Nazalassa's try to Elcano Challenge

[Nazalassa]

So, I tried the Elcano Chalenge, and I wanted to do it for every planet with the same rover.

This is the Elcano Challenge:

So, here's my attempt!

-----------__-------------_--_-_-___------_____-_____-------------------___________--_-____--_________------_____-----_-_------___--_----

Rover test and conception:

Spoiler

First of all, I wanted to crash my old Elcano rover prototype.

 

Into the Monolith!

 

Because I had this glitch, with the old Elcano lander prototype, in a docking test. Since then, I've found the way to do it.

 

New rover construction started!

 

Testing the Hatches being "obstructed" or not.

 

Crew cabins final design.

 

Test, with wheels. Unflippable?

 

Eeeer, no.

 

Cabin view.

 

With a ladder this time. Notice the R.A.P.I.E.R?

 

The R.A.P.I.E.R has an offseted CoM, so I put one upside-down, thus lowering the CoM.

 

OK, that was a good idea to test it. Major design issue.

 

At least it doesn't flip!

 

Another problem on arriving at the top of sharp slopes! SAS was off.

 

Ka-boom!

 

Fortunately the crew is still alive.

 

You know, going on slopes...

 

Again???

 

Yup. The smoke comes from a strut connector. Noticed the bumpers?

 

Added a small platform for the ladders and a rear bumper.

 

Only the ladder exploded this time!

 

Heading straight towards a building at 25 m/s might be a bad idea.

 

Ladder extensible platform, to prevent ladder explosions. Then we have to protect struts only, and the rover is ready! After getting some solar pannels and docking ports, of course...

 

Test of the ladder platform.

 

Impaled Kerbal!

 

Wheeee!

 

Still controlable.

 

It was problematic, so I removed the ladder platform.

 

It buoys!

 

I need an antenna. This one might be a bit too big.

 

I moved the wheels, it makes the rover uglier and I won't keep it.

 

On my way to the Ocean to test the Helix prototype.

 

Aaaand it doesn't work.

 

Another test.

 

Propellers are HARD!

 

As are counter-rotating blades.

 

Last try for ocean travel: driving on the ocean floor. Introducing ballast.

 

Ah and, I have a problem with the brakes. Whenever I brake, the rover flips over. I don'tt understand. Brakes are set to 0 for the front wheels and 200 to rear wheels. Help welcome!

 

Does not even sink??? I abandon the amphibious rover. Too much complicated.

 

Testing the lander. Yup, that big thing.

 

Getting closer…

 

Like a glove!

 

The left hatch is willingly obstructed, as whether ladder you go on you'll board in the right pod. Plus, the extensible ladder is "connected" to the pod's ladder, meaning  can go from the extensible one to the pod's. I can't, however, go from the pod's to the extensible one.

But, I don't like it. So, well... Let's go back to SPH!

BACK TO SPH...

The Lander.

 

"Ow!"

And then I wanted to do some drag tests, as the current design features no drag protection at all.

And size tests:

More drag tests.

 

I like this one,

 

Bigger!

 

These drag tests were also used as crashTolerance tests and terminalVelocity tests.

 

Back to business. Noticed the Magnetometers at the bottom?

 

I use them as impact absorbers.

 

That's very efficient!

 

Now with wheels.

 

"KSC, we might have a slight problem"

 

Time to test this rover.

 

Wheee!

 

Whooo!

 

*bunk*

 

OK, this is definitely not stable.

 

Nooo, don't jump into this dish!

 

*crash*

 

So that was the time I made this... I don't have a lot of images of this version, through.

I don't like you, box.

 

Rover design, final version:

Spoiler

First new design, it can go pretty fast

And do this

It can also explode on the SPH...

... and on the Administration Building.

With some more parts, it can be used as a bus.

Vroom

It's very resistant and can go through collisions of like 40 m/s.

 

It can also collide with the Runways's end lights.

Another design, this time narrower. It has a seat!

Val seems happy

... and there escapes the rover.

Bunk into the street lights of the Mission Control

It can fit into a fairing!

Which can deploy itself harmlessly.

Vroom again

Bump

 

More bumps

 

Another version (again) which is much smaller.

 

It has smaller wheels that take less space inside. It can go up to 20 m/s.

 

Val is about to become a hero (see below)

 

This design can fit into a 2.5m utility bay.

 

1st design for two more seats. I don't like it and it doesn't work.

 

2nd design for the seats, much better! I'll keep it.

