Cheif Operations Director Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) Don't get hung up on rocket names in poll just making a joke. If you don't get it don't worry Creative Liberties KSP is one of the most accurate space games around and all around a fun game. It still has room for improvement. Some of the success of Minecraft and franchises like SimplePlanes, and even KSP are creative liberties. What I mean is that these games let the player choose how to play their own game. Minecraft is a example of creative liberties. If you chose to play it simple you could. If you wanted to you could build cities and play it Complex. Simple Planes lets you make things ranging from small prop planes to fantasy Star Destroyers, the Physics engine allows for this which is both good and bad. With SimpleRockets2 coming up soon it seems like it will afford some creative liberties to players of it follows the style of SimplePlanes. If this is the case I presume texture of the part part size, boyuancy, dead weight and fuel are at your control FOR EACH PART. This would allow for adaptations into effectively Adaptations of Rockets to be made at I could design pretty much whatever I wanted granted some restrictions with engines and parts. How this affects KSP This affects KSP Because games with creative Liberties tend to be a huge success. KSPs Proven Physics engine along with the many highly complicated designs possible with it allow for many possiblites. However many small things like choosing colors and paint schemes can make the game mundane after awhile. Also The inability to create custom parts or something similar is a problem. I'm curious if anyone has the same views. What I think KSP should have is a way to edit certain OR ALL (Preferrably) parts in their size and colour and then save them as custom parts a system similar to sub assemblies. Here is why... In Simple Planes you can build a Star Destoyer pretty quickly atleast the shape. You can edit the wing shape. In KSP if you want to build a comparablely large ship you need hundreds of struts. SO MANY Mk3 Fuel tanks clipped together. And a outer shell that requires you to go piece by piece. In Simple Planes the SHAPE (Not flyable) of a Super Star Destroyer can take Maby 30 minutes tops if your ok at the game. In KSP I have yet to make a flyable wedge shaped "plane" simply because of the glitches. When you see Star Destroyers in KSP on YouTube they usally involve mods in some sense. A Star Destoyer could be used as a forward operating base in KSP and would be very helpful in Career but it can't be built. Atleast not easily. When they are built they are not useful they are just for show or just fly around, atleast in stock. My point is that with this upcoming rocket game and games like this prove that giving creative liberties to the players is important. KSP is fun BUT Only so many mun missions and Probes can be launched before it feels repeative. By allowing the Player to envision SciFi in a game and have to solve the real world problems of them is huge. The fact I might need to make a Physics Accurstr Star Destoyer seems like so much fun. It isn't just sci fit but now needing to take into account Center of mass thrust and lift. Wing positions. Engines. VTOL So much more. I don't want to spend a month making a Star Destoyer in KSP just because the parts don't exist and Physics can't handle so many parts. Allowing to scale up would reduce part cost and improve the stability of the Physics engine. Their are less parts to calculate it's that simple. P.S. THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION TO GAME DEVELOPMENT EVEN IF I SUPPORT IT AS A SUGGESTION IN WANT TO DISCUSS CREATIVE LIBERTIES IN GAMES AND SPECIFICALLY KSP NOT MAKE A SUGEGSTION. PLEASE DO NOT MOVE THIS TO SUGGESTIONS AND DEVELOPMENT. Edited January 7, 2018 by Cheif Operations Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen_Heart Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Simple rockets 2 is a 2D game that has to be dumbed down enough to function on mobile. KSP will stomp it no effort. It's the potential valve game that i'm waiting for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheif Operations Director Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 40 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said: Simple rockets 2 is a 2D game that has to be dumbed down enough to function on mobile. KSP will stomp it no effort. It's the potential valve game that i'm waiting for... Your thinking of SimpleRockets. I'm also assuming they will go with the Simple Planes design schemes https://www.simplerockets.com/Blog/View/2/New-Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket In My Pocket Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 This isn't Call of Duty vs. Battlefield. These are single player games. So really no competition or "threat." We can just play both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheif Operations Director Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, Rocket In My Pocket said: This isn't Call of Duty vs. Battlefield. These are single player games. So really no competition or "threat." We can just play both? That isn't the way I meant it It's a threat to KSP if it beats it in all regards. I don't think it will but if it does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket In My Pocket Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Cheif Operations Director said: That isn't the way I meant it Ok...well you are basically arguing procedural vs. Lego. Devs envisioned the game as Legos in space, and they've said before they are committed to keeping it that way. I rather doubt it would change this late in the games life cycle anyways, maybe this should be a suggestion for the sequel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheif Operations Director Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, Rocket In My Pocket said: Ok...well you are basically arguing procedural vs. Lego. Devs envisioned the game as Legos in space, and they've said before they are committed to keeping it that way. I rather doubt it would change this late in the games life cycle anyways, maybe