[WIP, 1.0.5] Stock Replacement Assets 0.4 [25 Feb]

[SmashBrown]

I will be keeping an eye on this. Good luck! Also, please rotate the mk1-2 pod a little bit like ven did. I cant stand that the hatch is offset.

[passinglurker]

I wouldn't call "I don't like that look" a kneejerk backlash. Also saying someone shouldn't do somthing because people would be "offended" (What does this even mean in this context...) is a bit silly.

Eh, Vens making some questionable design decisions. First was making the tomato heat sheilds, then the brick Vernors and a few paint-bucket colored parts. I kinda stopped following when I saw engines have big hazard symbols as if we didn't already know that the engines contained enginey bits.

But this isn't really the place to discuss Vens stuff.

I would call it knee jerk because there are usually underlying reasons or common excuses people use to justify thier opinion. Also He could have had the reasons said above and easily said "I just don't like the look" because I called out the usual mob behavior commenting 4 nozzle srb's early

Any way I didn't mean hooj shouldn't in order to avoid offence I meant that offence is unavoidable so he can do what he wants the results will all be roughly the same.

[Tankman101]

Also He could have had the reasons said above and easily said "I just don't like the look" because I called out the usual mob behavior commenting 4 nozzle srb's early

Might want to tone down the Catch 22 a bit .

Any way I didn't mean hooj shouldn't in order to avoid offence I meant that offence is unavoidable so he can do what he wants the results will all be roughly the same.

Fair enough, I must have read wrong.

http://i.imgur.com/NJGeSaX.png

That decoupler design is amazing. It really needs to be made somewhere.

[nothingSpecial]

I like this so much. I-...

I look forward for progress.

[SmallFatFetus]

Hey, do you want some help with this? I'm working on an X-1 like cockpit to fill the place of the current mk1 cockpit when 1.1 comes out, and it seems like it would mesh well with this mod. I'll go ahead and PM you the model, texture and a render shortly.

Capsule looks great by the way!

[DGatsby]

Much excite! That is a beautiful Mk1 you've got there.

[theonegalen]

I like it. Keep going.

[RyanRising]

I love this idea. I think Ven's Revamp is a bit too much and this is just a nice model update rather than a complete redesign. The pod not only looks good, but makes sense now!

Speaking of making sense, when you get to the mk1-2 pod, please consider making the ladder aligned with other ladder placements. I know it's changing stuff, but I strongly believe that it's a change for the better.

[passinglurker]

I love this idea. I think Ven's Revamp is a bit too much and this is just a nice model update rather than a complete redesign. The pod not only looks good, but makes sense now!

Speaking of making sense, when you get to the mk1-2 pod, please consider making the ladder aligned with other ladder placements. I know it's changing stuff, but I strongly believe that it's a change for the better.

As much as I'd agree how would that work with the "lines up with the iva" rule? The rule would have to be broken, or a new iva would have to be made, or an alternate iva would have to be acquired from an existing or abandoned mod.

[TyrannoFan]

Maybe there's a way to rotate the current mk1-2 pod's IVA view? Don't really know how any of this works...

[passinglurker]

Maybe there's a way to rotate the current mk1-2 pod's IVA view? Don't really know how any of this works...

Well at the very least with hooj going in order of appearance on the tech tree it'll be a while so plenty of time for an enterprising individual to either make a new iva that fits in the mk1-2's dimensions, or aquire permission to use another modders iva if one exists or we could just ignore the problem after all despite demand most users don't actually use the iva it's just a small touch to them.

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

This looks really promising! I've never used Ven's redo because it changed too much, and all the other mods that attempted to match stock (like RLA!) suddenly looked out of place. But you're right, the rocket parts are rapidly becoming the worst looking assets in the game. That's what prompted me to start making my own parts, though a year later they still aren't done, and I'm glad some other people see the same thing.

What are you going to do about the 2.5m tanks? Those oil drums are the worst offenders of the bunch. I'd suggest giving them (orange included) a black & white stripe theme like the size one and three tanks, to make rockets combining them look more cohesive.

