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akron

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    [WIP] Coatl Aerospace ProbesPlus Dev Thread [Beta] 10/19/2020 (1.8-1.10)

    in KSP1 Mod Development

    Posted

    On 2/14/2020 at 11:00 PM, redmonddkgamer said:

    When can we expect official functionality for 1.8.x?

    It should already be mostly functional, with updated dependencies. I am running it in 1.8 in my test install

    18 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

    It works already, I'm more interested in when we'll see proper foil with the revamp (it's not entirely clear whether that's the case on the pics). :)  

    I have not done any new foil textures, but will likely have to at some point. I am staying away from all the texture switching, it's too much work to make it look good

    [WIP] Coatl Aerospace ProbesPlus Dev Thread [Beta] 10/19/2020 (1.8-1.10)

    in KSP1 Mod Development

    Posted

    8 hours ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

    Good to see this mod is still going! Any chance that the version(s) on CKAN can be updated as well when the new version comes out? CKAN currently lists 16.1 as compatible with KSP 1.4.3 when I've used it extensively in KSP 1.7.3 with no problems, and it forms an important part of a career game I have going.

    That new probe core looks pretty big when compared to the other parts (antennas etc) in those images, and absolutely HUGE compared to Barquetta!

    Just floating a suggestion- any chance you can make a really really small cube-sat type probe, roughly the size of the cubic octagonal strut? There don't seem to be very many cube-sats in KSP and they would be ideal for sticking onto larger vessels then detaching at a destination to use as extra relays.

    Thank you. I do not actively update CKAN but whenever a full new release version of the mod is available, I am sure CKAN will update. For now I am just uploading changes to Github.

    I have thought about cubesat-type probes but there's just no real purpose for them in KSP at the moment. Their small size also brings the challenge of perhaps not being able to attach surface-mounted parts to them. The compromise would be to unrealistically enlarge them a bit for gameplay reasons. If I ever do any, I would probably go that route so they are easier to deal with in the VAB. That being said, the lack of real functionality in-game as of right now means I am not likely to make any soon unless you guys want to make a case for them. I would like to make a version of the Mars MarCO probes but those were larger cubesats

    Career/Science Overhaul

    in KSP1 Suggestions & Development Discussion

    Posted

    7 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

    Nice re-imagining of an overall similar system that takes care of some things in stock that feel unsatisfying. This would be interesting to play-test, at least.

    I see the core of the game as building in the VAB/SPH, launching, flying, and landing, so I would want to understand the impact on those activities. Would I choose different missions? Would I design craft differently? Would I concern myself with new or different things during maneuvering or landing? If this would mainly add screens to the KSC and require more clicking but leave the basic experience unchanged, then I would probably decline to install it.

    Well, I think it would tweak missions quite a bit. If you are collecting samples, you now have to return them safely. Sample return missions and/or mobile labs become more important, since parts for in-situ science would be expensive/heavy/inaccurate.

    As far as the science teams and the research aspect, it just makes the game more strategic. There's more choices and risk-rewards scenarios. You also have to allocate funding and decide when to task your research teams, which will be limited resource. It also would have the side effect of slowing down progression because even if you can collect samples very quickly, you cannot research their science or develop new nodes instantaneously. 

    Career/Science Overhaul

    in KSP1 Suggestions & Development Discussion

    Posted · Edited by akron

    9 minutes ago, PositronLance001 said:

    good idea! might be to complicated for beginners though...

    Possibly. I personally don't find it more complicated than a mod like SCANsat though.

    Let me expand, it may be complex, but it is also intuitive. At least to me. Also, a lot of the stuff on the flowcharts happens behind the scenes 

    Career/Science Overhaul

    in KSP1 Suggestions & Development Discussion

    Posted · Edited by akron
    Formatting

    I hope I won't be accidentally double posting this, but I do not remember sharing my idea for a more involved Career/Science System I made half a year ago.

    The following could potentially be handled as a mod, but I am hoping with some feedback and refinement, it could be worthy of a future update since Career Mode and Science desperately need changes. The following Science Manifesto tackles that, along with changes to the Admin Building and Tech Tree.

