Permanent "welding" vs. dynamic docks for orbital assembly

[Himynameisjake]

I didn't see this anywhere, though I would be remiss if I didn't admit I didn't look too hard.

I think it would be amazing to have a part not wholly unlike the docking ports that had an additional step that allowed parts to be "welded" together for pieces the player decided should be permanently joined. This is not top say that two parts would become one, but that they would be attached with the physics properties of two parts attached in the VAB/SPH.

The general idea would be that the two parts to be combined each have a "weld port" attached, and once in orbit, they would be docked in the normal fashion. Once successfully docked, the player would have a right-click option to "weld" the parts together. This joint then becomes a solid state, without the flex often seen in traditionally docked components.

The benefit to this addition would be for more realistic assembly of components and decreased flex in orbital construction.

The costs of this addition would include: designing, programming, and testing a new part; a potential physics hazard and questionable ability of the game to modify the save file on a permanent basis to make the two parts one (I'm not sure how the game handles docked parts currently); and the risk of regret in design/assembly for the player. One way to avoid at least some of the risk is top make the part separate from the current docking port so there is no accidental welding. Any weld would be intentional.

A prime example of this in real space flight would be the union of Destiny lab to the S0 truss segment on the ISS:

Edited February 12, 2015 by Himynameisjake

[klgraham1013]

Anyone watching Manley's Interstellar quest knows how useful this would be. I do a lot of orbital construction and would appreciate a way of connecting two parts with out the instability of docking ports.

[Wabbit]

Maybe more stable male/female docking ports that work like plugs. I'm tired of wobbly tug trains. But, it is a lot of fun to do it with KAS.

[Robotengineer]

That would be a nice addition, perhaps a right click menu for joining to parts by their closest nodes? Make it an EVA activity, that would be even cooler.

[Technical Ben]

Would be great for really large ships.

[Wabbit]

The ship is wobbling!

It's just dancing because we are going to Eve!

It looks like it's gonna snap...

Just find a way to weld or strut it!

Struts? Sissy strings!

But there's no way to... God didn't install KAS!

Well then tell Squad to make it stock!

Yep

[Himynameisjake]

That would be a nice addition, perhaps a right click menu for joining to parts by their closest nodes? Make it an EVA activity, that would be even cooler.

Eva action would be even more realistic, love it!

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Maybe more stable male/female docking ports that work like plugs. I'm tired of wobbly tug trains. But, it is a lot of fun to do it with KAS.

I'd love a KAS style system, but that's asking for A LOT of parts and programming, this would be a start that I think could even make the 1.0 release with 2-6 parts

[Daze]

A sort of welding docking port would be great, or at least fixed strut-base to apply in SPH/VAB that can be linked together in EVA

[MartGonzo]

Definitely agree that this would be a great addition, Daze's idea too about the strut bases that can be connected during EVA.

These things are certainly possible as there's mods that do this, I know the welding mod only works in the VAB but surely it shouldn't be too difficult to implement this during EVA too.

The potential FPS improvement during space station docking is huge

[Himynameisjake]

Long term, I love the idea of strutting in eva, but I was thinking this was simple enough to make the 1.0 release. Strut points would be amazing and the realism would be phenomenal.

[JimmyAgent007]

I remember suggesting something like this at some point a long time ago and it was on the list of things not to suggest because it involved reducing part counts or whatever. that being said, i really like the idea and now that 1.0 is on the way we should revisit a bunch of stuff on that list. Id prefer a self welding docking port to make it secure, EVA to activate it, then shrouds the ports. If you want to disassemble then its another EVA trip and back to normal.

[Van Disaster]

A sort of welding docking port would be great, or at least fixed strut-base to apply in SPH/VAB that can be linked together in EVA

This is called ActiveStruts ( and there's the old Quantum Struts which is vaguely similar ) if you want to try it out. Pretty useful thing that'd be a nice addition to stock.

However struts are adding parts, and the idea was to reduce them I think... spawning subassemblies ala EPL mod and having a kerbal go out and weld joins together would be ideal. Maybe a new docking port type - so you can attach the parts - that eats itself & converts into an actual hard join. I think I'll go suggest that in the mod suggestions actually...

