Do you think rocket construction will ever "take time"?

[jfjohnny5]

Read post before replying. This might not be quite what you think it is.

Currently, after you finish designing a rocket you can then launch it immediately. I think that works great for now. But do you think, with Career mode anyway, assembly might actually take time in the future? Like after you're done designing, in addition to the eventual cost in Kerbal dollars, there will also be a "cost" in time; like a certain rocket will take 3 game days to assemble and prep for launch. I think it could add an interesting and challenging aspect to planning for launch windows.

The intent here is not to make you sit there and watch a progress bar. It's about having to plan ahead, to think carefully and develop a strategy. If the rocket is going to take 3 days to build then all you have to do is advance time past that and you're good to go. So to go along with this I guess you would also need to ability to speed up time on the "Space Center" screen, but that's a relatively minor change. So, it's not about forcing the player to sit there and wait for construction to finish "just because." It's about asking the player to make meaningful choices - I need to launch in 2 days... Adding those extra parachutes will take an extra day. Hmmm, I'm sure the Kerbals will be fine without them!

I love the depth and strategy I'm already seeing with the tech tree. We already know Squad is going to add a monetary cost to research and building. I think adding the need to plan your time carefully can add a lot to the strategy layer. Two of the big keys to any successful project are, after all, time and money.

To be clear - I am NOT proposing that time spent in the VAB should also pass in the game. It certainly can, but that is NOT the cornerstone of what I'm talking about.

Edited November 11, 2013 by jfjohnny5
clarified the original idea

[SpaceSphereOfDeath]

what, the loading screens aren't long enough?

In all seriousness, no, At least make it a toggable option

[Bloodbunny]

Not a bad idea, if implemented properly. Using the same lifter over and over could reduce "lead time", while using newly discovered tech for the first time could increase it. Rocket size, number of stages, all could affect how long it takes to build a rocket. With small launch windows, it would definitely add a new challenge; get it built before your Jool transfer window passes.

[Wallace]

I'm wondering if making of parts will take time. In the VAB we have cost and number available, maybe we will have to order new parts and wait for them to be made.

[Scotius]

That actually would be neat . It would force us to plan ahead, and order parts early enough to get them when launch window opens.

[katateochi]

hmmm mixed feelings about this. I feel it would discourage the perfectionist style of building. Or people will just build in one save and transfer it to their main save.

Where it would be cool is where you have a stricken craft that's a day or two away from slamming into Kerbin and you need to build a rescue mission to intercept it. There was a challenge a while back with a "alien" craft on an impact course and you had to intercept it, it would have been cool if the pressure was on during the building phase in that.

But overall I'd vote no, unless its an option.

[Whackjob]

I would launch once every several weeks.

[_Aramchek_]

Yeah, lets not do that.

If you want something like that you could always just postpone your own launches.

[Epthelyn]

This is another example features that would really add something special to the game, but that not everyone would want; I'm pretty sure even the people who would love this to happen would run into a situation whereby they wished there was no waiting at some point. Considering most larger rockets take more than one flight to work as planned, it would get in the way if it scaled with the number of parts (as would be expected).

So, as with all good suggestions of this type:

Yes please, but with the option to turn it on/off.

[Brofessional]

I think it's better to just assume that it's not YOU building the rockets, but your engineers and such. Thus your VAB/SPH time and your flight time are happening simultaneously.

[Seret]

I severely doubt this would ever be in the vanilla game, as it would lock out any kind of casual play. I realise most people on this forum are a bit obsessive about KSP, but for a lot of people it's just a fun little game to kill an hour with occasionally.

Nothing stopping a mod from implementing it though.

[hobbsyoyo]

What is the upside to this idea again?

[nmdanny]

Horrible idea. This only works in those ****ty mobile pay to win apps where you have a limited amount of energy which slowly recharges and can be instantly filled with those buyable coins/etc.

[Ekku Zakku]

Horrible idea?! Geez, this is one of the things I've always wanted in KSP. I am a programmer, I ought to make a mod to do it lol, but if it were to be in the stock game, then I think it should go along with a difficulty level (which I think the campaign needs already as it is, I mean look at the difference between beginner players struggling to get science and highly skilled players that are maxing the tech tree in 2 launches).

I just feel like time passing in the VAB would give a lot more realism to the game; it just feels so strange to send a probe off to Jool and not have it get there in the time it takes take to colonize the Mun from scratch. The fact that hardly any of my programs have ever gone past 10 years of game time really says something about the way time passes normally. It doesn't make sense!

[nmdanny]

What kind of gameplay would be added by such a feature?

For example, you launch a rocket but it explodes, you go to the VAB and design a new one. But you can't launch it, you gotta stare at the screen blankly for X minutes until you can. (Or design other vehicles in VAB/SPA, or control a craft already in orbit if you have any)

Absolutely no point in such addon unless you're extremely hardcore and willing to put such (realistic) restrictions which have no contribution to gameplay.

On the other hand, a system for career where launches cost resources, and those resources might take time to recharge/re-obtain, might be more appropriate, as long as you can still timewarp until you get the required amount of resources.(Perhaps there could be different kinds of resources and a limit of max resources), but an arbitrary time limit is no good.

