[0.90] Lazor System v35 (Dec 17)

[Volt]

Indeed, missiles that know how to work in space and are capable of hitting other spacecraft would be damn cool.

[Romfarer]

1) If I switch camera to missile - will it lose guidance?

camera tracking requires a target and doing this will currently make the missile try to target itself. I could change the control of the missile to lock on and follow the target at activation time. But it would be difficult to disengage the target after that =/

2) Can you build some heavy stuff like SCUDs or space-to-space torpedos?

I created the missiles as an example. It should be relatively easy for other modders to create that. You just have to paste the code from the lazor missile on, change the mass and thrust and you are good to go.

Indeed, missiles that know how to work in space and are capable of hitting other spacecraft would be damn cool.

I never thested the lazor missile in space, the missile will fly but i have no idea how well it will hit, let me know how that works out for you ;-)

[KleptoKat]

Mind = Blown.

[Volt]

It behaves very badly in space because the attitude control doesn't seem to do much; it just ends up doing backflips. It was fun watching my missile hurtle to Kerbin and anticlimactically go *poof* but it would have been more awesome if it made contact with its target! I wonder if anyone will work out a way to do this.

[KAPbl4]

camera tracking requires a target and doing this will currently make the missile try to target itself. I could change the control of the missile to lock on and follow the target at activation time. But it would be difficult to disengage the target after that =/

I hope to see it in the next version. ) This switch - is only way to bypass "2 km limit", I think

I created the missiles as an example. It should be relatively easy for other modders to create that. You just have to paste the code from the lazor missile on, change the mass and thrust and you are good to go.

OK, I'll try to create something from the old Wasp Missile.

[Volt]

Ah! Actually! That might be what happened. I switched to the missile as it flew, but I thought it had already missed by the time I switched. I'll have to do some further tests tomorrow evening.

I've noticed the lazor guided missile actually doesn't have a blast radius sometimes. I landed a missile literally a few kerbal-lengths from a plane and it didn't blow it up.

[Romfarer]

It behaves very badly in space because the attitude control doesn't seem to do much; it just ends up doing backflips. It was fun watching my missile hurtle to Kerbin and anticlimactically go *poof* but it would have been more awesome if it made contact with its target! I wonder if anyone will work out a way to do this.

I wonder how irl missiles would do if shot from an orbiting space craft going 2000ms. Right now the targeting system can only reliably hit stationary targets while fired from crafts that fly at reasonable speeds. It will take some modifications to make the missiles hit moving targets, but it may still be extremely difficult to make them hit orbiting vessels.

I hope to see it in the next version. ) This switch - is only way to bypass "2 km limit", I think

Lazor System increases the 2,5km viewing distance of ksp to 95km and all missiles fired should work normally within this range.

I've noticed the lazor guided missile actually doesn't have a blast radius sometimes. I landed a missile literally a few kerbal-lengths from a plane and it didn't blow it up.

The missiles have a kinetic warhead which will apply 1000 force at its center with linearly decreasing effect up to a range of 30 meter. It is entirely possible that the vessel you were aiming at actually held together, i.e. its mass was too great for the blast to propel and it's parts held together. That said i have experienced some unexpected results too.

[sal_vager]

I have actually thought about missiles in space, just trusting towards your target might not be enough, as it'll have moved in it's orbit and the missile will have to correct it's path constantly.

Frontier Elite II had missiles that did this, and it simulated newtonian physics, the result was that missiles would often circle the target fruitlessly until they self destructed, they had to be made very very fast to compensate for being dumb as rocks.

I would assume any real world space missile would have to be capable of basic orbital maneuvers, it's goal would not be to fly straight at the target, but to rendezvous as fast as possible, relying on kinetic impact from the missiles velocity and mass to cause damage.

Explosives, and even nukes, are not effective in space as they rely too much on an atmosphere to transfer the force of the detonation, the best you mught do would be a shrapnel bomb or even have a one-shot cannon in the missiles nose, to provide that last high velocity kinetic blast to the target.

