[ASC-III] Air Superiority Challenge - King of the Hill (BDArmory 4v4 AI Duels: WW1 Theme) - Now Concluded!

[inigma]

I present to you the first entry in the Air Superiority Challenge Series III, the Pretender to the Throne:

The Guppy Mk. 2

Don't underestimate its cuteness.

https://kerbalx.com/inigma/Guppy-Mk-2

Air Superiority Challenge III is now open for submissions! Please re-read the OP rules for Entry Requirements before posting. Only new submissions beyond this point will be accepted for ASC III.

Happy hunting!

[SuicidalInsanity]

@inigma:Having passed a qualifying test battle against the Guppy, I'll start things off and give the Pretender it's first challenger: SI-5 'Tyrant'.
 

[Draconiator]

Okay, someone else can do my challenge battle because Vessel Mover is being an cheeks, will test ASAP, may need to rebuild it from the ground up, but the Super Llama WILL see combat.

Edit - had to do it the long way but it works...Kerbals keep falling out of the Guppy though, good thing I learned to quicksave after every successful Kerbal sit.

Edit 2 - had to get even more creative for the last two placements because the Kerbals would NOT stay in the seat and the planes would run away thanks to no brakes.  so,,,I had to start them this way:

Edited June 1, 2016 by Draconiator

[Charlie_Zulu]

I've noticed some issues with the AI when trying to test ASC III crafts.  I have two relatively capable fighters (one can keep above 50 m/s in a 5g vertical loop) that are both stable (both the AI and SAS hold them straight towards a moving target), and they're both armed with Hispano Mk.2s.  When I pilot them, I have no trouble shooting things down, even with mouse & keyboard.

However, I've had two glitches.  First, the AI won't start the competition; it gets hung up on "pilots are taking off" & keeps both planes orbiting at their cruise altitude until they run out of fuel.  If I use Guard Mode to get around this & attack cruising targets, the AI just shoots at a point slightly underneath the enemy.  I'm suspecting that it's not compensating for bullet drop - it was even worse when using MK108s.  This means you have to get right on the enemy's tail in order to land a shot, or just get really lucky.

As well, a few general questions:  First, how do guns interact with engines?  Do guns have a virtual synchro gear, or do they just ignore the effect of the prop?  Is mounting a Motorkanone desirable?  

Finally, here's my current flagship aircraft, the F2C-B Tern, though I've been unable to test it.  I'm currently working on a high-performance monoplane variant with a higher cockpit, as well as a biplane with a lightweight cockpit and better forward visibility.  If the Kerbal pops out, just re-board the seat.  

   

Edited June 1, 2016 by Charlie_Zulu
Added pictures

[Draconiator]

Another issue I just ran into.  The AI seems to IMMEDIATELY bank right when it gets to launch speed, destroying the plane on the runway.  This doesn't affect the Guppy though, they take off normally.

 

oh....INIGMA DISQUALIFIED, WW1 did not have retractable gear

[jrodriguez]

1 hour ago, Draconiator said:

Okay, someone else can do my challenge battle because Vessel Mover is being an cheeks, will test ASAP, may need to rebuild it from the ground up, but the Super Llama WILL see combat.

Edit - had to do it the long way but it works...Kerbals keep falling out of the Guppy though, good thing I learned to quicksave after every successful Kerbal sit.

Edit 2 - had to get even more creative for the last two placements because the Kerbals would NOT stay in the seat and the planes would run away thanks to no brakes.  so,,,I had to start them this way:

As a veteran match hoster I have been using a work around for the "planes run away". Change brake power to 20 on the rear landing gears, disable brakes in front landing gear,and Add braking action when staging

Edited June 1, 2016 by jrodriguez

[Draconiator]

I think I figured out the AI issue.  The root node was at the back end of the plane, so the AI thought the plane was "backwards".  o_O

[DoctorDavinci]

43 minutes ago, Charlie_Zulu said:

I've noticed some issues with the AI when trying to test ASC III crafts.  I have two relatively capable fighters (one can keep above 50 m/s in a 5g vertical loop) that are both stable (both the AI and SAS hold them straight towards a moving target), and they're both armed with Hispano Mk.2s.  When I pilot them, I have no trouble shooting things down, even with mouse & keyboard.