[Javster]

Maybe you get an indicator in the VAB: This rocket will take X days to build

[Javster]

What kind of gameplay would be added by such a feature?

For example, you launch a rocket but it explodes, you go to the VAB and design a new one. But you can't launch it, you gotta stare at the screen blankly for X minutes until you can. (Or design other vehicles in VAB/SPA, or control a craft already in orbit if you have any)

Absolutely no point in such addon unless you're extremely hardcore and willing to put such (realistic) restrictions which have no contribution to gameplay.

On the other hand, a system for career where launches cost resources, and those resources might take time to recharge/re-obtain, might be more appropriate, as long as you can still timewarp until you get the required amount of resources.(Perhaps there could be different kinds of resources and a limit of max resources), but an arbitrary time limit is no good.

You wouldn't ACTUALLY wait 5 minutes. The game time would advance by 5 minutes.

[Brotoro]

I've always thought it was very unrealistic that I could keep popping up rockets one right after another. But it's not the time I actually spend in the VAB view that concerns me (since it is sometimes less than a minute to make a little change to the rocket), but the fact that there is no GAME-TIME delay between deciding to fly and having your rocket appear on the launch pad. Time should really pass in the game to account for the delay it would take to move your rocket out to the pad. One of the things that differentiated the U.S. And Soviet space programs early on was that NASA stacked their rockets on the launch pad, so it took a number of days to recycle the pad and get the next Gemini ready to fly a rendezvous mission, whereas the Soviets rolled their rockets out to the pad whole on rail transporters, so they could launch Vostoks a shorter time apart.

[Odo]

I think that's an awesome idea. and instead of building your rockets in the vab, you gotta make the blueprints in R&D building then open it in vab and the engineers will start making it and itlll be done in X amount of time. x amount of parts decides how much time it takes.

[Superfluous J]

I'm not a fan of the idea. I LIKE that I can launch a space station, then immediately launch whatever is going to dock with it.

So much in this game is limited by the fact that you can only do one thing at a time. Can't we PRETEND that there are at least a few people in the space center who are NOT me, who are building these things while I'm getting Jeb into a Munar orbit?

Though being able to launch up through the falling debris of the previous failed mission is probably a bit much

[jfjohnny5]

Wow. I'm amazed at how polarizing this topic is. People are basically claiming they love it or they hate it.

Here's some elaboration: I don't think the build delay should be part of Sandbox. That should always be instant. But if I'm going to be doing things like training astronauts, managing my budget, coordinating and planning missions, conducting R&D - doing so many of the things that go along with managing and operating a space agency, I think time should definitely be a factor. I'm not advocating sitting there "staring at the screen." I think either time warp or an automatic advancement of the game clock would create the same effect: the universe doesn't wait for you. Time is a HUGE factor in when to launch, how efficient your course is, and when you can rendezvous. Time should be central to pretty much everything.

As to what it adds to gameplay? Well, having to think ahead and plan is central to success in any type of game with a strategy. As the career mode starts to take shape, I don't think it's a far stretch to say that KSP is adding a strategy element to the game. Sandbox mode is definitely for casual play. Put it together and see what happens. But I think Career is going to be looking toward adding more strategic depth, while still being accessible. I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised.

[boxman]

what, the loading screens aren't long enough?

In all seriousness, no, At least make it a toggable option

I think he talks about time passing in game and not in real time, so should not make the building process any harder or longer for you.

[boxman]

Horrible idea. This only works in those ****ty mobile pay to win apps where you have a limited amount of energy which slowly recharges and can be instantly filled with those buyable coins/etc.

Really?? I guess you are against the planned/cost money feature as well?? Right now there is no challenge at all for experienced users, but things like costs and time would actually add some challenge.

[boxman]

Wow. I'm amazed at how polarizing this topic is. People are basically claiming they love it or they hate it.

Here's some elaboration: I don't think the build delay should be part of Sandbox. That should always be instant. But if I'm going to be doing things like training astronauts, managing my budget, coordinating and planning missions, conducting R&D - doing so many of the things that go along with managing and operating a space agency, I think time should definitely be a factor. I'm not advocating sitting there "staring at the screen." I think either time warp or an automatic advancement of the game clock would create the same effect: the universe doesn't wait for you. Time is a HUGE factor in when to launch, how efficient your course is, and when you can rendezvous. Time should be central to pretty much everything.

As to what it adds to gameplay? Well, having to think ahead and plan is central to success in any type of game with a strategy. As the career mode starts to take shape, I don't think it's a far stretch to say that KSP is adding a strategy element to the game. Sandbox mode is definitely for casual play. Put it together and see what happens. But I think Career is going to be looking toward adding more strategic depth, while still being accessible. I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised.

Judging by the comments I dont think most people who disagree even realize that this is about in game time. They seem to think that this feature will stop them from launching when they want when in fact it is just time inside game which passes, which is something that to me would instead make the game more immersive since that is how it works in real life.

It is much more weird and unrealistic how it is always the same day/time of day after spending a long time working on your ship.

[sarcazmotron3040]

I've been using Kerbal Alarm clock mod to "simulate" the construction times of craft, and retrieval of manned craft. With Mission Controller I get the cost and use $1/sec to determine when the craft is ready to launch. For craft retrieval, it's distance from KSC in meters for every second before I can retrieve the craft.