[KAO]

can't wait until space capable missiles are working. I will finally be able to get rid of the derelict space station floating around the Mun

[Volt]

I was just thinking that a flak-type bomb would probably be most appropriate, but you'd still need to get within very close range. It might just not be plausible to ask for a working space missile. My missiles tend to have enough trouble accurately hitting targets on the ground!

[Romfarer]

In order to make the missiles hit a moving/flying target it needs to be aiming at where the target is going to be. This can be acheived with the proportional navigation algorithm. The control system i have implemented is a gross approximation of that method.

So i had to see for myself how the missiles were behaving in space, i have only tested this below 10km while making it. Good news, when i fired the first missile i instantly knew, "this will work". And i also have a pretty good idea about what the problem is: My implementation uses the velocity of the missile to approximate the proportional term in the navigation algorithm. On the ground this works fine cause i can use the surface velocity vector. In orbit however this vector is changed to the orbit velocity vector. The change happens at approx 40km. I really need to know how to set the correct velocity vector. And just hardcoding it to 40km will probably not work on the mun.

[togfox]

If I can be annoying for a moment - I'm interested in the 'flags' that I've seen in screenshots. I've downloaded the whole zip with the intention of removing all the extra complex but awesome stuff I'm not interested in. I see by the folder structure what I want to do is not going to be obvious.

Short story: Will I be able to get 'flags' on my map view without having a cluttered interface or oodles of plugins to install? There will obviously be some of that - but the screenshots of lasers and targeting and all sorts of things frighten my poor peace loving kerbals. Thx.

[Romfarer]

If I can be annoying for a moment - I'm interested in the 'flags' that I've seen in screenshots. I've downloaded the whole zip with the intention of removing all the extra complex but awesome stuff I'm not interested in. I see by the folder structure what I want to do is not going to be obvious.

Lazor system is very configurable, and if you dont want a subsystem installed, dont install it. (this is done in-game btw and has nothing to do with plugins) If you only want the lazor system, just install the stuff in the Romfarer_LazorSystem folder. The other one is for the missiles and bombs.

Short story: Will I be able to get 'flags' on my map view without having a cluttered interface or oodles of plugins to install? There will obviously be some of that - but the screenshots of lasers and targeting and all sorts of things frighten my poor peace loving kerbals. Thx.

This is the Kerbal Positioning System and it comes with all configurations of lazor system. When you first install the system it comes with some pre-made locations. So all you have to do to see the example flags is hit the red lazor system button, and go to map view. To add locations go to Subsystems -> KPS. To edit and delete locations go to the Targets tab.

[Volt]

Sounds like you're on top of hitting moving targets, then! Would the lazor system allow you to leave an aircraft flying through the air properly trimmed while you launch a SAM at it from the ground with the missile lead, maybe? Usually if you use [] I believe it would just delete the other craft. Further testing required!

On launching from a stationary to other stationary, it seems to work pretty accurately. Moreso if you're aiming the missile roughly at the target and at a sensible angle - perhaps the DR hinge and rotatron are good choices.

[Romfarer]

Sounds like you're on top of hitting moving targets, then! Would the lazor system allow you to leave an aircraft flying through the air properly trimmed while you launch a SAM at it from the ground with the missile lead, maybe? Usually if you use [] I believe it would just delete the other craft. Further testing required!

I have tried this and it seems to delete the craft when i swap to another vessel. However if you for example use lazor guided flight and go on eva, the craft is not deleted, it continues to fly with lazor guided flight enabled and an active lazor system which you can control while on eva. This is a feature i have implemented. There was a bug with it in the version i uploaded first but i corrected the issue and uploaded that last night. By design, eva's will remember which lazor system vessel they belong to and as long as they are within 90km of that vessel, it's lazor system will be available.