this should be a suggestion for the sequel? Why does everyone want a sequel? What else is left to add. So what pay for a new game for slightly better graphics? It's still legos in space just bigger or smaller depending on what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket In My Pocket Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Cheif Operations Director said: Why does everyone want a sequel? What else is left to add. So what pay for a new game for slightly better graphics? Major changes to a games formula typically only happen when making a sequel, I never said I "wanted" one but seeing the changes you are discussing it seems like you must? It's prolly your only hope for all procedural parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheif Operations Director Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, Rocket In My Pocket said: Major changes to a games formula typically only happen when making a sequel, I never said I "wanted" one but seeing the changes you are discussing it seems like you must? It's prolly your only hope for all procedural parts. I like the lego style my self I just don't want to have to spend 1 month building a Star Destoyer that won't even fly because I'm lucky enough to be on console and can't download mods... That's happens to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen_Heart Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said: Your thinking of SimpleRockets. https://www.simpleplanes.com/Blog/View/403560/Announcement?showAllComments=true It specifically says the game will be 2D with 3D visual effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheif Operations Director Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Frozen_Heart said: https://www.simpleplanes.com/Blog/View/403560/Announcement?showAllComments=true It specifically says the game will be 2D with 3D visual effects. The trailer look like 3D to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket In My Pocket Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said: I like the lego style my self I just don't want to have to spend 1 month building a Star Destoyer that won't even fly because I'm lucky enough to be on console and can't download mods... That's happens to me Sounds like SimpleRockets 2 is the better game in your case then? Nothing wrong with that. Like I said; you can play both, the gaming police won't show up and arrest you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheif Operations Director Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said: https://www.simpleplanes.com/Blog/View/403560/Announcement?showAllComments=true It specifically says the game will be 2D with 3D visual effects. Does it really matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveroski Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Well over 4000 hours in and my hands still shake after gliding in and landing my new spaceplane on the runway at KSC. If ever there is a sequel to KSP and it doesn't deliver that feeling, then I simply have no interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheif Operations Director Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Again I emphasise I love KSP but eventually the players need more creativity at their disposal. Instead of building look a likes like we are no we can build 1.1 replicas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket In My Pocket Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said: Again I emphasise I love KSP but eventually the players need more creativity at their disposal. Instead of building look a likes like we are no we can build 1.1 replicas. Restricted choices or "lego-style" does inspire creativity. Like a Japanese haiku; very restrictive in form and content, so you are forced to make hard decisions, which brings out your creativity. Sometimes, you can end up being more creative with limited options than you can be with unlimited options. The argument of procedural sandbox vs. lego style is as old as well....lego's and actual sandboxes. Neither is better, they both have their charms. Edited January 7, 2018 by Rocket In My Pocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheif Operations Director Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, Rocket In My Pocket said: Restricted choices or "lego-style" does inspire creativity. Like a Japanese haiku; very restrictive in form and content, so you are forced to make hard decisions, which brings out your creativity. Sometimes, you can end up being more creative with limited options than you can be with unlimited options. The argument of procedural sandbox vs. lego style is as old as well....lego's and actual sandboxes. Ok fair enough... unfortunately KSP don't have thousands of bricks to chose from Also this is Physics not a lego set some things in science can't be assembled with a block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket In My Pocket Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Cheif Operations Director said: Ok fair enough... unfortunately KSP don't have thousands of bricks to chose from Also this is Physics not a lego set some things in science can't be assembled with a block. Maybe you should be suggesting more parts in stock then? KSP is a physics based game, but it's also a lego parts based game. They aren't mutually exclusive. KSP never advertised that you could build "absolutely anything" it isn't Minecraft and it isn't trying to be. It's a vehicle builder/orbital physics teacher game. You have all the parts you need to do anything you'd need to do inside the scope of the actual game-play, what more could you reasonably ask for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheif Operations Director Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 That is so classic. It's like the 7 year old who wants To go to the lego store. Add this add that add blah blah. Its white noise to squad they know we want more parts... instead of guessing each time they add them what if they just game us a freedom to make our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klgraham1013 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said: Why does everyone