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Hello everyone, a few days ago I thought on a theory (the mine one), we could probably live inside a black hole, here's why:

The big bang was a sort of an explosion, like a super massive Star colliding on itself making an explosion and the remaining is a black hole, the explosion that has happened that time was the supernova, and the black hole is our universe, then, the matter that black hole "sucks" transforms (inside our universes) into galaxies and stars, this is because it is expanding, and this even means that inside our universe the time goes slower, instead out of it, the time goes faster, this is because when something go near or inside a BH its time slows, because of this our universe expansion slower. The death will be very slow because of Hawking radiation, when the universe will stop expanding it will become always smaller, because of its radiation.

This mean that all of our BH in our universe are other "universe", then the multiverse exist, and then, there could be other black holes in other black hole and goes like this. The problem is now to understand what is the first universe o_O

I need answers :)

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Hi @Matteo Bellomo, welcome to the KSP forums :)

 

This is not an uncommon idea, but it has been shown by cleverer folks than me that the universe is not a black hole.

I'll see if I can track down a link or two to support that.

Though it is true that a black hole with a mass of the observalbe universe has an event horizon about the size of the observable universe, assuming that that means we are inside a black hole is a gross oversimplification. Apparently.

 

Oh amazing! I found what I was looking for!

http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2010/04/28/the-universe-is-not-a-black-hole/

 

**edit**

Also, more from the clever folks at XKCD:

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?t=113442

 

 

Edited by p1t1o
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19 hours ago, p1t1o said:

Also, more from the clever folks at XKCD:

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?t=113442

Happily we know exact mass and radius of the visible Universe, lol.

19 hours ago, Xd the great said:

What if black holes evaporate to explode and form new universe?

If it has some external space to evaporate something out, the process looks recursive.

P.S.
Btw can there be a black hole inside a black hole?

Edited by kerbiloid
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6 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Btw can there be a black hole inside a black hole?

Nope. This would imply that a photon outside of the inner hole's event horizon could travel outwards from it, which it cant, it can only travel inwards,because it is already beneath an event horizon.

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5 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

This would imply that a photon outside of the inner hole's event horizon could travel outwards from it,

Why? A photon from the outside-outside has fallen into the outer inside, then falls under the inner inside, but that doesn't mean it can fly up.
So, like it would be crossing the horizons of the inner holes one-by-one until reaches the innermost one.

Spoiler

latest?cb=20150104200147&path-prefix=ru

 

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I mean that if our universe is a black hole, this would mean that nothing can get out of it, even light, but I said that the matter which goes inside our universe-hole (maybe) would transform in galaxy and stars etc., my "theory" would even mean that this is because helium and hydrogen  are the first component at the time of the big bang, because they are the component of the star which died forming the black hole

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5 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Why? A photon from the outside-outside has fallen into the outer inside, then falls under the inner inside, but that doesn't mean it can fly up.
So, like it would be crossing the horizons of the inner holes one-by-one until reaches the innermost one.

  Reveal hidden contents

 latest?cb=20150104200147&path-prefix=ru

 

But why would there be a second event horizon? The singularity at the centre generates the first EH, defining the radius at which escape velocity = c

For there to be a second EH, there would have to be a second zone where escape velocity=c, implying that a photon could "escape" from some internal zone, to a second. For this to happen, there would have to be a zone under the outer EH where escape velocity = <c, which I dont think is possible.

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1 minute ago, p1t1o said:

or there to be a second EH, there would have to be a second zone where escape velocity=c, implying that a photon could "escape" from some internal zone, to a second. For this to happen, there would have to be a zone under the outer EH where escape velocity = <c, which I dont think is possible.

Sounds reasonable. I'm just guessing: if the Universe is a black hole, then any black hole in the Universe is in turn a nested black hole.

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Our universe isn't a black hole because you actually can go somewhere else, you can't point out it's center (you'll always look like to be the center to yourself), and stuff that you send out is actually sent out.

The insides of a black hole means the only way forward is to go closer and closer to the singularity, which we're not having. It implies you always know where the center is. And anything you send is only sent to the center even further and further.

 

Or... Well, I don't know. "It's a free country", it says, but who cares anyway.

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8 minutes ago, YNM said:

the only way forward is to go closer and closer to the singularity,

And on two black holes merging what happens first: two singularities get inside a single horizon, or two horizons exist around the single singularity?

Edited by kerbiloid
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7 minutes ago, YNM said:

Our universe isn't a black hole because you actually can go somewhere else, you can't point out it's center (you'll always look like to be the center to yourself), and stuff that you send out is actually sent out.

