Devnote Tuesday: We’re back!

[vsully]

Hey guys! Welcome back!

But what about...

Updated comms system? And the Tier 0 buildings, with no SPH/Runway/Tracking Station, just the VAB (Barn)/Launchpad (Grass)/Mission Control (shack)/Admin Building (Porta-Potty)/Astrounaut Complex (trailer)/and R&D (garage)? I was looking forward to those buildings...

[Pthigrivi]

I'm not big on armchair quarterbacking, it's a personal style. 

 

Welcome back guys

[Arsonide]

13 hours ago, WildLynx said:

What is the status of telescope from Asteroid Day? Do SQUAD plans to update it as mod, or add it into stock or it will be updated much later?

Rather than updating the official mods, then immediately having to update them again, we will be releasing that shortly after 1.1.3.

 

49 minutes ago, Padishar said:

No, KSP 1.1.2 is currently using Unity 5.2.4.  Unity 5.3 has been released for some time and 5.4 has recently gone into beta (I believe).  Apparently, the wheels were already much improved in 5.3.

Indeed, the larger wheel fixes should be in 1.2, as that is when we will update the engine itself, which is not something we would typically want folded into a hotfix.

[p_gper]

Oh! Man! So hyped for the communication in KSP. I hope they will release it in the upcoming patch. Go, Roverdude!

 

[sackfalte]

As I spend most of my KSP-time inside the VAB/SPH, I really hope the Crashes to Desktop will be tackled first.

It took all the joy out of the game, because it kept the game from being played!

I am avoiding pain and suffering by playing other games, such as Cities:Skyline, but that doesn't mean I can't wait to finally start an RO/RSS/RP-0 career in 1.1.X ....

[Alshain]

43 minutes ago, Arsonide said:

Indeed, the larger wheel fixes should be in 1.2, as that is when we will update the engine itself, which is not something we would typically want folded into a hotfix.

Then why bother with 1.1.3?  As I said in my first post, why not fix all the major issues in a single version, and NOT release another version that will not allow us to play game like you did for the last 3 versions?

It's just a waste of time doing a 1.1.3, a game that is too bugged to be played is a game that is too bugged to be played.  All it is going to do is force us to wait longer with the absolute worst version of this game Squad has ever released.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Alshain

[Arsonide]

4 minutes ago, Alshain said:

Then why bother with 1.1.3?

Because there are other issues that need to be addressed, as outlined in yesterday's development log.

[Alshain]

Just now, Arsonide said:

Because there are other issues that need to be addressed, as outlined in yesterday's development log.

 

So my original post in this thread was true, we are not going to get a stable version before you start cramming new buggy features into the game.

[Nils277]

21 minutes ago, Alshain said:

Then why bother with 1.1.3?  As I said in my first post, why not fix all the major issues in a single version, and NOT release another version that will not allow us to play game like you did for the last 3 versions?

It's just a waste of time doing a 1.1.3, a game that is too bugged to be played is a game that is too bugged to be played.  All it is going to do is force us to wait longer with the absolute worst version of this game Squad has ever released.

Because the update to 1.2 will have another (but smaller) change of the underlying engine and will need some time, it is not likely to come around very soon (i think at least 1-2 Months). It is completely comprehensible that they want to make an intermediate release for the bugfixes that can done without the need for the new unity version. I do not understand what your problem with that is. The bugs have to be solved, regardless if 1.1.3 comes or not. And it is better to have at least some of the bugs fixed in the meantime. Just imagine the riot if Squad said that they won't release any fixes for the next months?
Do you fear that 1.2 will be delayed because they want to make a bugfix release? 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Nils277

[p1t1o]

Chill people, they are back, and bugfixing is on the menu.I don't know what else people were expecting?

[Alshain]

1 minute ago, Nils277 said:

Because the update to 1.2 will have another (but smaller) change of the underlying engine and will need some time, it is not likely to come around very soon (i think at least 1-2 Months). It is completely comprehensible that they want to make an intermediate release for the bugfixes that can done without the need for the new unity version. I do not understand what your problem with that is. The bugs have to be solved, regardless if 1.1.3 comes or not. And it is better to have at least some of the bugs fixed in the meantime, there would be a riot if Squad said that they won't release any fixed for the next months?
Do you fear that 1.2 will be delayed because the want to make a bugfix release?

That would be fine if this intermediate release were to make the game playable, but the wheels are one of the biggest issues.  So we get to sit around and wait for them to release 1.1.3, then sit around some more, wait for 1.2, then sit around some more and wait for 1.2.1, 1.2.2, and 1.2.3 to fix all the new wonderful bugs... assuming they don't decide fix those in 1.3.

