Fengist

[1.1.2] WIP - Make it SINK - Alpha testers needed

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Make it Sink
Turn any stock vessel into a submarine.

 

For those of you who don't know me, I'm the original creator of The Maritime Pack found here:

Today, while goofing off, I stumbled onto something that was only partially intentional.  I believe, I have created parts that allows any STOCK vessel to become a submersible.  Hence the working title of this package, Make it Sink.

Here's the basics:  There are 3 parts.

  1. The ballast tank (compressed water)
  2. A water compressor/decompressor
  3. A dive computer

It works like this.  Place two (more or less if you're not using the dive computer) ballast tanks on each end of your vessel.  Place a compressor/decompressor and the optional dive computer anywhere you like.  Take your ship out to the ocean and start the compressor.  Depending on how large the vessel is, you should see it start to submerge as compressed water fills the ballast tanks.  To surface, start the decompressor. As compressed water is evacuated from the tanks, your vessel should rise.

To even the keel manually, you can move compressed water between the tanks by right clicking /alt-right clicking.

The dive computer is currently very early testing with this mod but it does work.  It was originally designed for the subs in the Maritime pack.  It's functions are:

  1. Auto keel  - if you have EXACTLY 2 ballast tanks, it will attempt to even the keel of the vessel so it's horizontal.  It's an agonizingly slow process so I recommend you get close manually before turning it on. (If anyone can tell me how to REALLY calculate center of buoyancy, I'm all ears). NOTE:  Your vessel should be stopped before engaging auto keel.
  2. Auto buoy - Will attempt to create and evacuate compressed water in order to achieve neutral buoyancy.  NOTE:  Your vessel should be stopped before engaging auto buoy.
  3. Blow ballast - Forcibly evacuates all the compressed water (ballast) causing you to surface.
  4. Sow Info - Shows the depth under the keel of the vessel and the current dive angle

If you want to see the active calculations, you can view a log in the FSMIS/Plugins/PluginData folder.  Look for the log file.

Currently, I've hobbled together some MK2 parts for testing (yea, the textures are funky but this is a parts/.dll test).  While they're sorta stockalike, they're color coded so you can spot them easily.

Some things to keep in mind:

  • Drag in water is horrendous.  Pack on extra thrust.
  • Speed in water is slow. If you're using air breathing engines, anticipate some extra air intakes to compensate for the low speeds

 

Please keep me informed in this thread of any issues or problems you encounter and thanks for testing it.

Current release is: FSMISr2.zip

DOWNLOAD

MISParts.jpg

 

WIth any luck you should achieve this:

MISTest1.jpg

Edited by Fengist

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I am proud to be a tester on this mod. I will be sure to share images and craft files, should they work.

Should I also delete the other items I kept from the Maritime Pack for 1.0.5?

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So I heard you need Alpha testers...

If you want me, I can help, although I can never be sure of exactly when I will be able to test it. It is the middle of June though, so I should have a fair amount of time for the next few months, although you should know that I will be unavailable next week, as I'm going on vacation to North Carolina.

Man, I could make so many things with reliable, functioning, versatile submarine parts...

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13 hours ago, Fengist said:

Today, while goofing off, I stumbled onto something that was only partially intentional.  I believe, I have created parts that allows any STOCK vessel to become a submersible.  Hence the working title of this package, Make it Sink.

3. A dive computer

To even the keel manually, you can move compressed water between the tanks by right clicking /alt-right clicking.

I was just starting to heavily play with the Sub Pack, when you went on "vacation", @Fengist...
I even started modelling my 1st part for a sub parts pack, when all that unfortunate business happened...And took the wind out of MY sails for working on sub parts, so I shelved it...

Anyway, the stuff quoted above was the single most issue I was having issues with... Even with the Sub Pack, I was finding it difficult to find a good balance point, so my craft would stay at least somewhat level, and a method for quickly and effectively altering dive depth...

Soooo good to see you back, ready to tackle this stuff so quickly... :)

i SOOOO wish i could commit to testing, but I'm having trouble keeping up with KSP modding obligations I already have... But you can bet I will be following this closely and with MUCH excitement... :)

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How about using the stock RCS module to aid in leveling, but with 'compressed water' instead of monoprop? The linear RCS ports could serve as an easy stand-in for the 'waterjet' outlets. They can work alongside the ballast tanks to help and speed up the leveling.

Another thing that may help: Diazo's Horizontal Landing Aid and Vertical Velocity Controller might have sections of code that can be put to use on this. He might even have some insights on how to do what you need.

 

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52 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

I am proud to be a tester on this mod. I will be sure to share images and craft files, should they work.

