Remote-Tech like communication system

[LORDPrometheus]

For those who are unaware there is a mod for ksp known as Remote-Tech.

I would put a link but am writing this post from my phone sorry.

The mod makes it so you need to add antenna and or satalite dishes to your spacecraft or otherwise loose control over them. The mod takes into account distance, transmitter strength and orientation, receiver type and orientation and data stream type. These variables translate into a time delay bwtween sending a command and your unmanned craft responding. I find that it will easily become 30+ seconds outside minmus's orbit and 60+ around duna.

A similar communication feature in the base game would be an excellent addition to the game and impart alittle extra realism and use for science parts.

You would need to build communication satalites or even planetary dish arrays to keep in contact with your ships.

The time delay system may be too in depth for the base game but should be considered all the same.

Please comment with your opinions and until next time

Experiri non ad mortem

(Try not to die)

Prometheus

[Zaeo]

Of course, manned vehicles would not have this requirement. It already has the sat dish's and antenna in the game, all that needs to be added is the "in view" stuff.

However, There is the issue of saves becoming obsolete almost every update, so this probably won't happen until update saves are completely compatible.

[Deejay2000]

It would be great to see this in the base game. Until we see the update with this (I'm sure it will come sometime soon, or at least eventually), I will be using RemoteTech.

When you say "Keep in contact with your ships" do you mean just probes, or all ships? I can only see it with probes, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to set up your own mission control on another planet, because the majority of the time you wouldn't be connected to the mission control on Kerbin. Also, manned ships can fly themselves.

-Deejay

Edited August 13, 2013 by Deejay2000

[astropapi1]

The only thing keeping me from RT is the time delay.

How do you perform a skycrane-like maneuver on Duna with a 3+ minute delay?

[PDCWolf]

The only thing keeping me from RT is the time delay.

How do you perform a skycrane-like maneuver on Duna with a 3+ minute delay?

You pre-program it. Regrettably, remotetech's queue computer is, at this point, utter cr/p. It should be a mix between a simplified prog-com and the normal flight computer functionality but Cilph is too busy ripping code from mechjeb.

On topic: I like the idea, and I gave it 5 stars.

Edited August 13, 2013 by PDCWolf

[Deejay2000]

The only thing keeping me from RT is the time delay.

How do you perform a skycrane-like maneuver on Duna with a 3+ minute delay?

Set down a mission control (in RT 0.5 you can, I haven't checked the new version) on Duna, then put satellites around it.

By mission control, I mean a tower with one of the good antennaes and three kerbals inside to control it.

-Deejay

[Kimberly]

The new RemoteTech version will include programmable commands, so you can program an entire deorbit and landing sequence while the craft is in contact, and then watch it be executed. You can't manually correct, of course, without suffering the time delay.

[Tassyr]

Honestly if this is implemented I think it should be optional. I seriously prefer having direct, manual control- even if I do use mechjeb- of my ships.

[ZenithRising]

I really like this idea, but I would get rid of the time delay, or at least make it a toggleable option (that is off by default). It's realistic and interesting, but it would quikcly make the game a lot less fun too.

[razark]

The only thing keeping me from RT is the time delay.

I know there is a config file where you could edit the speed of radio, so you could remove or reduce the delay. Don't know if that's being carried over to the new version.

How do you perform a skycrane-like maneuver on Duna with a 3+ minute delay?

Very carefully.

I put a station with control capabilities around Duna, and used that to control a probe to the surface.

[Dunbaratu]

RemoteTech would be a thing I'd use iff it had a good enough programming system that let me write code for the craft to follow for things like landings. That would feel appropriate for robotic missions.

I don't know if I do or don't like the idea of it being standard though. Not all players of the game want to be programmers.

[Morty_jhones]

Personally while i like the Idea of Remote Tec, I also do not like the delay in responses and agree that if they put something like this into the main game it would have to be instantaneous when active.

Ground controllers, get weeks even months to plan, code, test and retest command programs for probes and rovers look at curiosity all the programs it will be using for the next year are all ready written and have had over a year of simulation testing to make sure they work. how long do you get to program a decent path in game while the rovers in range? 10 maybe 20 min and you can't test it just quick-save & keep your fingers crossed.

[Diche Bach]

Agree it should be in the base game. But it should be an optional on/off feature. It adds to the difficulty of learning the game quite a bit so I don't think forcing new players to adapt to it (either in sandbox or career mode) would be a good idea. Squad seem pretty clearheaded about all that stuff though, so not like I'd really be concerned.

[Bilfr3d]

I think this would add good aspect of realism to the game, and it would make it a lot more difficult (hence increasing fun and explosions).

Edited August 14, 2013 by ToTheMun
Spelling error

[Deejay2000]

I would only support being able to turn it off in sandbox mode to make it feel more like a sandbox. Keep it on in career mode.

-Deejay

[InfinityArch]

At the very least, I'd like there to be a requirement to be in contact with probes to control them.

[Spyritdragon]

I kindof like the idea of keeping this optional, or at least the time delay should stay optional. But the general idea is nice, as long as you can send Kerbals over to remote bases to get control starting from there, so you can cut signal times.

