Two big features still to hope for: ScanSAT and KOs

[Chilkoot]

The strategic depth and general realism of ScanSAT makes me hope we see something similar built into KSP 2.  Such a great dimension of actual gameplay that it adds.

Likewise, a programmable flight computer (like KOs) seems curiously absent in KSP - it's been a staple of space flight since the 60's.  We have nuclear rockets but no flight computers /shrug

Has anyone heard word if either of these gameplay elements will be included in KSP 2?

[GoldForest]

11 minutes ago, Chilkoot said:

The strategic depth and general realism of ScanSAT makes me hope we see something similar built into KSP 2.  Such a great dimension of actual gameplay that it adds.

Likewise, a programmable flight computer (like KOs) seems curiously absent in KSP - it's been a staple of space flight since the 60's.  We have nuclear rockets but no flight computers /shrug

Has anyone heard word if either of these gameplay elements will be included in KSP 2?

KSP 1 does has a planet scanning tool built in, probably not as in depth as Scansat, it is there. And with KSP 2 being more focused on resource gathering for expansion, I'd imagine that unmanned scanning satellites will only become more needed, so I would say an analog of Scansat might come into play.

As for KOS, I don't see that becoming stock. KSP is about flying rockets yourself. Leave KOS and Mechjeb as mods, and out of stock I say. 

[Superfluous J]

While I doubt something like KOS will become stock (and agree that it really shouldn't) I wouldn't be surprised at all if an expanded version of KAL from Breaking Ground was in the game. There's no reason it couldn't have state-based inputs, to trigger events at certain altitudes, speeds, or whatnot.

I'm cool with the current stock scanning system but if they did something more akin to Scansat I'd be down with that too.

[Chilkoot]

10 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

 Leave KOS and Mechjeb as mods, and out of stock I say. 

Two completely different beasts - I'm in no way advocating for MechJeb functionality to be part of KSP 2 core features.

[GoldForest]

Just now, Chilkoot said:

Two completely different beasts - I'm in no way advocating for MechJeb functionality to be part of KSP 2 core features.

By including mechjeb, I was speaking of any automation for flight controls. I know they are different sides of the spectrum, but still. They're both automation, that's why I included it. 

 

9 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

While I doubt something like KOS will become stock (and agree that it really shouldn't) I wouldn't be surprised at all if an expanded version of KAL from Breaking Ground was in the game. There's no reason it couldn't have state-based inputs, to trigger events at certain altitudes, speeds, or whatnot.

I'm cool with the current stock scanning system but if they did something more akin to Scansat I'd be down with that too.

So something like smart parts functionality inside of KAL? 
I actually wouldn't mind programmable sensors to trigger action groups at certain points. 
Or heck, just make smart parts stock. 

[Chilkoot]

8 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

By including mechjeb, I was speaking of any automation for flight controls. I know they are different sides of the spectrum, but still. They're both automation, that's why I included it.

Well, hard disagree then from here, I'm afraid.  Repeatedly manually piloting the same vessel configuration dozens of times as part of a multi-vessel mission is tedious and demotivating.  I consider it a very weak aspect of gameplay, esp in the current career mode.

If I can save ships and sub assemblies so I don't have to start from scratch each time, it makes sense I can do the same with flight paths and not have to reinvent the wheel each launch.  Manually piloting every second of each and every launch when you have a space program with 200+ ships (many of which are similar lifters) is not engaging gameplay.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Chilkoot

[GoldForest]

2 minutes ago, Chilkoot said:

Well, hard disagree then from here, I'm afraid.  Repeatedly manually piloting the same vessel configuration dozens of times as part of a multi-vessel mission is tedious and demotivating.  I consider it a very weak aspect of gameplay, esp in the current career mode.

If I can save ships and sub assemblies so I don't have to start from scratch each time, it makes sense I can do the same with flight paths and not have to reinvent the wheel each launch.  Manually piloting every second of each and every launch when you have a space program with 200+ ships (many of which are similar lifters) is not engaging gameplay.

I will agree it can become tedious, but I feel it's still necessary. Sure, launching the same thing can get boring, but a work around to this would be create one rocket that can do the job of three or four, so you're not working that much. Plus, launching a rocket is never quite the same. One mission might go off without a hitch, then the next you might accidently miss the engine cutoff meaning your rendezvous needs replanning. 

I am one for maybe autopilot in KSP, but nothing extreme like you're suggesting. Mechjeb I would be okay with, but only if it just controlled one vessel.
 
On the other hand, I wouldn't mind something like fly together or burn together maybe... 

Actually... 