On launching from a stationary to other stationary, it seems to work pretty accurately. Moreso if you're aiming the missile roughly at the target and at a sensible angle - perhaps the DR hinge and rotatron are good choices.

The longer travel time the missiles have the more accurately it will hit. All depending on angle. But if i take off in a plane and shoot at the SPH while facing in the other direction and SPH is like 2km away, the missiles will turn around and hit the target The DR stuff is great for making missile lunchers. I also use that in my spider ship lifter that operates with tractor beams.

You can make all sorts of things with tractor beams. Here is a kerbal accelerator

If you shoot tractor beams at your own vessel it is even possilbe to make parts spin around, to create sort of a drive wheel which in turn can create lift.

[Volt]

Damn, shame about the ships being deleted. That seems like one of the game-killing limitations of the in-atmosphere system at the moment. I like the spider ship, though, and the kerbal accelerator. Shame I suck at ship design!

Edit: Might be best to take a look at the splash/direct damage code on the missiles. I've been hitting things square-on or feet away from them and nothing happens. Suggest making the force even higher?

Edited September 15, 2012 by Volt

[Oicani]

I have already implemented this and it is coming in the next version.

Anything else you would like?

Dynamically adjusting laser strength if you pick stuff up or if your ship suddenly has its cog changed would be p cool, too. I tried to make a debris lifter using this and the robotics pack, and when i picked the debris up the lasers couldn't keep up with it. Is it because the lasers have their parameters changed as a whole instead of individually?

Also - potential bug or me not knowing how to use the plugin: when I set the tractor beams' mode to Hover, no matter what altitude i tell it to stay at, it always keeps pushing me up until they have no more range. Is there something I'm missing?

[Romfarer]

Dynamically adjusting laser strength if you pick stuff up or if your ship suddenly has its cog changed would be p cool, too. I tried to make a debris lifter using this and the robotics pack, and when i picked the debris up the lasers couldn't keep up with it. Is it because the lasers have their parameters changed as a whole instead of individually?

I use some approximations to lighthen the load on the physics engine and help with stability but that is only for the hover mode. I'm not sure what you mean by "the lasers couldn't keep up with it. Please explain in more detail.

Also - potential bug or me not knowing how to use the plugin: when I set the tractor beams' mode to Hover, no matter what altitude i tell it to stay at, it always keeps pushing me up until they have no more range. Is there something I'm missing?

This just might be a bug in the lazor system, again i have to ask for more information. If you could attatch the craft file and give me a more thorough explanation it would be most helpful.

[Oicani]

I'll get you the vessel files shortly.

By not keeping up, I mean this: I have a hover ship with a claw. Imagine a scorpion's tail, but in the end of it, four claws so I can pick debris up. When I do, the weight of the debris makes my ship tilt towards it. What I'd like to see is the laser system to balance strength based on where there's more weight.

[Oicani]

Well, I'm not getting this to launch (lags immensely) right now but it might work on your PC. This is the debris grabber I was talking about. http://filesmelt.com/dl/DebriCollector.craft

[togfox]

So I'm trying to get the GPS thingy to work. I've got five parts and a wall of text on the OP.

This is the Kerbal Positioning System and it comes with all configurations of lazor system. When you first install the system it comes with some pre-made locations. So all you have to do to see the example flags is hit the red lazor system button, and go to map view. To add locations go to Subsystems -> KPS. To edit and delete locations go to the Targets tab.

What bits do I need to get the KPS to work? Do I need the lazor and Lazor system? I'm not sure how to take the relevant bits from the OP and apply just the info I need. Thx.

Edit: I just spammed all the parts and have the KGS working. Now to work out what I don't need ...

Edited September 16, 2012 by togfox

[Matzenino]

Thanks for the suggestion i will put this on my to-do list.

The best way to stabilize the vessel in hover mode is to use Lazor Guided Flight -> Retrograde.

Could you show me where to find the retrograde feature?