And finally, my favourite picture:

 

Mission:

Spoiler

Not yet...
--

[WIP] TO BE CONTINUED.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Nazalassa
Fixed images not displaying

[18Watt]

Welcome to the challenge!  Interesting design, I don’t think I’ve seen bumpers like that before.  Are those the landing grip pads?

I found that lots of testing paid off down the road- you’ll be glad you had a durable and somewhat flip-resistant rover when you are out using it somewhere.

Looking forward to watching your progress!

8 minutes ago, Nazalassa said:

So, I tried the Elcano Chalenge, and I wanted to do it for every planet with the same rover.

That’s a noble pursuit!  Most celestial bodies (CBs) can use the same, or very similar rovers.  I found that Eve, Gilly, and Laythe  did not work well with my ‘standard’ rover, I used a unique vehicle for each of those bodies.

[Nazalassa]

Just now, 18Watt said:

Are those the landing grip pads?

Yes! They have a crashTo of 65 m/s, that's plenty of resistance. Before I added these, the batteries always blew up. Now it's the struts behind the bumpers (I don't know why).

And for the R.A.P.I.E.R trick, I discovered it in a danny2462's video and I discovered that it worked with all plane/spaceplane engines. That's probably to help us doing planes and spaceplanes.

2 minutes ago, 18Watt said:

I found that lots of testing paid off down the road

I did way more testing, just to take sreenshots and try ameliorations. The Imgur album is there: https://imgur.com/a/1dOlirX?nc=1

The rover took me (as of the first picture with an extensible ladder platform) like one hour and a half, one hour if you don't count the lag from my computer at each launch.

[18Watt]

44 minutes ago, Nazalassa said:

And for the R.A.P.I.E.R trick,

I’ll admit, I’m not sure what the RAPIER is for.  Is it to add mass, or does it also move the COM lower?

Also, if your struts are blowing up, try auto struts instead.  As of 1.12, auto struts seem to work pretty good..

46 minutes ago, Nazalassa said:

crashTo of 65 m/s, that's plenty of resistance.

You would think that would be plenty.  However…

Edited January 20, 2022 by 18Watt

[Admiral Fluffy]

1 hour ago, Nazalassa said:

So, I tried the Elcano Chalenge, and I wanted to do it for every planet with the same rover.

Good luck. It will take you a while. 
I suggest making different variants of it. You may find a rover with just wheels to be significantly lacking when it comes to Laythe.

That rover is also a bit… small, for my taste.

Spoiler

 

 

[Nazalassa]

On 1/21/2022 at 12:30 AM, Admiral Fluffy said:

That rover is also a bit… small, for my taste.

I want to use the same rover and lander for all the celestial bodies (except Kerbin, Eve, Tylo and probably Laythe), so the rover has to be small. And, if I'm right, my rover faster than yours, up to 58 m/s, because the big wheels are slower than the ones I use. On Kerbin, speed limit is 30 m/s... So, limited speed you know.

But, wait to see the lander!

On 1/20/2022 at 11:51 PM, 18Watt said:

I’ll admit, I’m not sure what the RAPIER is for.  Is it to add mass, or does it also move the COM lower?

2 tons that bring the CoM lower.

On 1/20/2022 at 11:51 PM, 18Watt said:

You would think that would be plenty.  However…

Unless you go straight into a building, it's sufficient.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Nazalassa
Blah blah blah

[Nazalassa]

On 1/20/2022 at 11:02 PM, 18Watt said:

I found that Eve, Gilly, and Laythe  did not work well with my ‘standard’ rover, I used a unique vehicle for each of those bodies.

On Gilly, I'll moderate my speed, and for Laythe and Eve, because of the presence of liquid... I'll see for the rover's buoyancy. Maybe I'll drive at the bottom of the ocean...

Would be cool to see if I can plant a flag at the ocean floor.

I'll also add a propeller "Helix" if the rover buoys.

Also, I had ladder issues, which explain the lack of images these days. I have to find a solution... I got one: I'll modify the positions of the wheels and put back the old ladder design. For now, my Kerbals can't get back into the rover.

And also, is it possible to use BetterTimeWarp and/or EVA construction mode? I think I'll need them.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Nazalassa
Jeb crashed his SRB on my laptop.