I like your "same node size" rule, but one exception I would make is the 2.5m decoupler. That thing is huge.

Edit: regarding the MkI texture, I think convention would have the 'inside' docking port texture on the endcaps. Especially since it doesn't need to be a heat shield now.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Starbuckminsterfullerton

[Tankman101]

I like your "same node size" rule, but one exception I would make is the 2.5m decoupler. That thing is huge.

Honestly if that decoupler was given a better texture/model and made flush with the rocket, I wouldn't mind it being as big as it is.

[passinglurker]

This looks really promising! I've never used Ven's redo because it changed too much, and all the other mods that attempted to match stock (like RLA!) suddenly looked out of place. But you're right, the rocket parts are rapidly becoming the worst looking assets in the game. That's what prompted me to start making my own parts, though a year later they still aren't done, and I'm glad some other people see the same thing.

What are you going to do about the 2.5m tanks? Those oil drums are the worst offenders of the bunch. I'd suggest giving them (orange included) a black & white stripe theme like the size one and three tanks, to make rockets combining them look more cohesive.

I like your "same node size" rule, but one exception I would make is the 2.5m decoupler. That thing is huge.

Edit: regarding the MkI texture, I think convention would have the 'inside' docking port texture on the endcaps. Especially since it doesn't need to be a heat shield now.

I dunno cohesiveness certainly has its appeal, and its very efficient with the ram to not just have one diameter of tanks but all the tanks on the same sheet, but it also makes finding the tank you want a pain because they all look the same from the part catalog(I did this a lot when I used vens). Of course we could do what necrobones does with one of his fuel tank mods and just color code the end caps... would that be enough?... I guess I'm just fishing for an excuse to advocate for dark 1.25m tanks(like the mk1pod), shiny bare metal 2.5m tanks(like the current ones but not looking like junky oildrums more like mercury-atlas or early scifi), and light 3.75m tanks (or something like that just so its all easy to tell apart) it all depends on hooj's tastes and how far he wants to take this efficiency thing there is certainly room to take the 1 sheet per size route and still beat out stock, but why just beat stock on efficiency when you can utterly destroy it? I'll make my case for different styles for different diameters, but will accept whatever ultimately happens.

Edited August 28, 2015 by passinglurker

[NathanKell]

Given the style Porkjet transformed the engines into, can't wait to see what you come up for them.

(Especially if you go Ven's "buttless/butt" route so that engines can be used sans butt)

[Whirligig Girl]

Why? You can just install RLA separately it's no big deal..

To replace the Oscar-B tank and the Stack separator, not to add the extra tanks.

[passinglurker]

To replace the Oscar-B tank and the Stack separator, not to add the extra tanks.

Those are parts that were added earlier into the tree to accommodate RLA's own ballance. Not everyone will install both at once and I imagine it would be confusing if they looked the same when they do.

[Whirligig Girl]

Those are parts that were added earlier into the tree to accommodate RLA's own ballance. Not everyone will install both at once and I imagine it would be confusing if they looked the same when they do.

Well then it's simple, change their location in the tech tree when RLA is installed.

[passinglurker]

Well then it's simple, change their location in the tech tree when RLA is installed.

That's trading reliability for convenience and it tends to be what turns people away from big mm overwrite mods and ckan. If squad changed the tree later and this mod wan't kept upto date quickly those mm configs would keep shifting the stock parts to their old spots. Its a simple fix yes but doing it once opens a door to doing it a lot and when you do it a lot you have to fix it a lot when it breaks and that while still simple becomes very very tedious. Its simpler and more reliable for RLA to have its own parts to suit its own needs besides they are small texture shared parts they don't take up any extra space ram wise

Edited August 28, 2015 by passinglurker

[Gaalidas]

Given the style Porkjet transformed the engines into, can't wait to see what you come up for them.

(Especially if you go Ven's "buttless/butt" route so that engines can be used sans butt)

There's a "butt" joke in there that I'm trying, desperately, to resist expressing.

[CalculusWarrior]

There's a "butt" joke in there that I'm trying, desperately, to resist expressing.

Wut wut?

