Dogfighter Ultimate Free For All

[drtricky]

32 minutes ago, theend3r said:

Aww, when I saw the word Ultimate, I though it would be without any limitations. The fuel limit really ruins some of my ingenious creations like this flying kOS GAU

Your plane doesn't appear to have any engines though. It technically doesn't need any fuel. 

[Pds314]

2 hours ago, theend3r said:

Aww, when I saw the word Ultimate, I though it would be without any limitations. The fuel limit really ruins some of my ingenious creations like this flying kOS GAU

Yeah. I wanted planes to have reasonable flight times and not be crazy small or have crazy TWR.

Also, that plane is fine, since even if it provides thrust, I would not consider a gun to be an engine. If I did, then people would probably all use 1x Browning because even that would need 11250 rounds of ammo, or 10 ammo boxes. Nearly 1.5 tonnes of ammo and boxes just for a single browning. The other two autocannons would actually be illegal because of part count restrictions.

The problem is that the AI doesn't know how to fly with guns, and definitely could not, for example, take off without being in guard mode. Also, a GAU-8 provides 29.244 kN of thrust (in BDA) by consuming 70 rounds per second. 600 rounds mass 0.44 tonnes, so 1 round (not 1 bullet, the whole cartridge) masses 0.73 kg. Burning 51.3 kg of fuel every second ain't so good. That's an ISP of about 58 seconds and a TWR of 5.4. Even the worst rockets do better.

 

The reason it's called ultimate free for all is because that's what a free for all where everyone you killed respawns when you die is called.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Pds314

[SuicidalInsanity]

4 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

That was added in v1.2 ... it can be disabled in the settings menu although exactly where I have not a clue

In the pause menu, go to settings, and then click the difficulty options button; G limits and aero failures can be found under the advanced options tab.

[Triop]

Some questions:

-"Planes must have radar installed."

Why ? Do guns need radar ?

-"597 (LF) per Panther or Whiplash"

Why so much ? A light fighter can fly 15 min. on 400 LF, can't it ?

Nice challenge btw.

 

[Pds314]

56 minutes ago, Triop said:

Some questions:

-"Planes must have radar installed."

Why ? Do guns need radar ?

-"597 (LF) per Panther or Whiplash"

Why so much ? A light fighter can fly 15 min. on 400 LF, can't it ?

Nice challenge btw.

 

Not at nominal thrust. If it flies that long, it's probably at altitude or something.

 

Radar is so planes can find each other, otherwise, planes 5 kilometers apart can't see each other.

If you don't want to need much fuel, just use a prop. The SXT mk1 size props generate like 60 kN statically and burn 190 LF/hour. That's 47.5 LF, less than one mk0 tank.

Or you could use an EDF, but considering they have a whopping 1.5kN, and the planes you're competing against have 260-650 kN so far, I wouldn't.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Pds314

[Triop]

Thanks for the info, didn't know that.

I will start brewing something.

[Pds314]

Hmm, question about Arenas:

Should I select arenas that are relatively flat at relatively low altitude (like under 2000 meters) or should I allow for more bizarre arenas sometimes and just figure they hurt or help both vehicles?

I.e.:

Is the top of Mt. Keverest a good arena?

Is it okay to do some fights on Laythe?

Are Arenas like in round 2 too extreme?

Are Arenas like in round 3 too extreme?

I think I'll post a poll on the first page.

EDIT: stupid question: how do I actually post said poll?

Edited December 5, 2016 by Pds314

[DoctorDavinci]

6 minutes ago, Pds314 said:

Hmm, question about Arenas:

Should I select arenas that are relatively flat at relatively low altitude (like under 2000 meters) or should I allow for more bizarre arenas sometimes and just figure they hurt or help both vehicles?

I.e.:

Is the top of Mt. Keverest a good arena?

Is it okay to do some fights on Laythe?

Are Arenas like in round 2 too extreme?

Are Arenas like in round 3 too extreme?

I think I'll post a poll on the first page.