[Nazalassa]

@18Watt there's a new Imgur album (because I can't edit the previous due to my lack of mobile phone to register): https://imgur.com/a/O8fvZ0G

Edited January 22, 2022 by Nazalassa

[18Watt]

5 hours ago, Nazalassa said:

there's a new Imgur album

I also found propulsion on the water to be tricky.  Propeller blades are destroyed on contact with the water, so they need to be kept above the surface.  Jet engines are another possible solution.

With jet engines or propellers mounted above the water, the ship tends to pitch down under thrust.  That can be compensated for in many ways, a lot of testing can sort those problems out.

I've done water circumnavigations on Kerbin, Laythe, and Eve.  Check out some of those attempts for ideas on how to make vessels work on water.  Several other players have come up with better designs than mine as well.

Here's my Laythe entry:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/152232-the-elkano-challenge-all-versions-accepted/&do=findComment&comment=3899199

Here's a Kerbin entry:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/152232-the-elkano-challenge-all-versions-accepted/&do=findComment&comment=3917561

Here's a second Kerbin entry of mine:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/152232-the-elkano-challenge-all-versions-accepted/&do=findComment&comment=3917561

And here's what I used on Eve:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/152232-the-elkano-challenge-all-versions-accepted/&do=findComment&comment=3979377

 

[Nazalassa]

Thanks @18Watt! I'll see if I can improve the rover, with staying in its relatively small size. The propeller was inside the rover, so it wasn't visible from the exterior.

So, I think I'll use propellers... Or glitched and over-powered engines, with a KAL-1000 controller. Is it allowed?

And yes, I used only one propeller, not a good idea... I'll put two on the next version, with counter-rotating blades.

It's gonna be fun!

EDIT: I was thinking of having one propeller under the rover and one over it, it it would be nice if I could store them in the lander when not using them (when there's neither atmo nor ocean) and mount them to the rover with EVA construction mode if needed.

This way, no blade would have to hit the water. Or T could just make the rover sink and drive on the ocean floor.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Nazalassa

[Nazalassa]

On 1/20/2022 at 11:51 PM, 18Watt said:

As of 1.12, auto struts seem to work pretty good.

They are.

[18Watt]

On 1/22/2022 at 6:04 AM, Nazalassa said:

And also, is it possible to use BetterTimeWarp and/or EVA construction mode? I think I'll need them.

Yes to both.  BetterTimeWarp is a mod, and would put you in the 'modded' category.  EVA construction is stock, and is definitely allowed.  

17 hours ago, Nazalassa said:

Or glitched and over-powered engines, with a KAL-1000 controller. Is it allowed?

KAL 1000 is a stock part, and is allowed.  

Using the KAL to over-power engines is not allowed, however.

 

[Nazalassa]

2 hours ago, 18Watt said:

Using the KAL to over-power engines is not allowed, however.

Why was I expecting an answer like that ....?

I have problems with the rover; I tried different combinations of propellers, and:

1. it doesn't like Phys-Warp.
2. I can't make counter-rotating blades, whatever I do!
3. it doesn't like water, too.

So, I was thinking to do it with a different vessel, using the power of engines and ISRU. Or I could make the rover sink and drive one the ocean floor, one more time. I'll try it. I'll abandon the propellers, as they don't work properly. The only problem is electricity; I don't know if olar pannels work at the bottom of a ton of liquid, literally. Fortunately, I have 4 RTGs, which provide me 3.2 EC per second.

[18Watt]

1 hour ago, Nazalassa said:

it doesn't like Phys-Warp.

Yes, getting rovers to work with physics warp is a challenge.  Getting boats to work with physics warp is even more challenging.  Physics warp with propellers is extremely difficult.

1 hour ago, Nazalassa said:

I can't make counter-rotating blades, whatever I do!

A search of the forums should yield some information on how to make that work.  The steps you need to do will depend on wether your propellers are side by side, or mounted in-line in front and back.

1 hour ago, Nazalassa said:

it doesn't like water, too.

My experience was that the Mk1, Mk2, and Mk3 fuselages all make good boat hulls.  Other parts tend to cause more drag, and also unpredictable behavior.  Long, narrow hulls seem to be easier to make stable, and it also to make it possible to have the fore/aft balance correct.

Rover wheels have a lot of drag in the water.  However, I've seen other players build amphibious rovers with rover wheels.  There is a trade-off in performance though.

[Nazalassa]

On 1/23/2022 at 10:48 PM, 18Watt said:

Yes, getting rovers to work with physics warp is a challenge.  Getting boats to work with physics warp is even more challenging.  Physics warp with propellers is extremely difficult.