Seriously, this looks most excellent, I'm going to keep my eye on this...

[RyanRising]

As much as I'd agree how would that work with the "lines up with the iva" rule? The rule would have to be broken, or a new iva would have to be made, or an alternate iva would have to be acquired from an existing or abandoned mod.

I say worth it, but that's for the OP to decide.

EDIT: Worth it for the IVA hatch to be in the wrong place, I mean. I don't expect a new IVA.

Edited August 28, 2015 by RyanRising
Clarity. The post below me expresses my sentiments best about the hatch placement.

[NecroBones]

For the IVA, we're mainly talking about the hatch location, right? Personally, I could live with the hatch being in the "wrong" place relative to the IVA. It's the window alignment that I think needs to work.

[passinglurker]

For the IVA, we're mainly talking about the hatch location, right? Personally, I could live with the hatch being in the "wrong" place relative to the IVA. It's the window alignment that I think needs to work.

I've actually been racking my brain over IVA design ever since RyanRising said that. Designing an IVA for a big 3 man pod is a lot harder than an IVA for a cramped 1 man pod it turns out(cramped 1man is easy, kerbal against the back wall, hatch and window above his head, and fill empty space with controls) assuming you're designing the iva like it was a craft for the real world where it doesn't have to work in all orientations under gravity just upright the stock pod gets a few things right already like putting the kerbals against the back wall(which becomes the floor when upright under gravity) the triangle configuration is also pretty ideal as it helps distribute the crews mass evenly while not blocking any crew transfer hatches(unlike a real world pod this things is built to let the crew transfer out of both the front and the back! because who knows how the player is gonna put it together?)

While it gets things right in terms of both realism and kerbal specific building it also gets things wrong in both categories. In terms of realism the hatch is too high with no ladder on the inside so there is no way for the kerbals to get in and out under gravity. It should be the height of a kerbal clamber from the floor/backwall of the pod max and while we are moving it down might as well orient it with the rest of the ladders and hatches in the game. in terms of kerbal specific building as others have pointed the windows interfere with symmetrically placing parts in a pleasing way. the simplest solution would be to axe them and replace them with a single window over the new hatch and maybe a few tantares sized port holes around the skirt if any "not in the way of symmetry" sweet spots can be found. the recessed forward windows are fine right?

I could probably model, UVmap, and prop-ify something like this even with my slow pace of work it would be done by the time hooj gets that far in the tech tree >.>

[RyanRising]

I've actually been racking my brain over IVA design ever since RyanRising said that. Designing an IVA for a big 3 man pod is a lot harder than an IVA for a cramped 1 man pod it turns out(cramped 1man is easy, kerbal against the back wall, hatch and window above his head, and fill empty space with controls) assuming you're designing the iva like it was a craft for the real world where it doesn't have to work in all orientations under gravity just upright the stock pod gets a few things right already like putting the kerbals against the back wall(which becomes the floor when upright under gravity) the triangle configuration is also pretty ideal as it helps distribute the crews mass evenly while not blocking any crew transfer hatches(unlike a real world pod this things is built to let the crew transfer out of both the front and the back! because who knows how the player is gonna put it together?)

While it gets things right in terms of both realism and kerbal specific building it also gets things wrong in both categories. In terms of realism the hatch is too high with no ladder on the inside so there is no way for the kerbals to get in and out under gravity. It should be the height of a kerbal clamber from the floor/backwall of the pod max and while we are moving it down might as well orient it with the rest of the ladders and hatches in the game. in terms of kerbal specific building as others have pointed the windows interfere with symmetrically placing parts in a pleasing way. the simplest solution would be to axe them and replace them with a single window over the new hatch and maybe a few tantares sized port holes around the skirt if any "not in the way of symmetry" sweet spots can be found. the recessed forward windows are fine right?

I could probably model, UVmap, and prop-ify something like this even with my slow pace of work it would be done by the time hooj gets that far in the tech tree >.>

I, uh, meant that it would be worth it for the IVA hatch to be in the wrong place. I have since edited my post for clarity. But if you'd like to do that, go crazy. I'd like to see your take on it.