[Beeman]

I fully agree with things like this being toggle-able in sandbox mode but more or less required for career mode.

I also agree that communication equipment should be expanded upon and be granted actual functionality into the game proper, without requiring mods. Though I feel like this would be somethin' they work on a bit later, when they get back to working on part updates and non-HUGE underlying mechanics or features.

[Kimberly]

RemoteTech would be a thing I'd use iff it had a good enough programming system that let me write code for the craft to follow for things like landings. That would feel appropriate for robotic missions.

It will, in the next version.

[Dunbaratu]

It will, in the next version.

Looking forward to it. I don't use mechjeb because it's an autopilot that was handed fully formed from heaven, given as a gift to my space program without my people having to do any work on figuring out how to make it. I'm not against autopilots, but I'm against autopilots someone ELSE wrote. I want the making of the autopilot to be part of my own challenge.

[Ernest3.14]

I'm not against autopilots, but I'm against autopilots someone ELSE wrote. I want the making of the autopilot to be part of my own challenge.

Agreed. Also, time delay is an inherent issue with missions IRL, just as not having infinite RCS is an issue IRL. And since it would add gameplay value, I think this should be implemented. Of course, the delay should be small enough that you should be able to get to, say, Duna, without having to consider it.

[winn75]

The idea of communication system is great and should be implemented in the stock game. However communication delay would make long distance missions unplayable. Also automated manoeuvre would kill the fun as you won't operate your vessel yourself (that why there is no and maybe never will be autopilote in the stock game).

I had some ideas about how to make it rather realistic and fun to play:

The problem here it : "How to simulate distante communication backdraws you have in real life and keep it hand playable?"

Well, the idea it to add a ressource simulating communication data. As electricity, you'd consume it to operate your vessel but the main difference is you can't recharge it and only KSC can provide it (through direct contact or satellite network).

When you are in contact with KSC your vessel receive this ressource and you use it to have control : No problem.

But the longer the distance is, the lesser you get this ressource (Lets say the speed you get it is calculated in Kilobits/second and drops according to the distance until it reaches 0).

If you are manoeuvering the vessel too far from KSC, then you'll consume it faster than you'll receive it and you'll lose control.

Antena and dishes improve the reception of this ressource but uses a constant amount of electricity and they loose efficiency over distance (and maybe thick atmosphere or other perturbations as reentry heat, cosmic ray, radiations, scpace monolith... if implemented : i don't really know how this work in real life) :

- Antenas would be omni directional but receive less ComData than dishes over distance. They are electric cost-effective on short distance but not on long ones. However they can sightly boost reception on long distance if your vessel can provide enought electricity to support many of them.

- Dishes receive more ComData over distance but consume much more electricity and are eavyer. Not very electric and weight cost-effective on short distance.

They also have to point the right direction: Let's automate this to avoid always have to reconfigure your communication network. Dishes auto-target the closest "in network" avalaible object but can point a specific target if needed. This don't need to be over precise cause if you make this too realistic then if you rotate 1° on long distance you'll loose contact

Other idea:

Maybe the communication data ressource can be stored in the probe core (with a very limited amount) and could bed used when you're not in direct contact. This would simulate autopilote as in "it's not in contact but it can manoeuvre" (but the player keeps enjoying playing with his beloved probes ). For instance : a landing would be very hard cause you'd have to be faster and more precise in your manoeuvres. So keeping contact is preferable.

Another fun exemple : "damn, my probe is too far and I definitly loose contact with it. Ok i'll send a maned vessel full of data close to it and make contact to download them into the probe to get control back."

Last thing : In real life, why does manned vessel keep contact if they just can be autonomous for manoeuvre? Actually they may use some informations given by space center, right?

Ok let's do the same in KSP.

If your maned ship loose contact with KSC you still can control it but...

All the orbit informations on the map and manoeuvre node tools are hiden until you get contact back. so, you may keep full control but try to make an planetary transfer now ^^...

Last last thing : Maybe if you leave a vessel with no contact and go back to KSC, then you can't go back to this vessel. You'd see it in the vessel list as :

"Vessel name

- Last known position : Eeloo orbit

- Not controlable -"

Your are now ready to send a rescue mission to the unknow

Edited September 5, 2013 by winn75

[innovine]

It would be awesome to have an aimable antenna, and when you point it to kerbin (or a relay satellite) you start to hear radio chatter. Have the chatter fade away again as the antenna drifts off target

[boomerdog2000]

I think I would prefer remotetech's current version of aiming the dish through the menus but not having to physically aim the dish. This would most likely be too problematic I feel.

[winn75]

Thats why i suggested the autoaim that doesn't nee to be overprecise (I was imagining a mobile dish that could rotate by itself).

I'm actually playing with RemoteTech but i edited the .cfg to make all the dishes omnidirectionnal so they auto aim any other communication relay in rage to keep contact.

It may make it sighlty easier but i don't have to spend hours reseting ther com path in menus anymore (now I just have to focus my attention on range and blackout zones.)