Should I also delete the other items I kept from the Maritime Pack for 1.0.5?

You can archive 1.0.5 if you wish, but I'm pretty sure it's still up on Curseforge for download.

You will need to delete all the the old Maritime Pack before installing the new one.

This test pack is a separate entity with a separate dll and shouldn't interfere with MP at all (unless you ram your boat with it).

27 minutes ago, Cornholio said:

I have been waiting for this....

Do you have plans for cylindrical ballast tanks and not just Mk2?

If it works absolutely.  All of those parts already exist in the Maritime Pack, I just never jammed them all onto one vessel and tried to sink it before. What you're seeing are 3 parts I quickly rammed through Unity in order to get something that looks more like a stock part than a Maritime Pack part.  Once we figure out if MK2 works, I'll tackle the tough nut of MK3, which are much larger and therefore, much more buoyant.  But I'm relatively sure, that if I keep tossing enough rocks onto a 'boat', it's gonna sink sooner or later.

30 minutes ago, pTrevTrevs said:

So I heard you need Alpha testers...

If you want me, I can help, although I can never be sure of exactly when I will be able to test it. It is the middle of June though, so I should have a fair amount of time for the next few months, although you should know that I will be unavailable next week, as I'm going on vacation to North Carolina.

Man, I could make so many things with reliable, functioning, versatile submarine parts...

No rush. I'm NOT going to dive into KSP to the level I was before. If it takes a week, it takes a week. If it takes 6 months, then it's 6 months.  RL > KSP.

@Stone Blue

Thanks, yea, getting buoyancy (especially center of buoyancy) calculated correctly is still a nightmare I'm dealing with.  And god forbid you ask Squad to explain it. @NathanKell will give you some cryptic answer like "CoM = CoL = CoP = Center of displacement (i.e. how we know how much is submerged) = center of buoyancy (where the buoyancy force is applied) = part origin, unless overridden (only a few parts override one or more of those)."  Which honestly makes no sense to me.  I'm sure Nathan knows what he's talking about but he's totally incapable of explaining it.

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@Fengist:

I have a couple of questions about the compressor/decompressor. Is there any way that you can make it hot-key-able (functions that can be assigned to 1-0)? This was a nice feature of the originals. I have a tendency to put a lot of these on subs, as I have been learning over the past year that the more you have, the faster you can actually ascend/descend.

I prefer the look of Mk 3 subs over Mk 2; are there plans to use something akin to the buoyancy blisters for eventual ballast tanks? Right now, the MK 2 tanks with the Mk 3 sub hull isn't working too well. My sub rolls over to the starboard side when diving by about 45 degrees. This could be because of the way I have the tanks inside cargo bays...

 

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2 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

I prefer the look of Mk 3 subs over Mk 2; are there plans to use something akin to the buoyancy blisters for eventual ballast tanks?

Hmmm... I JUST within the past few days, saw a new, small parts mod that had conformal, MK3 blister tanks... ???
They looked pretty decent...

 

Here's a couple crafts I was trying to play with, right after 1.0.5 originally dropped...But between not having a GOOD automatic blance/ballast sytem, AND trouble with stock buoyancy, they got shelved... Maybe these will be inspiration for people to try more sub stuff, tho:
 

The Keptune Mk1:

 

The Keptune Mk2:

 

The Kolaris Mk1:

Sorry the screenshot compositions arent better... I took these for specific details... One of them was to show the light throw of the Maritime ship & sub lights I had on them

Edited by Stone Blue

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@Stone Blue: You have shared yours, here's my latest project...

I'm hoping with this new mod, she'll be able to sail the high seas in style. I've got the missile launch system working alright enough... just have to work on surfacing/diving.

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@adsii1970 NOICE!! :D

You got further with yours than I did... I was going to a use a similar missile method on the Kolaris... But like I said, they got shelved...

Hmmm... Maybe someone should start a Submarine (craft) Showcase thread, like the one for Stations, the one for Spaceplanes, etc... if there is not one presently?.. Any takers?

Edited by Stone Blue

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I can't tag you, Stone Blue... the mobile page locks up. However, I'll be happy to drop the craft file for the missile into Dropbox, if you're interested!

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11 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

@Fengist:

I have a couple of questions about the compressor/decompressor. Is there any way that you can make it hot-key-able (functions that can be assigned to 1-0)? This was a nice feature of the originals. I have a tendency to put a lot of these on subs, as I have been learning over the past year that the more you have, the faster you can actually ascend/descend.

