Female Kerbals

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

Here we go, a discussion I hope will go smoothly. I state my point of Female Kerbals being "stupid", and that they shouldn't be the main stated feature (other than aero). For all we know, it will be aerodynamics that could be god-awful, and a different sprite. I think that they should of not had the Female Kerbal be the "Mystery Feature", when instead it could be for something that could be useful. Like editor changes, or planetary additions. Or engine updates

It also annoys me to bits that people are turning this into a sexism issue. Who cares? The fact that it may be a bit more "bringing" to little girls?

Lets discuss as civilized people

Source: https://twitter.com/Maxmaps/status/558778656579805184

Edited January 24, 2015 by TheCanadianVendingMachine

[Robotengineer]

I can understand the position of people who are struggling with RAM limits. I would also like to say that the assets of a female Kerbals will likely not increase the RAM enough to be a problem.

[AbhChallenger]

You know. It is really sad how the twitter announcement of a female Kerbalnaut has resulted in such obvious misogyny.

I would like to ask of those who think this is some sort of politically correct move. Do you HONESTLY think Squad would cave to such pressure? Do you honestly believe they sat around the table and said "Gosh we better do this now before people compare Squad to Ubisoft" No. They do it the same reason they do any feature in KSP. Because it is fun to do.

There are valid concerns. "How much time was devoted to this?" or "Will this bump any features off 0.91?" However, I saw little of that in the other topic.

[klgraham1013]

I don't see any problem with the art team taking some time to add the other gender to the game. They could even go a step further and add various faces so there's not just male clones and female clones.

#cloneclub

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Do the various face packs for Texture Replacer actually take up that much memory?

[tater]

What brings more outside press useful for sales?

Any news to us is preaching to the choir. People here read the dev notes like bankers parse the Fed chairman. Anyone making too much of this… is making too much of this.

[klgraham1013]

If this has anything to do with press or sales, then Squad are doing it for the wrong reasons.

[Louella]

where was this mentioned ?

[Norpo]

I'm gonna take a guess here. This is probably what happened at SQUAD HQ.

-programmers "Okay, we're making aerodynamics, in-situ resources..."

-art team "What about us? Those don't require art assets, do they?"

-HarvestR: "Okay, work on female kerbals, it's been in the "upcoming features list" for a while, and this seems like a good chance and I can't think of anything else."

tl;dr programmers were busy art team wasn't, clouds etc. might take more on the programming end

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

where was this mentioned ?

https://twitter.com/Maxmaps/status/558778656579805184

[klgraham1013]

A) It's just the decent thing to do. It brings more life and believability to the Kerbal universe.

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

I'm gonna take a guess here. This is probably what happened at SQUAD HQ.

-programmers "Okay, we're making aerodynamics, in-situ resources..."

-art team "What about us? Those don't require art assets, do they?"

-HarvestR: "Okay, work on female kerbals, it's been in the "upcoming features list" for a while, and this seems like a good chance and I can't think of anything else."

tl;dr programmers were busy art team wasn't, clouds etc. might take more on the programming end

As I said, I'm not saying that this is bad, but announcing and bringing it HYPE. For a female kerbal sprite. That's it.

[tater]

If this has anything to do with press or sales, then Squad are doing it for the wrong reasons.

Nonsense. Sales is ultimately the only reason that matters. If they cannot have this function as a business, then there are no updates, no fixes, no new content. This is their job. They have families, bills to pay.

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Note that they always wanted female kerbals, so "this" in this case is calling it a "secret feature," hype, watching us guess… all that is SALES, the work was already done for whatever reason.

[Robotengineer]

I'm gonna take a guess here. This is probably what happened at SQUAD HQ.

-programmers "Okay, we're making aerodynamics, in-situ resources..."

-art team "What about us? Those don't require art assets, do they?"

-HarvestR: "Okay, work on female kerbals, it's been in the "upcoming features list" for a while, and this seems like a good chance and I can't think of anything else."

tl;dr programmers were busy art team wasn't, clouds etc. might take more on the programming end

Clouds cost too much RAM, Valentinian Kerbal textures will take much less RAM, has been on the list for a while, is good for getting media attention, and might help get girls interested in space/rocket science.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Robotengineer
Grammar.

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

Nonsense. Sales is ultimately the only reason that matters. If they cannot have this function as a business, then there are no updates, no fixes, no new content. This is their job. They have families, bills to pay.

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Note that they always wanted female kerbals, so "this" in this case is calling it a "secret feature," hype, watching us guess… all that is SALES, the work was already done for whatever reason.

I'm fairly sure people would want clouds more, and would bring more hype. And ultimately more sales due to better screenshots

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Clouds cost too much RAM, Valentinian Kerbal textures will take much less RAM, has been on the list for a while, is good for getting media attention, and might help get girls interested in space/rocket science.

Thing is about girls is that they are social beings.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Claw

[Parkaboy]

Let me try to be didatic instead of heated here.

When you say "Who cares about sexism" [i'm paraphrasing], I hear something like: "Who cares about how half of the human race was belittled, treated as personal property and generally violented, in many ways, during most of the entire history of the world? Who cares if we're still far from reaching equality, despite the fact that the laws of the civilized world make it mandatory? Who cares if girls have issues with their self image because media treats their bodies as products?"