    Copied from a PDF I wrote:

    THE SCIENCE MANIFESTO: CAREER OVERHAUL

    SCIENCE TYPES


    Instead of a generic “Science”, it would be split into 3 science types or “currencies”: Biology, Chemistry, and Material. Different science experiments can provide a varying degree of each. Generic instruments could provide all three, while more specialized would only provide one or two. The purpose of the different science currencies would still be used to unlock tech nodes, which now cost different amounts of each. It could also be used for contracts or for events (more on those later)

    J3ux0Gf.png
    Biology, Chemistry, and Material Science

     

    CHANGES TO EXPERIMENT RESULTS


    Experiment results are no longer abstracted. You no longer receive a ScienceDef result immediately after running an experiment. Instead, you receive one of two new result types: Data or Sample

    • Data: Functions very similar to how science results are treated now. Experiments that generate number values (Thermometer, Barometer, etc.) will create a “Data” result. Data results can be transmitted via the CommNet system
    • Samples: Experiments that collect a physical substance (Drills, soil scoops, gas chromatographs, etc) generate a “Sample.” Samples cannot be transmitted via CommNet, but you can run a second experiment on a Sample to convert it into Data, which you can then transmit.

    Converting a Sample into Data destroys the sample, leaving only the Data result. One sample could be run through different experiments and be converted into different kinds of data. Here could be some Sample Types:

    • Atmospheric: Air or gaseous substances collected anywhere on a planetary body
    • Soil: Ground sample collected anywhere on a body while “landed”
    • Rock: Geologic sample collected from either specific biomes or from terrain scatters
    • Liquid: Collected while “Splashed Down”
    • Particle: A more complex sample that could be collected anywhere in the solar system. Such as solar wind plasma, Neutrinos, comet tail particles, etc.

    Samples can be collected and stored or moved. I am thinking is a KIS-style manner, where each takes up space and has mass. Different storage parts could be made to storage different kinds of and/or amounts of samples. Parts could be configured to spawn with a sample already in its inventory, such as to ship experiments to orbital labs (Plant growth, Material bay, etc.)

    Upon either transmitting, or returning the sample you will receive a science notification. The menu for this can be set very similarly to how contracts are now. An icon on the GUI can be added for science result logs and would flash once a new result is obtained from either a transmitted Data result, or a completed research project (See: R&D Building, Science Teams). It is from the new menu that you will obtain ScienceDef results, instead of when the experiment is first run.

    SCIENCE PART TYPES


    Science parts can now be more specialized. Parts could even be used only to collect samples, without providing any data, or to do both:

    • Collector: These parts could run and generate a sample depending on the condition and biome of the craft. The Sample is added to an internal inventory where it can be moved to be worked on.
    • Film Camera: Takes images and generates a “sample” film that must be returned
    • Digital Camera: More advanced Camera that can develop or take digital pictures which are created as “Data” instead
    • Instruments: These science parts take measurements of the environment or craft conditions, which are created as “Data”
    • Labs: Lab parts take an input Sample, examine it (destroying it in the process) and converts it into “Data” that can then be transmitted

    R&D BUILDING


    The R&D Building now has four sections instead of the current two:

