linuxgurugamer

[1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.2] RCS Build Aid Continued - New Dependencies

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Just to throw in my two cents, this is an incredible mod.  I've been using this for years now, and consider it to be on a very short list of absolutely essential mods for my KSP experience.  I can't over-emphasize how thankful I am for everyone involved in writing and updating this.

<3

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14 hours ago, EvermoreAlpaca said:

Just to throw in my two cents, this is an incredible mod.  I've been using this for years now, and consider it to be on a very short list of absolutely essential mods for my KSP experience.  I can't over-emphasize how thankful I am for everyone involved in writing and updating this.

<3

Same here! Thank to all involved in development and maintenance... ;)

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I'm content playing a fully-stock build, as long as I have this and DPAI.  Trying to balance RCS manually can sometimes get a little tricky on unusually shaped modules - this has helped me to tweak placement (and sometimes construction) just a tiny bit to make sure things handle properly when docking.  Assembling space stations is much easier when I've built them with the aid of this plugin.  Thanks for keeping it alive!

Edited by HeadHunter67

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Hi, I recently started playing KSP again. This time with Realism Overhaul, which contains RCS Build Aid Continued.

At first, this mod seemed pretty useful. But it looks like it is either broken or there is something wrong on my side.

In short, the numbers do not seem to make sense. Craft file and screenshots are included in the .zip file.

To be sure, I tested this also with stock KSP (Only RCS Build Aid installed through CKAN.) but got the same results.

Game version: 1.3.1.1891_en-us_x64

Premise:
The craft Im using for this test (.craft file included) should be symmetrical in all 3 axis, including the RCS placement. In such a case the numbers shown and effects of RCS should be the same for all uses, be it attitude or translation control.

Questions:
- Attitude
1) Why does ROLL-LEFT and ROLL-RIGHT show DIFFERENT "Torque" values?
2) Why does YAW-LEFT and YAW-RIGHT show DIFFERENT "Torque" values?
3) Why does PITCH-UP and PITCH-DOWN show SAME "Torque" values?

Translation
Why PORT and STARBOARD are the only ones with non-zero torque?

Is it perhaps because the calculations are done for Ground level at Kerbin and it takes into account gravity and atmosphere?

This archive contains screenshots and test .craft file.

http://kuncos.uvadi.cz/Games/KSP/RCS-AID-TEST.zip

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1 hour ago, ronillon said:

Hi, I recently started playing KSP again. This time with Realism Overhaul, which contains RCS Build Aid Continued.

At first, this mod seemed pretty useful. But it looks like it is either broken or there is something wrong on my side.

In short, the numbers do not seem to make sense. Craft file and screenshots are included in the .zip file.

To be sure, I tested this also with stock KSP (Only RCS Build Aid installed through CKAN.) but got the same results.

Game version: 1.3.1.1891_en-us_x64

Premise:
The craft Im using for this test (.craft file included) should be symmetrical in all 3 axis, including the RCS placement. In such a case the numbers shown and effects of RCS should be the same for all uses, be it attitude or translation control.

Questions:
- Attitude
1) Why does ROLL-LEFT and ROLL-RIGHT show DIFFERENT "Torque" values?
2) Why does YAW-LEFT and YAW-RIGHT show DIFFERENT "Torque" values?
3) Why does PITCH-UP and PITCH-DOWN show SAME "Torque" values?

Translation
Why PORT and STARBOARD are the only ones with non-zero torque?

Is it perhaps because the calculations are done for Ground level at Kerbin and it takes into account gravity and atmosphere?

This archive contains screenshots and test .craft file.

http://kuncos.uvadi.cz/Games/KSP/RCS-AID-TEST.zip

It's definitely a problem with your craft. RCSBA does its calculations based on the vessel's center of mass. Don't second guess it, take it at its word and adjust your RCS placement until torque and translation are where you want them. Just because it looks to your eye that you placed everything properly doesn't mean it is. You downloaded RCSBA for a reason. Trust that if it says your translations are going to result in torque when translating port or starboard then when you get that craft into orbit and translate port or starboard, it's going to torque.

And no, it doesn't have anything to do with whatever you think Kerbin has to do with it.... all RCS thrust values assume maximum possible thrust

Edit: Yeah, just loaded your craft and immediately I can tell that your RCS pods are NOT centered on the ends of those struts. That is glaringly obvious.

Edited by Starwaster

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18 hours ago, Starwaster said:

It's definitely a problem with your craft. RCSBA does its calculations based on the vessel's center of mass. Don't second guess it, take it at its word and adjust your RCS placement until torque and translation are where you want them. Just because it looks to your eye that you placed everything properly doesn't mean it is. You downloaded RCSBA for a reason. Trust that if it says your translations are going to result in torque when translating port or starboard then when you get that craft into orbit and translate port or starboard, it's going to torque.

