Who needs yaw control anyway? (AKA the minimal control surface challenge)

[ineon]

If you have done much plane building you will know that planes usually have 5 sets of control surfaces: 2 sets of ailerons, 2 elevators/canards and 1 rudder. It is possible to combine the elevators and ailerons into elevons, and so use 3 sets of control surfaces (2 elevons and 1 rudder). Your challenge today is to reduce that further.

The challenge

Design and fly a plane from the KSC runway to the island runway with as few control surfaces as possible. End your flight on the runway of the island and show the flight time. In addition to few control you must also not use gimbaling, RCS or reaction wheels as this would make the challenge far too easy (and not nearly explodey enough). Post pictures of the flight and landing.

The challenge is split into 3 levels: 

• Who needs yaw control anyway? level - using just 2 control surfaces
• Who's steering this thing? level - using only 1 control surface
• Asymmetric thrust master! level - using 0 control surfaces

The winner of each section is the pilot with the fastest time.

The rules

• You must have 0, 1 or 2 control surfaces on your plane (or vehicle - I assume that you will build a plane, but any other type is fine) 
• Planes can be manned or automated
• You must actually fly - no driving to the water and then sailing there!
  • Although you can taxi around
• You may include components that contain reaction wheels, but you must disable them (post a pic of them disabled)
• You may also include components that have gimbal, but again you must disable them (and post a pic)
• No cheaty cheating! (e.g. hyperedit, etc...)
• You must start off flying directly East (i.e. no pointing your plane directly the island and trying to get the right ballistic trajectory)
• Your plane must arrive in one piece

Mods

• Infernal robotics + regular wings = control surfaces, so I am going to ban IR.
• No mods that change aerodynamics - let's keep this a level playing field
• No mods that add wing parts
• If mechjeb can fly your plane then well done to you  - so go ahead
• I might disallow some more mods if they look too cheaty

Who needs yaw control anyway? leader board

 

Who's steering this things? leader board

• @ineon - 3:22

Asymmetric thrust master! leaderboard

• @funk - 3:10
• @zolotiyeruki  - 17:04

Notable mention to @Nich - first to get close to the the island runway without any control surfaces.

My try

Here is my submission demonstrating that it is actually possible. 

I am doing the Who's steering this thing? level with a single control surface on the tail providing some pitch. Roll is achieved by moving ore between 2 tanks on the wings.

Time 3 minutes 22 seconds.

Edited March 16, 2016 by ineon

[Nich]

Technically you didn't fly to the runway as parachuting is falling not flying

[ineon]

28 minutes ago, Nich said:

Technically you didn't fly to the runway as parachuting is falling not flying

Please feel free to do better - it is a challenge after all.

And in the rules:

Quote

• Although you can taxi around

so you don't need to land exactly on the runway

Edited March 15, 2016 by ineon

[Nich]

So made a stable craft that should have self corrected but thanks to the aero of KSP it didnt   Top speed of about 32 m/s and then of course as I was coming in a stupid hill came out of nowhere and with no controls a crash landing was the best I would do.  It uses the big tail combined with thrust limiting the left and right engine to control roll and speed to control pitch 32+ pull up 32- dive down.  With a dual throttle (like in a real airplane) I could probably land it first try but I don't know if I will ever be able to land using the thrust limiting menus.  After spending almost 15 minutes just flying  there I am exhausted as this plane creates a lot of pilot fatigue trying to keep it balanced.

 

Edited March 15, 2016 by Nich

[Triop]

Something like this ?

Wings are overrated...

[zolotiyeruki]

This sounds like a lot of fun....I'll have to try it out tonight

EDIT:  Well, getting off the ground and maintaining stable flight is hard enough.  But landing in the traditional sense (safely, without chutes) with no control surfaces is HARD!

EDIT 2:  I did it!  Zero control surfaces one engine, landed safely at the airfield.  Timestamp on the screenshot is 17 minutes and change.  It cruises stably about 42m/s.  Roll/yaw control is done by balancing ore tanks (thanks for the idea, OP!), and altitude is controlled with the throttle.  No screencaps during the flight, as it's a full-time job to keep the dang thing flying straight.  I might have had the brake torque set a bit high on landing, but given how hard it was to get *to* the airfield in the first place, I didn't want to take the chance that I'd run off the end.

Edited March 16, 2016 by zolotiyeruki

[funk]

Here is my attempt without control surfaces. Full stop time is 3min 10/11s. At first I thought, it cannot be that hard to replace the forces of the control surfaces with engines, but for landing it is hard to get things right.

Craftfile: Funkyndustries - NoControl

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by funk

[Nich]

hhhmmmm.... not sure if cheating or if I am just jealous I didn't think of it

[zolotiyeruki]

48 minutes ago, Nich said:

hhhmmmm.... not sure if cheating or if I am just jealous I didn't think of it

I thought about it, too, but (apparently falsely) assumed that only air-breathing engines were allowed.  And the throttle response for a Juno would be *way* too slow to use reliably for pitch control.

[funk]

2 hours ago, Nich said:

hhhmmmm.... not sure if cheating or if I am just jealous I didn't think of it

I've read the rules more than once and no gimbals as well as asymetric thrust seems to be a hint. There's probably room for improvements of this design. But I'll leave it to other players to use more and bigger engines or boosters. It might be more challenging regarding timing and decelerating, but it should be possible. Nvm I like the mass shifting idea,too. I've also thought of airbreaks as control surfaces, but imo they create too much drag. Maybe the design ideas can be combined.

P.S. My signature isn't just random.

Edited March 16, 2016 by funk

[ineon]

13 hours ago, Nich said:

hhhmmmm.... not sure if cheating or if I am just jealous I didn't think of it

Seems absolutely fine to me . I had considered different engines in lieu of control surfaces, but I went with attempting to control CoM instead.

[Nich]

I was board and I got my plane to the island but over shot the runway

[ineon]

On 3/23/2016 at 5:35 AM, Nich said:

...but over shot the runway

Taxi back to the runway? It would take a bit longer, but you would do it.

[max_creative]

I think vertical stabilizers (aka tails) are useless. And the horizontal stabilizers. So my planes look like b-2 bombers. And they actually fly sorta well. But I have SAS. And thrust vectoring.

[EnderKid2]

Has anyone tried a rudder elevator throttle design?