1.1 is just a throwaway version.  Why was it released at all if we are just going to wait for 1.2 to be able to play?

[p1t1o]

10 minutes ago, Alshain said:

That would be fine if this intermediate release were to make the game playable, but the wheels are one of the biggest issues.  So we get to sit around and wait for them to release 1.1.3, then sit around some more, wait for 1.2, then sit around some more and wait for 1.2.1, 1.2.2, and 1.2.3 to fix all the new wonderful bugs... assuming they don't decide fix those in 1.3.

1.1 is just a throwaway version.  Why was it released at all if we are just going to wait for 1.2 to be able to play?

What is it that you want to hear?

[Alshain]

Just now, p1t1o said:

What is it that you want to hear?

I think I've made that pretty clear by now.  At least to those who have read the thread and not just the last post.

[p1t1o]

2 minutes ago, Alshain said:

I think I've made that pretty clear by now. At least to those who have read the thread and not just the last post.

Ugh. Ok then, good luck.

[Kerbart]

11 minutes ago, Alshain said:

1.1 is just a throwaway version.  Why was it released at all if we are just going to wait for 1.2 to be able to play?

• Because while there are issues, the 1.1 release is not "unplayable" for most players
• Because 1.0 wasn't without issues either, and some of the most pressing (peformance, memory limits) were solved
• Because there was a lot of pressure from the community to release the update

While the 1.1 release is not perfect, I don't think waiting another 6 months before releasing it would have been benificial to either Squad or the KSP community. Besides that, valuable lessons were learned about the pre-release process.  I'm sure the next pre-release will not be exclusively Steam, and can therefore run much longer before going gold. In that sense 1.2 will be much better than a delayed 1.1 every would have been. At least that is my expectation.

[Green Baron]

13 minutes ago, Alshain said:

I think I've made that pretty clear by now.  At least to those who have read the thread and not just the last post.

I perfectly understand your frustration but there is nothing we can do. Lamenting is futile and patience we must have if i may say so :-) I'm totally with you and will wait for 1.2 - and probably others do the same without shouting it out. That's gone a be a thrilling wait cause No Man's Sky release could come in the way ;-)

We cannot and certainly should not influence squad's project planning. From my experience things go fastest when people can do their job without too much pressure or the urge for particular results (provided they all know their job).

Good thing: until then my lust for ksp will most probably be refreshed :-)

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Green Baron

[Alshain]

@Green Baron Are you talking about the project plan to release more bugs to offset the old bugs or the project plan to release a version that still can't be played?

Edited May 25, 2016 by Alshain

[Speadge]

12 minutes ago, Alshain said:

I think I've made that pretty clear by now.  At least to those who have read the thread and not just the last post.

why dont u just wait for 1.1.3 or 1.1.5 or better 1.2 and pretend for urself 1.1 never happened? just Keep playing 1.0.5 as if 1.1 has never been released and be happy.

Others are complaining they should release "what they have already" and u complain that they did release it.

Stay in your own world and stop complaining about a release thatsconfirmed to be fixed - and just wait for the bugfixes if u prefered to get 1.1 delayed.

 

Either way. there is no sense in complaining about the release. Its what they had until now and a 100% final Version will be released at the same date if they're doing this with bugfixes as if they would have delayed 1.1

[Gaarst]

To all saying we should ignore 1.1 and wait for 1.2 as if 1.1 was never released or that a buggy 1.1 with patches after is better than a delayed 1.1: Squad is a company, and there is a thing called "image" or PR.

By releasing a buggy build Squad is hurting itself more than us: we already bought the game, so our opinion doesn't matter as much as those who haven't yet: releasing 1.1 late is therefore not a problem. Now, a buggy build hurts Squad's reputation from possible new players and some of them are likely to not get the game because of that (and the "debatable" way Squad has handled previous big releases so far).

I can't play 1.1 right now so from my PoV releasing 1.1 late or waiting for patches doesn't make any practical difference (save the frustration of having to stick to 1.0.X while others play the game). From my PoV Squad's choice of rushing 1.1 was a mistake, that's it.

[Alshain]

8 minutes ago, Speadge said:

why dont u just wait for 1.1.3 or 1.1.5 or better 1.2 and pretend for urself 1.1 never happened? just Keep playing 1.0.5 as if 1.1 has never been released and be happy.

Others are complaining they should release "what they have already" and u complain that they did release it.

Stay in your own world and stop complaining about a release thatsconfirmed to be fixed - and just wait for the bugfixes if u prefered to get 1.1 delayed.