And no, it doesn't have anything to do with whatever you think Kerbin has to do with it.... all RCS thrust values assume maximum possible thrust

Edit: Yeah, just loaded your craft and immediately I can tell that your RCS pods are NOT centered on the ends of those struts. That is glaringly obvious.

Thank you for the reply and information you provided. Although the implications are rather stressful.

I worked under the assumption, that using "Toggle Snap" with "Tool: move" would center the part. While in reality it centers it "almost" perfect, like 99,9%. As you can imagine I was very surprised and subsequently enraged after finding this out. It was a core assumption and with it broken, all theory falls apart. I wonder whether this "imperfection" is a bug or feature in KSP.

My conclusion at this point is, that the only way of producing crafts with perfect centering and symmetry is editing the .craft files. Either that or some mod that would allow placing parts in exact positions, preferably by punching numbers in and not just sliders. Or perhaps is there another way?

P.S.: Initially I wanted to balance my space station by putting the CoM in the precise center of my central HubMax node. But after a while I knew eyeballing was not going to cut it. As RCSBA was already part of Realism Overhaul, I decided to try it and see whether it could help me with this problem. Seems it is not what I was looking for, but at least it exposed a problem I was not even aware of. That being said, if there is a mod, that would show how much is CoM offset from certain part, that would help me a lot. Or maybe I just suck at building crafts in KSP after all those years.

 

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1 hour ago, ronillon said:

Thank you for the reply and information you provided. Although the implications are rather stressful.

I worked under the assumption, that using "Toggle Snap" with "Tool: move" would center the part. While in reality it centers it "almost" perfect, like 99,9%. As you can imagine I was very surprised and subsequently enraged after finding this out. It was a core assumption and with it broken, all theory falls apart. I wonder whether this "imperfection" is a bug or feature in KSP.

My conclusion at this point is, that the only way of producing crafts with perfect centering and symmetry is editing the .craft files. Either that or some mod that would allow placing parts in exact positions, preferably by punching numbers in and not just sliders. Or perhaps is there another way?

P.S.: Initially I wanted to balance my space station by putting the CoM in the precise center of my central HubMax node. But after a while I knew eyeballing was not going to cut it. As RCSBA was already part of Realism Overhaul, I decided to try it and see whether it could help me with this problem. Seems it is not what I was looking for, but at least it exposed a problem I was not even aware of. That being said, if there is a mod, that would show how much is CoM offset from certain part, that would help me a lot. Or maybe I just suck at building crafts in KSP after all those years.

 

It depends on the part that you are putting things on. Those struts are very hard to center surface attachable parts on the ends

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I have a weird error, which vanishes/reappears when I remove/reinstall this mod on my install.

When I click over to the advanced parts list in the VAB editor, this seems to break part filtering and make the advanced part list bug out. The regular parts list occasionally bugs out too, after a venture into the advanced list.

This happening to anyone else, and anyone know a solution? RCS Build Aid is just too damn handy for building!

Ugh. Disregard the above. Somehow when I reinstalled RCS Build Aid the third time this glitch stopped. I am very confused, but you don't need to worry about this unless other people are getting it.

Edited by JimTheDog

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@JimTheDog

probably a part in your inventory is missing a field that KSP is throwing exceptions on. 

Do you also have Real Chute? That will cause it as those parts are missing the bulkheadProfiles field. (It wasn’t around when those parts were created)

Edit: Other mods are coming to light as causing this; not just Real Chute. That's just the one that I know of as I am the maintainer for it. (it's very next on my list of things to do)

Edited by Starwaster

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26 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

@JimTheDog

probably a part in your inventory is missing a field that KSP is throwing exceptions on. 

Do you also have Real Chute? That will cause it as those parts are missing the bulkhead field. (It wasn’t around when those parts were created)

Edit: Other mods are coming to light as causing this; not just Real Chute. That's just the one that I know of as I am the maintainer for it. (it's very next on my list of things to do)

Appreciate the information. I do have RealChute. (I wonder if I got confused because it's right next to RCS on my install list...)

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21 minutes ago, JimTheDog said:

Appreciate the information. I do have RealChute. (I wonder if I got confused because it's right next to RCS on my install list...)

Again though, it's not the only mod. I'm having that problem myself right now and the RC parts on my installation are fixed. Currently my 1.6.1 install has 505 parts and ten of those are missing that field. (not sure which ones yet)

It was a couple of Mechjeb parts...

Edited by Starwaster

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On 1/27/2019 at 11:03 AM, Starwaster said:

Again though, it's not the only mod. I'm having that problem myself right now and the RC parts on my installation are fixed. Currently my 1.6.1 install has 505 parts and ten of those are missing that field. (not sure which ones yet)

It was a couple of Mechjeb parts...