    • Archives: Functions as it does now (Or can be removed)
    • Warehouse: Stores samples collected during missions that return to Kerbin. Samples can be discarded sold, or moved to the Research Lab for analysis. The Warehouse Inventory can be accessed from the VAB/SPH or nearby in the world (Like KIS) to transfer returned samples back to a craft, if needed.
    • Research Lab: Science teams in the research lab can analyze samples from the Warehouse for a much greater science return than in-situ experiments. You can run an in-depth analysis for each of the Science types (Bio, Chem, and Mat). Each analysis destroys the sample as part of the research, and subsequent runs of the same analysis on samples from the same biome yield vastly diminishing returns and/or take longer.
      • In addition to increased science returns, sample research/analysis from a Research Lab has a chance to trigger an event. Events can be beneficial, detrimental, or preferably provide a number of player choices. For example, a sample from Duna could be found to potentially have micro-organisms. You could have the choice of exposing them to radiation or some other substance. Each choice would have an associated cost and either a randomized result, or a specific one depending on the sample and the Event. Events can be wildly different with different choices, and the percentage of each could be adjusted as to be less randomized.
    • Development Lab: The development lab is the Tech Tree/Technology tab as it is in stock today. A couple of changes are that, like sample analysis, each node takes time to research. The cost of each node will now be one or more of the three new science types; depending on what it unlocks. Nodes for structural parts can cost more Material than other sciences, electrical or propulsion can cost more Chemistry, while manned or life support parts could cost more Biology.
      • Other desirable changes to the Tech Tree system could be implemented here as well. One such change is using nodes to unlocked upgrade technologies and not necessarily “parts” alone. Nodes could even research KSC building upgrades, or Kerbal abilities. A tech node can unlock a part such as a manned capsule. The capsule has built-in RCS and auto-pilot but both are locked. Two nodes later on the tech tree could then “unlock” the ability for new crafts with that capsule to use each the built-in RCS, or its probe core.

    SCIENCE TEAMS


    Both sample research and tech node research now take time and funds. Each active research takes a certain amount of funds per day to maintain research. Providing Additional or reduced funding will affect the time it takes to complete each project. Funding would be managed from the Admin Building, along with any other R&D Policies. Research Projects are done by Science Teams. KSC has one Science Team by default, plus one per level of the R&D Building for a total of four teams at the highest level. A science team can be assigned to either research a sample, or a tech tree node. Starting out, you may have both teams analyzing samples for early science gain, and then switch both to research tech nodes once enough is obtained.


    MOBILE PROCESSING LABS


    The MPL and other parts like it will function very similarly to the R&D Building in that it provides you with the same three sample analysis options. Instead of requiring funds, MPLs need to be crewed and provided with power (and maybe eventually life support). Each MPL will provide a new science team. The efficiency of the MPL will be based on the Kerbals’ experience, and the results based on the location similar to stock now. Perhaps MPLs could also research tech tree nodes, especially if the tech tree is expanded.

    EXPERIMENT RESULT FLOWCHARTS
    The following are flowcharts to show the process for running experiments and obtaining science.

    INSTRUMENT EXAMPLE
    In this example, a simple instrument part is run. This generates a “Data” result, which can then be transmitted via an antenna, or returned for the same science gain.

    uYdqJjf.jpg

    COLLECTOR AND LAB EXAMPLE
    This example shows a part used to collect a sample which is optionally returned to KSC, ran through and X-ray “lab” experiment, or a centrifuge. You would need to gather three samples with the soil collector in order to do all three options.

    gPNHQuY.jpg

     

    MULTI-SITE AND MPL EXAMPLE
    This more complex example shows the many options from collecting a sample physically with a Kerbal and then processing it through multiple different experiments. It also shows a possible Event triggered by running a sample analysis in the MPL.

    xmZSF6B.jpg

     

     

    I know it is a lot, but any thoughts or feedback?

    [WIP] Coatl Aerospace ProbesPlus Dev Thread [Beta] 10/19/2020 (1.8-1.10)

    in KSP1 Mod Development

    Posted · Edited by akron

    Mod Update

    Happy new year, folks!

    If you have been keeping up with recent news, you have heard me report that I unfortunately am not able to work on the mod frequently. I am continuing to push towards getting the time and motivation, but so far I take whatever progress I can get.

    At the suggestion of a couple of mod makers (mostly @CobaltWolf if I'm being honest) I have started to try and convert the art style of ProbesPlus! parts to something more neutral.

    To practice I started working on a new Commsat bus based on the SSL-1300 and a few accompanying parts. I was able to finish the bus and got it in-game, which is now the first new part of the new year! 

    The current plan is to finish the SSL-1300, or "Barça" as it is called in-game, while using the learned techniques from it for Viking. This could change, but after Viking, Barça, and a couple of rover parts I really want to make, the mod might be considered "Complete". I will still revamp old parts, but I don't think I can take on any new ones. With KSP2 on the horizon and no KSP1 Career/Science overhaul planned I am not sure it's a great idea to take on anything else. Again, this could change but it seems better to play it safe.