Doing battles in the mountains will lead to a lot of RUD's from flying into the side of a mountain

As for Laythe battles, there is a Laythe challenge incoming using custom launch arenas made in KK (some have already been created) .... please stand by 

[Pds314]

4 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Doing battles in the mountains will lead to a lot of RUD's from flying into the side of a mountain

As for Laythe battles, there is a Laythe challenge incoming using custom launch arenas made in KK (some have already been created) .... please stand by 

Yeah, especially at high altitude where the heavier jets might have a TWR under 1.0.

I look forward to a Laythe challenge. xD

Edited December 5, 2016 by Pds314

[DoctorDavinci]

Just now, Pds314 said:

Yeah, especially at high altitude where the jets might have a TWR under 1.0.

The main issue is that the AI will not recognize a rock face until it is too late ... and even then there are times that the AI will fly a craft into a mountain just to spite you 

[Pds314]

2 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

The main issue is that the AI will not recognize a rock face until it is too late ... and even then there are times that the AI will fly a craft into a mountain just to spite you 

Yeah. This reminds me of something that occasionally happens to my Iridium. If it's really focused on getting a kill. It is definitely maneuverable enough to turn around before hitting the ground, but sometimes it will follow enemy planes down if it's in a steep dive without much maneuvering being done. Probably would have issues in mountains.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Pds314

[Eidahlil]

Well, since the first Lepidoptera is dead, I'd like to make use of the modification rule where it stays dead and send in an update: http://kerbalx.com/juzeris/Lepidoptera-Cherensis

I, personally, enjoy the different backgrounds, though I can totally see my Lepidoptera flying into terrain anywhere. It still likes to fall out of the sky sometimes, even when going to starting positions over KSP, though I think that's a different AI quirk.

I'd probably go for standard low and flat arenas for first fights, but when entries are having a rematch (due to resurrection), anything goes?

3 hours ago, Pds314 said:

If you don't want to need much fuel, just use a prop.

I'm really tempted to do that right now, it seems to be the superior choice. But it'd ruin my form factor . Perhaps another time.

[Triop]

So here is my entry, hope it's legit

https://kerbalx.com/Triop/Big-momma-IV

Never mind the name, I got stuck to it.

Spoiler

 

[Pds314]

1 hour ago, Eidahlil said:

Well, since the first Lepidoptera is dead, I'd like to make use of the modification rule where it stays dead and send in an update: http://kerbalx.com/juzeris/Lepidoptera-Cherensis

I, personally, enjoy the different backgrounds, though I can totally see my Lepidoptera flying into terrain anywhere. It still likes to fall out of the sky sometimes, even when going to starting positions over KSP, though I think that's a different AI quirk.

I'd probably go for standard low and flat arenas for first fights, but when entries are having a rematch (due to resurrection), anything goes?

I'm really tempted to do that right now, it seems to be the superior choice. But it'd ruin my form factor . Perhaps another time.

Noted. I will replace your plane when I get home.

7 minutes ago, Triop said:

So here is my entry, hope it's legit

https://kerbalx.com/Triop/Big-momma-IV

Never mind the name, I got stuck to it.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I like the v-tail. I don't see anything that looks un-legit. Next round will be that vs. The Dorito.

[Triop]

1 hour ago, Pds314 said:

I like the v-tail. I don't see anything that looks un-legit. Next round will be that vs. The Dorito.

Cool, that Dorito is a though cookie, not sure if I will win.

Edit: The name Big Momma came from having to make it bulky so it can carry the 1200 LF.

(Or from eating mucho Doritos )

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Triop

[Pds314]

1 hour ago, Triop said:

Cool, that Dorito is a though cookie, not sure if I will win.

Edit: The name Big Momma came from having to make it bulky so it can carry the 1200 LF.

(Or from eating mucho Doritos )

 

Yep. Well, I didn't want to make this a competition for who can get away with bringing the least fuel. If you want to not bring much fuel, you can always make prop planes. 190 LF / hour for 60 kN means a single Mk0 tank should suffice. Problem is that they do not do transonic speeds, but given that most of these fights have been occuring at Mach 0.35 or so after the initial merge, it seems like that might not be much of a disadvantage.

[Pds314]

3 hours ago, Triop said:

Cool, that Dorito is a though cookie, not sure if I will win.

Edit: The name Big Momma came from having to make it bulky so it can carry the 1200 LF.