With this in mind is it perhaps better to wait until this is fixed and ready for 1.6.1 before plopping it into a game with ~150 other mods?

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20 minutes ago, smokytehbear said:

With this in mind is it perhaps better to wait until this is fixed and ready for 1.6.1 before plopping it into a game with ~150 other mods?

No.

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31 minutes ago, smokytehbear said:

With this in mind is it perhaps better to wait until this is fixed and ready for 1.6.1 before plopping it into a game with ~150 other mods?

You can also install a tiny custom patch which puts all the parts with missing bulkheadprofiles into a category like srf (surface) or whatever you like:

If you plan to use ~150 mods, I'm pretty sure that MM will be installed anyway ;) You can also follow the steps from LGG and type in a fake profile name  which can be found easily in the MM ConfigCache, then search the Cache and write custom patches for every part to implement the correct bulkheadprofile but this can be a lot of work ;)

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I wanted to add here that I've been using this mod forever and love it! Thank you to LGG as always for supporting these great mods.

I've recently updated to 1.6.1 and can report all seems to be working properly. I see the recent comment about 1.6.1 in an earlier thread so thought I'd confirm it's working for me.

Edited by scottadges

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1 hour ago, Wright1331 said:

Is this still on CKAN, when I search for it nothing shows up??

It is still there but not flagged as compatible with KSP 1.6.1 so you need to 'trick' CKAN to show it in your list of compatible mods. Don't worry, it works fine on 1.6.1 it's just a technical formality.

Open CKAN, go to Settings -> Compatible KSP Version and select 1.6 (should be the very first entry in the list). Apply the changes and CKAN should show RCS Build Aid (and a couple of other mods with the same 'issue') again :)

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On 2/25/2019 at 6:04 PM, 4x4cheesecake said:

It is still there but not flagged as compatible with KSP 1.6.1 so you need to 'trick' CKAN to show it in your list of compatible mods. Don't worry, it works fine on 1.6.1 it's just a technical formality.

Open CKAN, go to Settings -> Compatible KSP Version and select 1.6 (should be the very first entry in the list). Apply the changes and CKAN should show RCS Build Aid (and a couple of other mods with the same 'issue') again :)

Might as well also select 1.5, most 1.5 mods work in 1.6

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Posted (edited)

I've finally gotten around to updating my KSP installation and mods for 1.6, and I notice that there's an RCS Build Aid button on the toolbar in the space center scene, and clicking it throws a NullReferenceException.  I can't say for certain that it wasn't there in 1.5, but I never noticed it before.

Doesn't actually hurt anything, but figured I should mention it.

(Edit:  The button also appears on the menu screen after quitting from the space center back to the main menu (in order to quit the game).  I don't think that's new in 1.6, though.)

Edited by Wyzard

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12 hours ago, Wyzard said:

I've finally gotten around to updating my KSP installation and mods for 1.6, and I notice that there's an RCS Build Aid button on the toolbar in the space center scene, and clicking it throws a NullReferenceException.  I can't say for certain that it wasn't there in 1.5, but I never noticed it before.

Doesn't actually hurt anything, but figured I should mention it.

(Edit:  The button also appears on the menu screen after quitting from the space center back to the main menu (in order to quit the game).  I don't think that's new in 1.6, though.)

That's very strange, I haven't seen that for a long time.  Are you using the latest version of the mod?  How about a log file, can you post a link to one?

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13 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

That's very strange, I haven't seen that for a long time.  Are you using the latest version of the mod?  How about a log file, can you post a link to one?

Yep: ToolbarControl version 0.1.6.20, ClickThroughBlocker version 0.1.7.1, and RCSBuildAid version 0.9.7.4.  Here's a log, made with no mods except those plus ModuleManager 4.0.2.  (I removed a few lines near the beginning that showed my Steam username and Unity opt-out UUID.)

In the log, I:

  • Started KSP,
  • Created a new sandbox game,
  • Clicked the RCS Build Aid button at the space center (causing an exception),
  • Quit back to the menu,
  • Clicked the RCS Build Aid button there (causing another exception), and
  • Quit the game.

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Posted (edited)

The exceptions are expected since the button should only be shown inside the Editor.

Ok, I've been able to replicate it.  While I don't have a fix (yet), I did see that once you went into the editor and back out, it wasn't shown on the space center.

Another interesting thing is that if you install The Janitor's Closet, the button then behaves properly.

 

Edit:  I'm pretty sure this is due to a stock bug in the stock game toolbar.  It's an oddity because the RCS Build Aid actually creates the button earlier than it is visible.  It's easy to fix, watch for an update to the RCS BuildAid soon 

Edited by linuxgurugamer

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New release, 0.9.7.5

  • Fixed stock toolbar button from sometimes appearing on the Space Center scene
     

May take a little time for CKAN to see the update

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Yep, looks like that fixed it.  Thanks for looking into it.

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