 

Either way. there is no sense in complaining about the release. Its what they had until now and a 100% final Version will be released at the same date if they're doing this with bugfixes as if they would have delayed 1.1

You aren't getting the issue here, the issue is not the release of 1.1 it's the fact that 1.2 will not fix the problem because it will be buggy.  Mark my words, it's going to be a buggy.... majorly buggy.  Not minor little annoyances, game breaking buggy.  If they do not fix the problems before adding in more problematic code, it will not fix the problems.  Squad has this idea that they can release a new version with new features that does not contain major game breaking bugs.  In the history of their company that has not happened.  I can wait for 1.infinity, but their current path is not going to change a thing.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Alshain

[Cornholio]

13 minutes ago, Green Baron said:

I perfectly understand your frustration but there is nothing we can do. Lamenting is futile and patience we must have if i may say so :-) I'm totally with you and will wait for 1.2 - and probably others do the same without shouting it out. That's gone a be a thrilling wait cause No Man's Sky release could come in the way ;-)

We cannot and certainly should not influence squad's project planning. From my experience things go fastest when people can do their job without too much pressure or the urge for particular results (provided they all know their job).

Good thing: until then my lust for ksp will most probably be refreshed :-)

 

This discussion has nothing to do with the speed of release, but the quality of the product.  @Alshain is advocating for Squad to correctly finish work on this patch and all remaining issues of it before moving onto new features.  If that correct process includes updating to 5.4, then that should be the next step, not putting random band-aids on problems.

[stibbons]

Huh. Four paragraphs of "Hey we're back and about to start working again!", followed by four pages of utter tire fire.

Stay classy, forums.

[Red Iron Crown]

@Alshain Your statement that 1.1 is "unplayable" is demonstrably false, I and many other players seem to be playing just fine. I have even made rovers that work, and planes that can takeoff and land on the landing gear, and landers that use the landing gear? How is that possible when the game is "unplayable"? I'll be the first to admit that 1.1 is not perfect or bug free, but it is far, far from unplayable.

Further, your last post is just naysaying, you don't have a crystal ball and you don't know what 1.2 will be like.

I understand that you are not happy with 1.1 for a variety of reasons and you are entitled to your opinion, but all this hyperbole just makes you sound foolish, IMO. Offer something more constructive than "this update is broken and the next one will be too!" if you want to be taken seriously.

[Green Baron]

22 minutes ago, Alshain said:

@Green Baron Are you talking about the project plan to release more bugs to offset the old bugs or the project plan to release a version that still can't be played?

Hi,

i meant Squad has the bug list, the roadmap for the upcoming features, the best overview of the possibilities or deficiencies of the underlying engine, the resources in form of man/woman-power and equipment and a partly mildly frustrated community. Besides that there are 24h/day (+night if that's not enough) :-).

So i believe they are the only ones to evaluate the steps and milestones for the upcoming corrections or releases, attempts to influence, if they succeed, will prolong the process ...

To answer your question more directly: pls. let me add a third option ... talking about a plan to produce a stable release where landing legs don't explode, rovers don't breakdance and planes don't bounce off the runway like egg-shaped rubberballs (great fun !) and that doesn't crash any more due to memory corruptions. Something like ... 1.0.5, but the features of 1.2 ?

:-)

Edit: i see, your 1.2 will not work, while i'm hopeful mine will. Hmm .... no idea ... must back to work now.

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Green Baron

[sackfalte]

3 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

@Alshain Your statement that 1.1 is "unplayable" is demonstrably false, I and many other players seem to be playing just fine. I have even made rovers that work, and planes that can takeoff and land on the landing gear, and landers that use the landing gear? How is that possible when the game is "unplayable"? I'll be the first to admit that 1.1 is not perfect or bug free, but it is far, far from unplayable.

Further, your last post is just naysaying, you don't have a crystal ball and you don't know what 1.2 will be like.

I understand that you are not happy with 1.1 for a variety of reasons and you are entitled to your opinion, but all this hyperbole just makes you sound foolish, IMO. Offer something more constructive than "this update is broken and the next one will be too!" if you want to be taken seriously.

 

Please, can I send you my KSP instance for you to enjoy a whopping 15 minutes or less of gameplay prior to repeatable and definitely not-random crashes-to-desktop in the VAB/SPH that lack any sort of description or documentation in all the log-files?

 

Tell me how far from unplayable that is.

 

From what I can gather, the CTD may be related to Unity itself, and not KSP, and therefore first tackling the CDT issue, then planning a new release with an updated Unity version make no sense whatsoever.