A search of the forums should yield some information on how to make that work.  The steps you need to do will depend on wether your propellers are side by side, or mounted in-line in front and back.

My experience was that the Mk1, Mk2, and Mk3 fuselages all make good boat hulls.  Other parts tend to cause more drag, and also unpredictable behavior.  Long, narrow hulls seem to be easier to make stable, and it also to make it possible to have the fore/aft balance correct.

Rover wheels have a lot of drag in the water.  However, I've seen other players build amphibious rovers with rover wheels.  There is a trade-off in performance though.

If I can't drive at the ocean floor, I'll make separate designs for Laythe, Kerbin and potentially Eve.

EDIT: I can't, definitely.

EDIT 2: Final rover testing complete!

Spoiler

@Admiral Fluffy, how do you find the lander? Is it big enough  ? 5x5x13 meters.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Nazalassa
*random explosions*

[Nazalassa]

Well, last time I maybe wrote a bit too fast. I have other designs for the rover. Here are they.

1. The Standard (Mk2 lander cans below for comparaison)
   Spoiler

   • ⊕ 4 crew, solar pannels, bumpers
   • ⊖ Not very configurable, bumpers don't always work

   

2. The Bowl (technically, just the base; I'll put some stuff on it)
   Spoiler

   • ⊕ Nicer bumpers, you can put almost anything you want on it, can act as a wagon for the rover
   • ⊖ prone to stunts even when driving seriously (can be fixed)

   

   Without stuff on it (and without wheels):

   

   And, with Mk2 Lander Cans in rover form for comparaison (but without wheels):

   

3. The Box With Wheels; I'll put a cockpit on the front, don't worry, and this is just the Bowl with walls and a roof (call ita shell if you want)
   Spoiler

   • ⊕ LOTS of cargo, with (almost) no risk of explosion, pretty sturdy (can hit the VAB at 30 m/s, all to do is repair the wheels), very maniable
   • ⊖ Looks too like "big box on wheels", would need robotics to go out but still cool

   

   Yes this thing is sturdy: *bump*

   

4. The Box With Wheels V2; it has large interior capacity for Kerbals and stuff, plus I can put things on the front (cockpit) and on the top (swimming pool, table for lunch, etc.)
   Spoiler

   • ⊕ Medium cargo and well-protected, possibility to add a playground on top, very maniable too
   • ⊖ Playground not protected

   

Vote for the one you prefer! 2, 3 and 4 can be used as boats, by removing the wheels.

I'll pick it, or not, as the vote will say.

(maybe... May the Kraken be with you BTW)

I vote for n°3, "box with wheels".

P.S: full album here: https://ibb.co/album/G9KjPR

Edited January 30, 2022 by Nazalassa
I just added a line. While I'm there, how was your day? Mine was pretty Kerbal, with rockets and all the stuff. Also, I m̲i̲g̲h̲t̲ need new crew...

[Admiral Fluffy]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:12 PM, Nazalassa said:

Vote for the one you prefer!

If they are all autostutted together, I would go with 3 or 4. If not, then 2. The panels can get pretty bent after a long voyage. (I think.)

[18Watt]

I actually like #1.

 

[Nazalassa]

13 hours ago, Admiral Fluffy said:

If they are all autostutted together, I would go with 3 or 4. If not, then 2. The panels can get pretty bent after a long voyage. (I think.)

They are, and I tried bumping them on the VAB, poor VAB... Yesthe pannels are (a bit) desassembled, but Time Warp fixes it.

P.S: I added two Mk1 Lander Cans on the front, I'm working on bumpers. They only have a crashYo of 12 (or was it 20?).

[Nazalassa]

Lander design in progress.

[Nazalassa]

It will be twice as lighter as the version you saw in the previous screenshots, and it will have a better ISP and will be able to go to orbit from surface on every planet or moon that is not Eve, Kerbin or Tylo.

EDIT: At least three times lighter and very smaller than the previous 109-tons version (when full).

Edited February 16, 2022 by Nazalassa

[Nazalassa]

All right, mission started! As I write these lines, I've put the Lander in Munar Orbit and plan to land it.

And now it's landed, and I realized than I'll need more lights and radiators. I'll send them tomorrow, before sending the rover on its mission.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Nazalassa
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[Nazalassa]

Screenshots coming soon!

[Piatzin]

heh heh heh sneaky sneak

The profile picture, I mean.

Ahem. Sorry.

I'll be off...

[Watermel00n]

@Nazalassa sorry for the late response, i choose number 3!