I prefer the look of Mk 3 subs over Mk 2; are there plans to use something akin to the buoyancy blisters for eventual ballast tanks? Right now, the MK 2 tanks with the Mk 3 sub hull isn't working too well. My sub rolls over to the starboard side when diving by about 45 degrees. This could be because of the way I have the tanks inside cargo bays...

 

Ya know, I haven't tried to set up action groups for the compressor/decompressor since I started merging the two into one. I gather, from what you're saying, it doesn't work.  I'll look into it.

If this all works, yep, I'll make some sort of surface mount ballast tank.

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@Fengist:

I want to let you know I think I might have found a bug with the computer. One of the things that I am bad about is seeing how many different uses I can find for parts. I decided to use the computer on a surface ship to keep track of depth under keel (this might make a great part addition to the Maritime Pack, by the way :wink:). So while constructing a new ship, I slapped one on.

As soon as the ship hit the water, I activated the computer and it did exactly what it was supposed to do, it began giving me depth under keel until it read ">5000 m" so at that point, I right clicked on the part, tried to toggle it off... and nothing happened. the part stayed on and continued to measure depth under the keel.

I decided to revert and remove the piece. as it would not disappear when I would use <ALT> + <F2> to hide the info screen data. So, I relaunched the vessel but the information screen was still there (see image below).

5QVz9WV.jpg

I decided to try other things. It remained on the screen and gave readouts to all land vehicles, aircraft, and sea-going vehicles even though the part had been deleted and the game reverted. I finally had to actually exit from KSP. Only when I exited KSP completely and then came back in did it disappear.

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Thanks @adsii1970

I just redid that GUI so it's entirely possible I goofed it.  I'll take another look at it.  Thanks for the bug report.

I could put one on ships just for an info kinda thing but here's one minor problem.  When it says depth > 1000m, it's because there's no bottom.  If you take a sub down below 1000m, you'll pass through the planet's mesh and be inside the planet.  The visible terrain will be there.  The deepest visible terrain on any planet is -1000m.  The mesh isn't.  Dunno if you've tried taking one of the MP subs to that depth but I have a hard limit of I think 950m.  If you hit that depth and try to go below it, the sub will get pushed back up.  There's a .xml in the plugin sub directory that sets that limit.  You can edit that xml and go below 950 should you wish.  Now, why's that a problem?  A lot of Kerbin's depths are below 1000m.  It'll read that a lot until you get close to shore.

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@Fengist Hi just tried out your modules on custom hull, and have found as the poster before me that the dive computer gui once spawned is not being destroyed when the part is,  this effects every vessel, all show the DC gui but non of them have or have had it fitted. Did have a check in the log but nothing leapt out at me, as the obvious cause,

Edited by SpannerMonkey(smce)

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1 hour ago, Fengist said:

Thanks @adsii1970

I just redid that GUI so it's entirely possible I goofed it.  I'll take another look at it.  Thanks for the bug report.

I could put one on ships just for an info kinda thing but here's one minor problem.  When it says depth > 1000m, it's because there's no bottom.  If you take a sub down below 1000m, you'll pass through the planet's mesh and be inside the planet... 

[edited by adsii1970 for relevant content]

@Fengist: Thanks.  Let me know when you're ready for me to test this again.

The MAIN reason I wanted to slap one on a ship is to find a decent shallow to use as an anchorage when on tours of duty. I use the winches off KAS with the anchor heads and there has been a couple of occasions where the depth was deeper than it appeared. At some point, as I do not remember the exact depth, the winch was pulled completely off the ship! So, in the case of the URKN Harvester Kerman, the only ship to use the computer as a device to measure depth for the sole purpose of finding a anchorage that was between 15 and 20 meters deep. For this purpose, it did just what it needs to do.

I've never made a part, and if I knew what I was doing, I could see some device, maybe a little box with some sort of sonar looking antennae that could serve as this purpose. I could try and create one, but I would need some pointers on designing parts...

 

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My ability to teach is virtually non-existent.  However:

Once upon a time, @Beale had that tutorial on the old KSP blogs.  I stumbled onto it one day, followed his instructions and made his engine. I think Maritime now has some 40 parts and I'm making plugins... and I blame BEALE for every single bit of it!

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13 hours ago, Fengist said:

Once upon a time, @Beale had that tutorial on the old KSP blogs.  I stumbled onto it one day, followed his instructions and made his engine. I think Maritime now has some 40 parts and I'm making plugins... and I blame BEALE for every single bit of it!