The insides of a black hole means the only way forward is to go closer and closer to the singularity, which we're not having. It implies you always know where the center is. And anything you send is only sent to the center even further and further.

 

Or... Well, I don't know. "It's a free country", it says, but who cares anyway.

I cannot know REALLY what there is inside a black hole, maybe behind the event horizon there is singularity form our point of view, but that singularity could be an universe, we cannot know it, we should study it more and more

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2 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

And on two black holes merging what happens first: two singularities get inside a single horizon, or two horizons exist around the single singularity? 

Singularity is a point. Horizons is about spacetime curvature, not the ability to explain what the curvature is.

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Just now, kerbiloid said:

But originally there are two points. Then there is only one.. 

There's a reason why it's called a singularity, and why it's called an 'event horizon', and why it's called a "black hole".

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Just now, YNM said:

There's a reason why it's called a singularity

Yes, and as originally there are two BH, there are two singularities.
But when they have merged, there is only one, I guess.

So, at some moment two surfaces merge, and and some moment two points become one point.
I don't know, if this happens simultaneously.

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Just now, kerbiloid said:

I don't know

Sums it up perfectly. (we have some extra knowledge or idea as we go a bit further, but we haven't even really see one...)

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36 minutes ago, Matteo Bellomo said:

we should study it more and more 

I'd agree. Though I really don't peer over the stuff anymore though ! Now I deal with more... 'earthly' things.

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3 minutes ago, Snark said:

Actually,  not necessarily.

Collection of points then.

All I know is that they're the exact place where it just doesn't give any 'slope' (change in value) value back. Much like the tangent value for 90 degrees. Just this time for spacetime curvature.

I really don't want to go over the tensors though...

Edited by YNM
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3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Sounds reasonable. I'm just guessing: if the Universe is a black hole, then any black hole in the Universe is in turn a nested black hole.

That is a good argument for the universe *not* being a BH.

 

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

And on two black holes merging what happens first: two singularities get inside a single horizon, or two horizons exist around the single singularity?

Remember that an EH is not a "thing", its is not a surface or a membrane, it is merely the distance from some mass where escape velocity = c

Black holes, if you could get close enough to one, do *not* look like big black spheres. They dont actually "block" light from behind them, there is no obstruction there, only a point mass and its gravity.

If you were inside a BH, there is no event horizon "roof", you'd be able to see out (after a fashion, obviously there would be various kinds of distortion)

Doesnt matter how many masses there are or how much, the EH will just change shape depending on the gravity environment.
 

Honestly, the EH is just as much a mathematical construct as the singularity at the centre, you cant actually see it, its just a distance. So the question becomes:

Is it possible to have two distances from a singularity or collection of singularities where escape velocity = c?

In which case, of course the answer is no

 

**edit**

On another interesting note - I recently read that though the mathematics describes the singularity as infinitely small and dense, in physical reality there is expected to be a limit to density and a real size to the singularity. Though it is still expected to be extremely small and extremely dense.

Edited by p1t1o
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1 hour ago, p1t1o said:

Remember that an EH is not a "thing", its is not a surface or a membrane, it is merely the distance from some mass where escape velocity = c

Black holes, if you could get close enough to one, do *not* look like big black spheres. They dont actually "block" light from behind them, there is no obstruction there, only a point mass and its gravity.

If you were inside a BH, there is no event horizon "roof", you'd be able to see out (after a fashion, obviously there would be various kinds of distortion)

Doesnt matter how many masses there are or how much, the EH will just change shape depending on the gravity environment.
 

Honestly, the EH is just as much a mathematical construct as the singularity at the centre, you cant actually see it, its just a distance. So the question becomes:

Is it possible to have two distances from a singularity or collection of singularities where escape velocity = c?

That's all clear, but can two singularities be inside a region of space which is simultaneously inside both event horizons?

I.e. can a "black hole" have more than one singularity inside? 
Or in other words, can the "sub-horizon" regions of more than one separated singularities be described as a region with the same event horizon?

Edited by kerbiloid
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1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

That's all clear, but can two singularities be inside a region of space which is simultaneously inside both event horizons?

I.e. can a "black hole" have more than one singularity inside? 
Or in other words, can the "sub-horizon" regions of more than one separated singularities be described as a region with the same event horizon?

 

If Im understanding you correctly, yes. Whilst there is no reason you couldnt have two singularities inside an event horizon, you can only have one horizon, no "internal" horizons. That is what I think anyway.

Also, I think there are mechanisms which means two singularities that close will certainly merge into one, so multiple ones would always be a transient state. Again, I think.

Edited by p1t1o
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