Matters of representation are really important. REALLY. I can't stress this enough. LEGO had a real setback when it started making a line of toys "for girls" that was mostly pink and had little anorexic figurines. They kind of recovered by making a line of female scientists. It's weird that something that simple should matter, but it does. Boys have toys that teach them that they can be soldiers, super-heroes, scientists and astronauts. Girls have toys that teach them to be moms or supermodels.

Changing this perception isn't something easy, so any small step in the right direction should be appreciated. Even if it's just the addition of a new bunch of polygons to a video game. It's important. It will make news. People areound the world will care. Sure, if you want to be jaded, you can say it's a marketing coup, that Squad only wants the media attention, that they don't care about adding real value to the gameplay. I'd argue against that at least partially, since they're also giving the community the aerodynamics they so hard cried about, but I digress.

The point here is that, while it might not add value to the game as you perceive it, the value that it adds to the game from a girl's perspective might be immesurable.

For me, this means a lot. Because despite the fact that I'm a 32 year old man from Brazil, I do like women and I'm rooting for them. There are many women that I love, and I like to see the world become a better place for them, and I truly believe this might help a little.

[AbhChallenger]

Clouds are something that would work better after Unity 5. (Which hopefully will end the 64 bit issues as well)

[RoverDude]

Personally, I think it is a great move by Squad. One of the side things me and some of my engineers do is volunteer to work for charities around STEM education for kids. And given KSP's role as an educational tool, showing a positive role model for young girls who otherwise might not be as interested in STEM, and having gender inclusion is freaking awesome.

[Louella]

I don't really get why people seem to be getting so wound up about this.

[tater]

I'm fairly sure people would want clouds more, and would bring more hype. And ultimately more sales due to better screenshots

"Hype" applies to US. We already bought the game. We don't matter from a business perspective unless there is a chance of further sales. I'd already buy KSP 2 sight unseen, even as an alpha kickstarter, so again, hype doesn't matter.

I don't really get why people seem to be getting so wound up about this.

Yep. It is my understanding they always wanted girl kerbals just because. Funny anyone could possibly get negatively worked up about this.

Edited January 24, 2015 by tater

[Robotengineer]

I'm fairly sure people would want clouds more, and would bring more hype. And ultimately more sales due to better screenshots

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Thing is about girls is that they are social beings. You can see this in schools around the first world. Where they are judging each-other constantly. Biologicaly they want to be the best mate for a male

That is quite sexist. You probably shouldn't generalize 50% of the population into 1 type.

[klgraham1013]

Nonsense. Sales is ultimately the only reason that matters. If they cannot have this function as a business, then there are no updates, no fixes, no new content. This is their job. They have families, bills to pay.

- - - Updated - - -

Note that they always wanted female kerbals, so "this" in this case is calling it a "secret feature," hype, watching us guess… all that is SALES, the work was already done for whatever reason.

I'm pretty pessimistic about businesses, but every now and then, there are businesses that do things for reasons other than profit.

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

Let me try to be didatic instead of heated here.

When you say "Who cares about sexism" [i'm paraphrasing], I hear something like: "Who cares about how half of the human race was belittled, treated as personal property and generally violented, in many ways, during most of the entire history of the world? Who cares if we're still far from reaching equality, despite the fact that the laws of the civilized world make it mandatory? Who cares if girls have issues with their self image because media treats their bodies as products?"

Matters of representation are really important. REALLY. I can't stress this enough. LEGO had a real setback when it started making a line of toys "for girls" that was mostly pink and had little anorexic figurines. They kind of recovered by making a line of female scientists. It's weird that something that simple should matter, but it does. Boys have toys that teach them that they can be soldiers, super-heroes, scientists and astronauts. Girls have toys that teach them to be moms or supermodels.

Changing this perception isn't something easy, so any small step in the right direction should be appreciated. Even if it's just the addition of a new bunch of polygons to a video game. It's important. It will make news. People areound the world will care. Sure, if you want to be jaded, you can say it's a marketing coup, that Squad only wants the media attention, that they don't care about adding real value to the gameplay. I'd argue against that at least partially, since they're also giving the community the aerodynamics they so hard cried about, but I digress.

The point here is that, while it might not add value to the game as you perceive it, the value that it adds to the game from a girl's perspective might be immesurable.

For me, this means a lot. Because despite the fact that I'm a 32 year old man from Brazil, I do like women and I'm rooting for them. There are many women that I love, and I like to see the world become a better place for them, and I truly believe this might help a little.

Oh God forbid I mean any harm to women, and their past. I don't want to have inequality in the world, to the point where I would kill oppressors to get people better lives. But I think that MAKING PEOPLE GUESS WHAT IT IS, instead of announcing it is the issue. The way they market it makes it seem like there will be nothing else. Personally, I would like to have the developers talk openly about features like this, and put pictures up for people to critique. I would rather open development rather than closed, "hype" inducing guessing games.

[razark]

This is a really damn stupid idea. Possibly the worst one I've seen from Squad in a long time.

I've already got one "Val" annoying me in a space program! Couldn't it have been "Sally"?

[klgraham1013]

That is quite sexist. You probably shouldn't generalize 50% of the population into 1 type.

It's a harsh representation of evolutionary psychology, and as anyone who's actually studied the subject should know, things are not so black and white.

[Master Tao]

Let's keep discussion of biology to The Science Labs. If you post there, stick to arguing facts and science, not about each other.