    Anywho, this is now the largest bus in the mod, Barquetta's older sibling:

    yVdRT8f.png Xf0jaWA.png SwxRM1l.png ZiXi53t.png

    Some parts are from the amazing Restock and Near Future Solar mods

     

    Coming to Github soon, I do have to tweak a fix some things to make sure that the mod works properly in 1.8.1

     

    ~Cheers

    [WIP] Coatl Aerospace ProbesPlus Dev Thread [Beta] 10/19/2020 (1.8-1.10)

    in KSP1 Mod Development

    Posted

    Hello all.

    Apologies for the lack of updates. I have unfortunately not been able to dedicate time to KSP in well over a month. My already limited time got further taken away now that I am a single parent, so I've pretty much had to put things on further hold. I am still working on trying to clear out some time weekly to get back to KSP work because it's one of my passions (and I miss it!)

    In the meantime, do continue to post about any issues, suggestions, feedback, smart remarks, or kind words of encouragement. I will still try to be active in responding here, especially now that I can again reply while away from home.

    [WIP] Coatl Aerospace ProbesPlus Dev Thread [Beta] 10/19/2020 (1.8-1.10)

    in KSP1 Mod Development

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Jesse-Lacey said:

    With the release of 1.8 I decided to start checking my mods to see what's broken with the big update and it would seem something with ProbesPlus! Or it's dependencies is causing an issue during the load screen. I get stuck at verifying expansion: breaking ground. So I just wanted to let you know there seems to be something going on there.

     

    Thanks for all the hard work!

    New KSP version releases are pretty much guaranteed to break mods. So, yes, it is likely a dependency.

    Just an FYI, for those trying to get the latest version of things, always download the latest Github repo for the absolute newest stuff. Even though it has not been updated in a bit, it is still the latest version of the mod's files. I am not going to be updating other mod sites with alpha releases, including bug fixes, because it is just too cumbersome and will get confusing.

    [WIP] Coatl Aerospace ProbesPlus Dev Thread [Beta] 10/19/2020 (1.8-1.10)

    in KSP1 Mod Development

    Posted

    On 9/17/2019 at 3:55 PM, TheKSPBeginner said:

    What happened to the rovers? Are they in development?

    Like @sslaptnhablhat said, they're planned but not in active development.

    8 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

    Just wondering, approx. how long til release?

    Honestly could not tell you. Been super busy and a little bit discouraged by I think the fact that KSP won't really let me do the mission like I really want to.

    In all honestly if anyone is willing to take a look at what they might be able to do to replicate Viking's Biology experiments in KSP, whether it be new code or using another mod to add functionality, I would be forever grateful. I absolutely do not want the science suite to be just a right-click thing.

    8 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

    Neat, is it a redone Lahar?

    Probably, I hadn't thought about when I made it but I think it's the right fit. 

    Kerbal Space Program 2: Master Post

    in 2019

    Posted

    Lovely surprise!

    I am just hoping that there's an in-depth career mode progression and more interactive science, not just a right-click menu option. KSP can teach you orbital mechanics and physics without your realizing. I would love if the same approach was taken to other things like astronomy, chemistry, biology, and planetary sciences. 

    I did notice a strange lack of unmanned vehicles showcased in the trailer and dev video. Looks like I'll be busy

    [WIP] Coatl Aerospace ProbesPlus Dev Thread [Beta] 10/19/2020 (1.8-1.10)

    in KSP1 Mod Development

    Posted

    On 7/29/2019 at 5:22 AM, JediRangerkendor said:

    I was gonna just go see if the 1.4.* worked, but after seeing that, I think I will wait until I can get this update! Here is to hoping that it is coming out very very soon!

    Viking is still a little ways out. If you want to get a head start with the current release, use the Github repo and not the last release.

    4 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

    I'm running Coatl in a 1.71 game with no noticeable problems. Just wanted to stop by to say thanks for your work, I've used Coatl in all my games and its parts always play a large role in my probe designs.

    Amazing, thank you!

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