with news.

Which is the last one, as I recall. Strange...

Could you also post the log?

[allista]

On 7/12/2016 at 11:59 AM, Alex415 said:

Hi guys. I have Realism Overhaul + Real Solar System mods installed in my KSP, and when I trying to enable TCA in any craft (which worked before the upgrade) I have "Low Control Authority" message, so TCA can't control vessel attitude. Do you know why? And again, in TCA 3.1 + KSP 1.1.2 it worked perfectly.

On 7/20/2016 at 11:43 PM, Rus_1952 said:

Can i get previous version of this mod somehow? It seems current does not work with RSS+RO. I have same "no authority" issue like the guy above. Also i noticed intresting thing: when i enabeling TCA, engine's action menu shows me negative throttle and engine does not work.

The culprit of this "bug" is this hack in the SolverEngines plugin which is used by RO. I've created an issue on their tracker, so maybe they'll fix it someday.

Meanwhile I've added a workaround for it to TCA; it will be included into the nearest update.

[Beetlecat]

Just doing some quick noodling around the KSC with a twin-engined VTOL and was wondering-- is there a way to trick TCA into thinking that structure roofs are valid landing targets?

[allista]

2 hours ago, Beetlecat said:

Just doing some quick noodling around the KSC with a twin-engined VTOL and was wondering-- is there a way to trick TCA into thinking that structure roofs are valid landing targets?

Well... yes and no:

From the Unity's point of view, although the ground and the buildings are different kinds of objects, they share the same Layer -- "Local Scenery". This means that a raycast cannot discriminate them. The algorithm that decides where to land does a series of raycasts and calculates local curvature of the surface patches around the ship. So for that algorithm buildings are just peculiar hills of strange shape. Thus, in principle, TCA can auto-land on a roof, but for that the roof should be flat and wide enough, and located  below the ship, so that the first check is positive; because if the landing algorithm starts to search, the probability that the raycasts lay on "that roof over there" in the right manner is too low. Besides, the lander tries to land on the nearest patch that is flat enough, not on the flattest one.

To put it another way: autolander made to be safe and robust; but landing on a building is not safe and requires a skilled pilot instead of a stupid machine 

To demonstrate my point:

 

[Beetlecat]

9 hours ago, allista said:

Well... yes and no:

...

To put it another way: autolander made to be safe and robust; but landing on a building is not safe and requires a skilled pilot instead of a stupid machine 

That's a great demonstration, and I guess I got *pretty close* to achieving it.  My piloting skills, or the craft in question may not have been well-balanced enough to allow me to nudge the little vehicle over the spot I was aiming for (the helipad on the admin building). I think I was perceiving some hyper over-reaction by the TCA system as I got closer and closer to the landing. I know there's no wind to compensate for, so it was odd to feel like it would overcompensate opposite my inputs.

It also didn't seem to want to allow me to deploy landing gear when I was a meter or so above the platform, but maybe I just need to override that temporarily.

Are those velocity lines in a debug feature? The direction and speed indicator looks phenomenal!

[allista]

43 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

That's a great demonstration, and I guess I got *pretty close* to achieving it.  My piloting skills, or the craft in question may not have been well-balanced enough to allow me to nudge the little vehicle over the spot I was aiming for (the helipad on the admin building). I think I was perceiving some hyper over-reaction by the TCA system as I got closer and closer to the landing. I know there's no wind to compensate for, so it was odd to feel like it would overcompensate opposite my inputs.

It also didn't seem to want to allow me to deploy landing gear when I was a meter or so above the platform, but maybe I just need to override that temporarily.

Are those velocity lines in a debug feature? The direction and speed indicator looks phenomenal!

Yea, that's just the "debug lines" I mention from time to time. TCA modules are full of them when the code is compiled in Debug mode; I enable them from time to time to better understand how algorithms really work. And you haven't seen the Radar's raycast visualization yet; that's a real laser show! 

As for the wind, that's strange. I mean, if you're using the VTOL Control mode, even jet-based VTOLs become as smooth and responsive as you see in this video; I hardly touched the keyboard while I was capturing it.

The landing gear is controlled by VTOL Assist: it deploys gear when a ship goes down, 5 seconds from the surface; so if you're hovering or ascending, the gear is retracted. The Assist may be disabled altogether; alternatively, you may just forbid TCA to ever touch gear control. Both switches are in "advanced" pane.

[wgering]

@allista Firstly, thanks for this awesome mod. It makes my shuttle flights so much easier than when I had to manually babysit the thrust limiter.

 

I do have one relatively minor quibble: is it possible to change the status colors of the various buttons/toggles? The default yellow off/green on that many of them use is very difficult for me (and I suspect other people who are red/green colorblind) to distinguish between. It's particularly annoying not being able to tell at a glance what T-SAS is set to, which has led to a few rapid unplanned disassemblies...

Thanks for your feedback!