Here, Here... :)
I also used that tutorial to make my 1st EVER, 3d part, for ANY game... I've since started using Blender (though I'm having issues, and looking for alternatives...Might ven go back to Wings3D)... But, yeah, the tutorial is so well written, most of the techniques carry over to other software, as well... :D

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hiya, tried the modules on some other things with mixed results, if the items are identical in every way, the DC works as intended, any variation in buoyancy between parts, this includes parts attached to the module containing part, seems to defeat the DC completely, ending with terminal pitch issues. 

(Science/Engineering warning) I also have a small pedantic niggle, that  being the water compressor. Water is universally regarded as being incompressible , fair enough if you had an infinite amount of force you could compress it, but to do that you would need an infinitely strong container in which to do so. Just ask any marine engineer about hydraulic lock. This happens when in infernal combustion engine by means of failure or error ingests a small amount of water, this usually results in instant engine lock up on small engines with a bent con rod or two, or in the case of high power engines large bits of the insides ending up on the outside, generally regarded as a bad thing.  So how would you feel about just calling it a pump? I know it doesn't sound half as cool as a "compressor" but it would stave off any more pedantic gripes

 

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22 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

hiya, tried the modules on some other things with mixed results, if the items are identical in every way, the DC works as intended, any variation in buoyancy between parts, this includes parts attached to the module containing part, seems to defeat the DC completely, ending with terminal pitch issues. 

(Science/Engineering warning) I also have a small pedantic niggle, that  being the water compressor. Water is universally regarded as being incompressible , fair enough if you had an infinite amount of force you could compress it, but to do that you would need an infinitely strong container in which to do so. Just ask any marine engineer about hydraulic lock. This happens when in infernal combustion engine by means of failure or error ingests a small amount of water, this usually results in instant engine lock up on small engines with a bent con rod or two, or in the case of high power engines large bits of the insides ending up on the outside, generally regarded as a bad thing.  So how would you feel about just calling it a pump? I know it doesn't sound half as cool as a "compressor" but it would stave off any more pedantic gripes

 

Yea, the DC is really, really crude.  Since Squad makes things like finding the length of a vessel next to impossible, and they base their calculations on the center of buoyancy, which is not easy to find either (I still haven't found it), what you see is what you get for now.

And I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but my interest in physics is... above normal.  Mostly of the quantum variety (I read Michio Kaku whilst sitting on the toilet).  I'm WELL aware of the fact that water is considered incompressible.  I was well aware of that when I came up with the idea for calling it that.  My reason: I enjoy watching people with a penchant for science wrestle with the idea that I'm suggesting the impossible in an environment where nothing else even comes close to mimicking real-world physics anyway.

My next mod will introduce anti-matter in a cellophane containment field.

gotcha...

Edited by Fengist

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21 minutes ago, Fengist said:

v smart reply

Yeah gotcha indeed. i wont mention it again :P

As for the Dc, it's no substitute for a bit of intelligence, as you mentioned in your release thread, and admittedly I was deliberately screwing with it.  Been messing with subs since 0.16  I just thought I'd give this a whirl see if it made the trimming any easier (which isn't hard if you know the craft) I'd say it'd be great for someone new to subs in general, giving an idea of what it takes to achieve a decent balance.

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1 hour ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Yeah gotcha indeed. i wont mention it again :P

As for the Dc, it's no substitute for a bit of intelligence, as you mentioned in your release thread, and admittedly I was deliberately screwing with it.  Been messing with subs since 0.16  I just thought I'd give this a whirl see if it made the trimming any easier (which isn't hard if you know the craft) I'd say it'd be great for someone new to subs in general, giving an idea of what it takes to achieve a decent balance.

So ummm... yea.  I just looked over the code for the plugin.  And I figured out why the info screen wasn't going away... and I fixed that (I hope).  Which led me to another bug... and another... and another... and I came to realize, the computer wasn't working AT ALL this whole time.

None of it.  The info screen showed up but that was it.  Clicking on the other buttons resulted in the dreaded nullref.  Sooo... I fixed things (I hope) and I've uploaded a new release r2 which you can get from the download link in the OP.  You should just be able to unzip and overwrite the previous one.

I also turned on some logging.  Once you have a vessel up and running with the computer, you can go to the FSMIS/Plugins/PluginData directory and you can find a MISLog.dat.  That's a text file that shows some of the calculations that the computer is working on while it's running.  It will also show some errors, like if you run out of battery while using the computer.

Thanks for the bug reports and let me know how bad this one is.

Edited by Fengist

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Have you already uploaded the new version?

--updated by adsii1970--

Never mind. This is what happens when you try and read forum posts after reading some really bad term papers. My apologies.

 

Edited by adsii1970

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