[klgraham1013]

I think some are making this more complicated than it needs to be. Just add a single part to appropriate sizes that, when attached, create a bond similar to attaching nodes in the VAB. I'd suggest a "port" for 3.75 and 2.5, as those are the main candidates for large ship construction.

I wouldn't mind a male, female style, to add a bit more thought into the process.

[Wabbit]

Yah, I was thinking male/female docking ports.

[Van Disaster]

Apparently docking port->weld conversion has been done already, so that's possible. You could just replace the ports with a giant flat invisible strut too I guess.

[Tuareg]

I think some are making this more complicated than it needs to be. Just add a single part to appropriate sizes that, when attached, create a bond similar to attaching nodes in the VAB. I'd suggest a "port" for 3.75 and 2.5, as those are the main candidates for large ship construction.

I wouldn't mind a male, female style, to add a bit more thought into the process.

even you overcomplicate it eva engineers simply should be able to connect parts like KAS does, without size restriction. sure not the engineer moves the parts they would have to be in the right position... thats it. no parts needed, nothing is needed just 3 lines of code...

[Himynameisjake]

I remember suggesting something like this at some point a long time ago and it was on the list of things not to suggest because it involved reducing part counts or whatever. that being said, i really like the idea and now that 1.0 is on the way we should revisit a bunch of stuff on that list. Id prefer a self welding docking port to make it secure, EVA to activate it, then shrouds the ports. If you want to disassemble then its another EVA trip and back to normal.

not trying to reduce parts, just better bind permanent structures.

[Daze]

This is called ActiveStruts ( and there's the old Quantum Struts which is vaguely similar ) if you want to try it out. Pretty useful thing that'd be a nice addition to stock.

Oh well... I will try ahahaha

Anyway i think that a way to reduce the parts to the minimum is to use only one base strut which is tweakeable, you can switch to "base point" or "normal strut":

Base point: An in/out base that can be linked to another base point

Normal strut: Strut as we know it

Oh, and maybe with a better texture

[Captain Sierra]

I think people are taking this too tangentially with struts and all.

As far as the concept goes, two docked craft are technically one thing due to part tree. THe problem far as I know is that the joint strength is determined heavily by the mass of the part. docking ports arent heavy. Most everything else is. docking port - docking port connection is inherently weak. Try the grip-o-tron from Near Future Construction. It weighs 10x that of a sr. port. Less wobble due to absurd mass. Not sure if this is a flaw in Unity part tree physics or if this can be fixed in the KSP code.

[Capt Snuggler]

This came up while back. My suggestion was a series of square "ports" that would snap to 90degree rotations. Once joined EVA an engineer kerbal and lock them down/weld them.

I guess I should have posted the idea on reddit. suggestions on reddit weigh 10x what they do here.

[klgraham1013]

even you overcomplicate it eva engineers simply should be able to connect parts like KAS does, without size restriction. sure not the engineer moves the parts they would have to be in the right position... thats it. no parts needed, nothing is needed just 3 lines of code...

Oh, ok. Not even having a part, than? I misinterpreted your meaning. Hmm. Moving parts to the appropriate position may be difficult. A "port" or similar would provide a defined target. I suppose it depends what you're looking to do.

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I guess I should have posted the idea on reddit. suggestions on reddit weigh 10x what they do here.

You are not wrong.

[Tuareg]

Oh, ok. Not even having a part, than? I misinterpreted your meaning. Hmm. Moving parts to the appropriate position may be difficult. A "port" or similar would provide a defined target. I suppose it depends what you're looking to do.

in VAB you dont have any "port" or whatever to connect bits. what i mean is, if we want to assemble things in space, it would be far easier to move the objects close enough with either infernal robotics or rcs or any other way, position them as you would in the VAB and with eva kerbal apply the joint. It would be a completely minimalist solution and would be easy to do. Set up angle and distance rules for sure, but thats it. if you want to add jointparts its up to you but they are not necessary i think

[Technical Ben]

Nodes are stronger than surface mounting in KSP IIRC. So having it node based might help.

[panzer1b]

Im all for it.

A while back i did a few attempts at procedural capital ships. Even with a 3-4 docking port at once connection, the craft is still wobbly and buggy. I do believe it should have limits, but for example, things inside docking bays (planned in 1.0 with aero), should not only have their drag removed when docking bay closed, but disable physics on those parts (ohh what id do for docking bays full of guided missiles with 0 extra lag).