(Or from eating mucho Doritos )

 

Hey, um, the Big Momma IV only has 900 units of fuel. It has a capacity of 1500. Do you want me to add 150 fuel to each wing to make it legal or do you want to resubmit it?

I shall legalfy it by adding 150 fuel to each wing so it has 1200 LF and take a video. I won't upload it or describe the results though until you give me the okay. If you choose to resubmit it, I will instead delete that video and make one with the resubmitted version. BTW, the added fuel in the wings barely shifts the CoM at all, but it does increase the vehicle weight by 1.5 tonnes, which means instead of being lighter than the Dorito, it is now a few hundred kilos heavier.

EDIT: I've got the video of The Dorito vs. Big Momma IV edited and ready to upload. I think I should probably just upload it since I'm pretty sure you intended the wings to have fuel, but I'll give you a couple hours to say otherwise.

Hmm.. Alright, in the interest of time, I shall upload it. Sorry if it isn't how you wanted it, but you should've checked the fuel.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Pds314

[Pds314]

Alright! Dorito vs. Big Momma!
 

Results:

Spoiler

Triop's Big Momma IV Beat The Dorito! The O'revoire, Iridium, and Lepidoptera Malvae Cherensis are now resurrected! There are now four living planes, and I shall randomly select two of them to compete in the next round!

Two of the Big Mommas appear to have been flying near the end, but they were destroyed and did crash almost immediately after the battle, so even though they were able to contribute to the final kill, the battle is 3-2, not 3-0.

I'm pretty sure where you see 5 exploding + 5 ricocheting 30mm hits on a Big Momma at 3:18 and then it flies within a few meters of the camera, apparently undamaged except for a hot intake, something bad has happened somewhere that causes it to become incapacitated right after the match.

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Pds314

[Triop]

Nice !

Great video, love the ending.

[Pds314]

The next battle will be DoctorDavinci's O' Revoire vs. Eidahlil's Lepidoptera Cherensis, and will be run tomorrow.

1 hour ago, Triop said:

Nice !

Great video, love the ending.

Your plane performed really well. Actually, I'm rather surprised that it managed to withstand TEN Head-on hits in a few seconds with no visible part damage, even if it did later die of its injuries.

I'd also say that your plane seems to have vastly better control stability than The Dorito, which flips around in the air quite a bit. (Granted, this helps the Dorito to dodge bullets)

Edited December 6, 2016 by Pds314

[Eidahlil]

Yay, more battles!

By the way, you can use PageUp and PageDown to switch between vessels in the BDA vessel switcher (the switcher has to be open, but the interface can be hidden).

[Pds314]

12 minutes ago, Eidahlil said:

Yay, more battles!

By the way, you can use PageUp and PageDown to switch between vessels in the BDA vessel switcher (the switcher has to be open, but the interface can be hidden).

Will definitely use this. Should improve video quality.

[DoctorDavinci]

3 minutes ago, Pds314 said:

Will definitely use this. Should improve video quality.

We also have Camera Tools working if you want to use the dogfight camera for your videos

Check in the op of the BDAc thread for the Git repository link ... you'll find the download for the latest release there

 

[Pds314]

12 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

We also have Camera Tools working if you want to use the dogfight camera for your videos

Check in the op of the BDAc thread for the Git repository link ... you'll find the download for the latest release there

 

Thanks, but I'm already using it. =) often times I've been having to switch out of it though, but I think using shortcuts should mostly eliminate the need.

[Pds314]

Battle 6 is (finally) up! O'Revoire vs. Lepidoptera Cherensis! Sorry for the lag, The L. Cherensis is just incredibly taxing to run. Between all 24 GAU-8s in this match, 100800 RPM are capable of being fired. That's 2.8 ammo boxes per second.
 

Spoiler

Lepidoptera Cherensis beat the O' Revoire! I will warn Eidahlil that this plane is very prone to unplanned crash-landings due to yaw instability. I tried to re-take this match with similar results because of poor framerate, but the planes just kept getting into flat unbanked turns that slowly spiralled into the ground and broke the vehicles. I would strongly advise that Eidahlil add at least a little bit of a fixed rudder or change the AI settings or something, because this plane is quite likely to die before reaching the enemy in a future match.

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Pds314