Thinking about it, I wouldn't mind a multi-ship mechjeb or maybe a master-slave KOS system, for example, there's 4 confirmed launch pads in the new KSC. If you put a rocket on each of them, then had one rocket telling the others how to fly, that I would be okay with. 

I'm assuming you mean a universe wide KOS, which I would be again, but a local KOS I wouldn't be. Something that requires a signal from a nearby source and not just a signal from planet Kerbin telling a ship to enter orbit around Jool while you fly a mission to Duna. 

[Chilkoot]

7 hours ago, GoldForest said:

nothing extreme like you're suggesting.

I'm assuming you mean a universe wide KOS

We're definitely talking about 2 different things here...  Not suggesting anything extreme, in fact quite the opposite (and FYI KOS is not universe wide - only the vessel in focus).

The feature I'd like to see is the ability to - at least partially - "programmify" common activities on bulk-use vessels such as launch tugs.  So you design a ship, then design an initial (programmed) flight pattern specifically for that ship that looks something like:

• After launch, at altitude x, set throttle to y.
• At surface speed y, set heading to z

This is a simple, trigger-based launch sequence that's very rewarding when it works, and just as catastrophic when it doesn't.  It's every bit as challenging as holding D and moving your fingers when numbers on the screen change, and it forces you to *really* think ahead about delta-V, stages, air resistance, "Max Q", etc.  It's very useful early in the launch, then quickly becomes less useful as the flight progresses and your mission diverts from previous ones.

It's a conceptually consistent feature, as well - and manually piloting every flight is *not* conceptually consistent.  In the game, I learn, plan and apply knowledge of things like gravity, air resistance, orbital mechanics, delta-V, etc.  I use this knowledge to design rockets, but I don't have to know about the manual assembly/welding.  It would be consistent with the other game mechanics to take knowledge and apply that to a pre-programmed launch sequence of events for a ship I've designed, rather than have to manually execute maneuvers which are themselves an abstraction of real rocket control.

Now that it's come up, a MechJeb assist for a super-easy learning mode wouldn't be so bad.  But again, mods will likely arise for that in short order.  It opens the game to people like small children and very casual players who otherwise may become frustrated just trying to make orbit.

[karolus10]

I believe that incorporating scripting/programming into the game mechanics would be very beneficial as it could be a core part of many systems like staging, action groups or programming behavior of "smart parts".
If a scripting  language similar to kOS is a part of the stock game it means that under the hood it can be used as a part of staging or action groups. This way you can add a command/program block directly into a staging list or even edit staging itself as a script.
This approach would be vastly flexible as it could be used both for more complex programs when needed but it wouldn't be necessary to be touched by beginners unless they want to do very simple things very like unfolding solar panels or editing part tweak-ables who doesn't appear in staging. 

I think that scripting with text is better than visual forms of programming like Scratch, LabView or even KSP action groups as they seem great and simple for very basic things but beyond that this approach is pretty tedious and limiting.

Also I do resent an idea of having instant solutions like mech-jeb available in a stock game. I advocate for having more creative tools rather than playing with training wheels.

Edited August 27, 2019 by karolus10

[shdwlrd]

Some type of automation would be appreciated at some point, just don't know when you should be able to access it. I'm at the point where I just cheat stuff into orbit because even with MJ, I don't want to sit around and wait the 5 or so minutes to reach orbit yet alone manually fly the rocket into orbit.

[mikegarrison]

13 hours ago, Chilkoot said:

Two completely different beasts - I'm in no way advocating for MechJeb functionality to be part of KSP 2 core features.

I still LOL after years on this forum every time somebody reacts with disdain at MechJeb. I consider it absolutely essential to reasonable gameplay. But I guess that's just me (and a lot of other people).

[Chilkoot]

3 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

I still LOL after years on this forum every time somebody reacts with disdain at MechJeb. I consider it absolutely essential to reasonable gameplay. But I guess that's just me (and a lot of other people).

No disdain for MechJeb here, just don't think it should be part of core gameplay, unless it's an optional component for lower difficulty or learning modes.  If you read the whole thread, you'll see I actually suggest that adding MechJeb-level automation would help make the game more accessible to a broader range of players.

[Xd the great]

7 hours ago, Chilkoot said:

No disdain for MechJeb here, just don't think it should be part of core gameplay, unless it's an optional component for lower difficulty or learning modes.  If you read the whole thread, you'll see I actually suggest that adding MechJeb-level automation would help make the game more accessible to a broader range of players.

Mechjeb should never be necessary, and flying without it should be made possible. However, like you said, mechjeb will save us tedious ferrying work, especially when transporting huge amounts of disposable precious kerbals