want a sequel? What else is left to add. So what pay for a new game for slightly better graphics? Would you like that in essay form, or...? Here's a teaser: Have you played career mode in KSP? Have you played a career mode in any other excellent management sim? There you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said: Again I emphasise I love KSP but eventually the players need more creativity at their disposal. Instead of building look a likes like we are no we can build 1.1 replicas. Do you? Because every time I click on one of your threads I get the distinct impression that it's not good enough for you. Most of your complaints also stem from that you play on console. Maybe console KSP isn't what you need. Two games of the same genre can exist at the same time. They do it all the time. 1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said: Instead of building look a likes like we are no we can build 1.1 replicas. You're complaining about not being able to be creative enough... and this. I'm confused. If you want a Star Destroyer, go buy a Star Wars game. KSP isn't about making things that other people have come up with. It's about making your own things. Replicas in KSP are impressive because they're done specifically without parts shaped exactly how you need. You don't drop your jaw at the guy that built the Death Star using the Death Star Lego Set, you do it at the guy that built the Death Star using nothing but standard pieces. 1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said: Why does everyone want a sequel? What else is left to add. So what pay for a new game for slightly better graphics? So you're... what? Clairvoyant? Just because YOU can't think of what they can add doesn't mean they can't. It doesn't mean there's nothing left to add. Unless you can prove that you've compiled a list of every new feature for every video game sequel to ever be released, this point is completely invalid. It's pretty clear you don't like this game. despite saying otherwise. When your new toy up there comes out, go play it. It's getting pretty irritating seeing you complain over and over about how it's not good enough as if someone is forcing you to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen_Heart Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said: Does it really matter? It does to me. I'm not a fan of 2D games, and never have been. For me a 2D space game will never be able to compete with KSP. I also prefer the lego aspect of KSP compared to procedural one piece fuel tanks, engines, and wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snark Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Took me a bit of head-scratching to figure out what this thread was driving at, since the so-called "poll" is deliberately framed to be so slanted towards the poster's desired "correct answer" that I couldn't tell what it was even asking. "Are you in favor of creative freedom" isn't a useful statement-- I mean, who would ever vote "no" to that? Certainly I'm in favor of creative freedom; that's why I play KSP. I had to go and read through stuff in detail to figure out how to decode what was really meant here, i.e. apparently what it really means, as far as I can tell, is "do you prefer a Lego-parts design, or a procedural-parts design." So I went and voted "no" because apparently the poster thinks liking a Lego-style design is somehow "against creative freedom." "Lego-style" design is simply that: a design choice. It's not inherently better or worse than a procedural design. Different people will prefer one or the other. Some people like to get creative with Lego parts. Other people will like to get creative with procedural parts. Some suggestions about poll design in a spoiler section, since it's getting kind of away from the topic. Spoiler Being put in a position where the only way I could express my design choice is to call it "against creative freedom" is kind of annoying, because I am in favor of creative freedom, and I strongly prefer Lego-style parts, and I find it presumptuous of the poll to essentially force someone to describe their own preference as something negative, when it isn't. When posting a supposed "poll", it's worth considering what it is that you're trying to accomplish: Do you want an actual poll, where you simply want to find out what do people think? (And you may discover that they agree with you, or you may discover the opposite.) Or do you just want to try to validate your own opinion by generating results that appear to agree with you? If you're actually interested in what people think, just make your poll a matter-of-fact statement of options without trying to "slant" it. For example, this particular poll would have been much better phrased as "Which design style do you prefer?" with options "Lego parts", "Procedural parts", and perhaps "Undecided / Other". (And if you happen to prefer one of those yourself, it's fine to state that preference and your rationale for it... but don't slant the poll itself.) On the other hand, if all you're trying to do is to try to seek agreement with your own point of view, then by all means produce a poll that's worded in such a way that anyone who disagrees with you sounds somehow "bad" or "wrong." It will have little value in gauging people's actual preferences, because the poll has been engineered to try to give you the answer you want. But if the goal is in generating comfort in one's own position rather than gathering information or respectfully letting people share their differing opinions, then I guess that works okay, too. That's the important thing about a poll: It should be respectful of differing viewpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL59 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 You can create your own parts, if you program them yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheif Operations Director Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Ok this thread is not going the way I wanted it to go at all. Everyone is missing the point... Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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