However, I've had two glitches.  First, the AI won't start the competition; it gets hung up on "pilots are taking off" & keeps both planes orbiting at their cruise altitude until they run out of fuel.  If I use Guard Mode to get around this & attack cruising targets, the AI just shoots at a point slightly underneath the enemy.  I'm suspecting that it's not compensating for bullet drop - it was even worse when using MK108s.  This means you have to get right on the enemy's tail in order to land a shot, or just get really lucky.  

See below for your answer to competition mode not working ... you have to add a couple lines to the AI antenna config file

Also, each weapon in AA has different muzzle velocities and damage ... Cyclic rate is one thing but how fast your bullet leaves the barrel is another one

Some weapons shoot at a lower cyclic rate than others but their muzzle velocity is higher so it is easier to hit your opponent ... AA's weapons were researched and balanced to simulate real world weapons from the WW2 era

Edited June 1, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[Draconiator]

38 minutes ago, Draconiator said:

Another issue I just ran into.  The AI seems to IMMEDIATELY bank right when it gets to launch speed, destroying the plane on the runway.  This doesn't affect the Guppy though, they take off normally.

 

oh....INIGMA DISQUALIFIED, WW1 did not have retractable gear

Problem Solved, I was RIGHT!   Fixed, and testing underway.

[DoctorDavinci]

38 minutes ago, Draconiator said:

Another issue I just ran into.  The AI seems to IMMEDIATELY bank right when it gets to launch speed, destroying the plane on the runway.  This doesn't affect the Guppy though, they take off normally.

Turn off steering ... change traction control to override then set springs and damper to maximum on all landing gear ... widen the front landing gear so that they are about 1/3 to 1/2 the planes width apart from each other

[NotAnAimbot]

What do you guys set altitude to?

[JollyGreenGI]

1 minute ago, NotAnAimbot said:

What do you guys set altitude to?

I've set mine to as low as possible, but that's because I'm confident that my craft are able to pull up at the last second. If you're not sure, set min height to 200-250m.

 

Unrelated, but an issue that crops up once in a while is that downed craft sometimes remain targeted, because of the lower combat speeds the planes are more likely to be more or less intact on impact. This usually holds the attention of a fighter for much too long.

[inigma]

1 hour ago, Draconiator said:

Another issue I just ran into.  The AI seems to IMMEDIATELY bank right when it gets to launch speed, destroying the plane on the runway.  This doesn't affect the Guppy though, they take off normally.

 

oh....INIGMA DISQUALIFIED, WW1 did not have retractable gear

gear probs demanded futuristic gear  

Permitted.

[Draconiator]

Results of Super Llama vs. Guppy test 1:

 

I submit this craft... https://kerbalx.com/Draconiator/Kerbwith-Super-Llama

 

I had to set the distance to 3k however because they would have kept circling FOREVER otherwise.  And the second test is going as follows.  one of my planes crashed, too close to ground.  The Guppy shot down two more, and the last one crashed, similar to the first one, so they seem evenly matched no matter the distance.  kind of liuke me vs. you in ASC II.  Running more tests.

[Bananders]

1 hour ago, Charlie_Zulu said:

I've noticed some issues with the AI when trying to test ASC III crafts.  I have two relatively capable fighters (one can keep above 50 m/s in a 5g vertical loop) that are both stable (both the AI and SAS hold them straight towards a moving target), and they're both armed with Hispano Mk.2s.  When I pilot them, I have no trouble shooting things down, even with mouse & keyboard.

However, I've had two glitches.  First, the AI won't start the competition; it gets hung up on "pilots are taking off" & keeps both planes orbiting at their cruise altitude until they run out of fuel.  If I use Guard Mode to get around this & attack cruising targets, the AI just shoots at a point slightly underneath the enemy.  I'm suspecting that it's not compensating for bullet drop - it was even worse when using MK108s.  This means you have to get right on the enemy's tail in order to land a shot, or just get really lucky.