Otherwise it appears that only my front pair of tractor beams is working while the other wont take off.

This makes it impossible for my freight ships to take off.

EDIT:

It appears that the Hovermode ignores the fact that the vessel is a spaceplane and always tries to let it take off in an 90 degrees angle.

Is it possible to let it "hover" in the normal fashion?

Edited September 16, 2012 by Matzenino

[togfox]

So I took a look at the GPS system for this mod and thought I'd post here the KGSS names that have been nominated by the community so far.

You can safely replace the contents in the kgs.txt file in

\Program Files\KSP_Win\PluginData\romfarer

folder. Of course, you can add your own or remove the one's I have below or just ignore this post completely.

Kerbin#62.6437630408871#-117.351140052713#Romfarer Bay

Kerbin#20.6616392056821#-146.333447448622#KSC 2

Kerbin#1#-74#Booster Bay

Kerbin#5#62#Shoeshore Archipelago

Kerbin#62.680808#45.74196#Mount Vildan

Kerbin#-11.416667#169.911111#Borgnine Beach

Kerbin#50.557778#175.237222#Lac-en-Vert

Kerbin#30.404167#43.09#Nebuchadnezzar Plateau/The Humbug Pinnacle

Kerbin#71.582#75.595#Tear Duct Glacier

Kerbin#5.886#-61.973#Spaniel

Kerbin#0.211#74.691#Touchdown valley

Kerbin#-42.053#-117.742#South Island

Kerbin#0.999#-79.198#Mt. Kurt

Kerbin#5#-79.198#Harvester Mountains

Kerbin#41.532#84.183#Valley of Death

Kerbin#1.959#109.019#Aerotilt Isle

Kerbin#-68.511#-32.18#Pelóri mountains

Kerbin#10.73#-116.98#Brain Pit Valley

Kerbin#30.136#-43.272#Fox's Mesa

Kerbin#-1.281#-96.504#Kerbolius Gulf

Kerbin#-61.241#-35.43#B.B. Sea

Kerbin#0.654#-78.371#Red Rocket Valley

Kerbin#0.527#-33.487#Malbert's Peak

[Romfarer]

Well, I'm not getting this to launch (lags immensely) right now but it might work on your PC. This is the debris grabber I was talking about. http://filesmelt.com/dl/DebriCollector.craft

It doesn't lag too much on my rig. But i wasn't able to take off with it. This is because the long claw on top moves the com of the craft too far up which results in it flipping over the moment you activate the tractor beam. It will take some serious stabilizing to keep the claw facing upwards in hover mode. I'm going to look into making a stabilizing system for the tractor beams though. In the mean time i'd suggest building the vessel in the VAB so you get better symmetry to it, get access to the retrograde rocket stabilizer and also put the claw under the vessel, on the z axis of com.

What bits do I need to get the KPS to work? Do I need the lazor and Lazor system? I'm not sure how to take the relevant bits from the OP and apply just the info I need. Thx.

So I took a look at the GPS system for this mod and thought I'd post here the KGSS names that have been nominated by the community so far.

As you probably have figured out already, KPS only requires the lazor system module with a lazor on top to work.

Nice list of locations btw. If you don't mind i'll add this to the default list that comes with lazor system.

Could you show me where to find the retrograde feature?

It appears that the Hovermode ignores the fact that the vessel is a spaceplane and always tries to let it take off in an 90 degrees angle.

Is it possible to let it "hover" in the normal fashion?

The retrograde function is available for craft assambled in the VAB.

Ok i did some testing and figured out what is happening. You are correct, there is a bug with hover mode, and probably tractor beams in general when placed on space planes that have the command pod facing towards the horizon. I suppose it has something to do with what is considered the "up" axis for the vessel.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Romfarer

[togfox]

> Nice list of locations btw. If you don't mind i'll add this to the default list that comes with lazor system.

Be my guest. That data belongs to the community. Ill do mun and minmus in case anyone wants it.