As well, a few general questions:  First, how do guns interact with engines?  Do guns have a virtual synchro gear, or do they just ignore the effect of the prop?  Is mounting a Motorkanone desirable?  

Finally, here's my current flagship aircraft, the F2C-B Tern, though I've been unable to test it.  I'm currently working on a high-performance monoplane variant with a higher cockpit, as well as a biplane with a lightweight cockpit and better forward visibility.  If the Kerbal pops out, just re-board the seat.  

   

What a beautiful airplane!

[Draconiator]

Inigma, the Llama is ready to go, I'm winning approximately half of the matches I am testing.  LETS DOOOOO THIIIIIIIS Y0!

[inigma]

1 hour ago, Charlie_Zulu said:

I've noticed some issues with the AI when trying to test ASC III crafts.  I have two relatively capable fighters (one can keep above 50 m/s in a 5g vertical loop) that are both stable (both the AI and SAS hold them straight towards a moving target), and they're both armed with Hispano Mk.2s.  When I pilot them, I have no trouble shooting things down, even with mouse & keyboard.

However, I've had two glitches.  First, the AI won't start the competition; it gets hung up on "pilots are taking off" & keeps both planes orbiting at their cruise altitude until they run out of fuel.  If I use Guard Mode to get around this & attack cruising targets, the AI just shoots at a point slightly underneath the enemy.  I'm suspecting that it's not compensating for bullet drop - it was even worse when using MK108s.  This means you have to get right on the enemy's tail in order to land a shot, or just get really lucky.

As well, a few general questions:  First, how do guns interact with engines?  Do guns have a virtual synchro gear, or do they just ignore the effect of the prop?  Is mounting a Motorkanone desirable?  

Finally, here's my current flagship aircraft, the F2C-B Tern, though I've been unable to test it.  I'm currently working on a high-performance monoplane variant with a higher cockpit, as well as a biplane with a lightweight cockpit and better forward visibility.  If the Kerbal pops out, just re-board the seat.  

   

Is the tail a Mk 3 part though? Anyone confirm?

[inigma]

Anyone know what mod allows you to add flags to wing parts?

[JollyGreenGI]

1 minute ago, inigma said:

Anyone know what mod allows you to add flags to wing parts?

If you're talking about the F2C-B up there, that's stock. Only those wings have flags on them.

[inigma]

17 minutes ago, JollyGreenGI said:

If you're talking about the F2C-B up there, that's stock. Only those wings have flags on them.

No, there's another mod out there that allows you to put flags on other parts.  @pandoras kitten should know.  

[Draconiator]

I'm testing the S-1 against the Guppy now.,,,probably will not submit that one.  it's a snorefest lol

[SuicidalInsanity]

4 hours ago, Draconiator said:

Okay, someone else can do my challenge battle because Vessel Mover is being an cheeks, will test ASAP, may need to rebuild it from the ground up, but the Super Llama WILL see combat.

Have you tried spawning the vessel on the runway and then using the VesselMover Move function to get the plane into position, returning to the Space center to spawn the next plane from the runway, lather, rinse,repeat? I remember someone stating the spawn vessel function had issues in some cases.

1 hour ago, inigma said:

Is the tail a Mk 3 part though? Anyone confirm?

It's a FAT-455 brand part, so maybe?

Regarding decal mods, perhaps TheWriteStuff or Decal Flags and Numbers has what you're looking for?

[jrodriguez]

Hi guys,

I think I have found the issue with Vessel Mover regarding spawn vessels. The problem is when you apply a re-root to your vessel then Vessel Mover will freak out with some part connected to your new root.

[JollyGreenGI]

So I tried strapping ALL the guns to a craft, and rainbows happened.

 

Oh, also submitting the K&K "Sweep" for ASC-III. Has been tested against the current KOTH, I expect it to be competitive.

[Bananders]

5 minutes ago, jrodriguez said:

The problem is when you apply a re-root to your vessel then Vessel Mover will freak out with some part connected to your new root.

i think you're right