[1.1.2] Station Science (v2.0: New models by SpeedyB)

[DavidHunter]

Hi there,

Installed Station Science on my Mac OS X install last week. Enjoyed the mod, then started building a super-size space station (one with literally _every_ experiment, and all required support parts) so I could take it to Minmus (conveniently, I had contracts to do most of the sciences there).

Docked the very last part (engines) when in Kerbin orbit, and then hit the memory limit. Dang.

Anyway, so then I switched over to Linux (64-bit) as per NathanKell's suggestion. I downloaded the latest KSP from the website, installed it, then copied my old Saves folder and mod folders into the relevant directories.

Fired up KSP, and it hangs while loading a Station Science model. (i.e. during the very first KSP loading screen during which it loads the various mods)

As I detailed over here, there seems to be an issue and Linux KSP isn't writing to the player.log file.

That said, KSP is writing to the KSP.log file, and from that I note the following errors during KSP loading, at the end of my log:

[LOG 23:02:35.751] Load(Model): Squad/Spaces/GenericSpace1/model

[LOG 23:02:35.764] Load(Model): Squad/Spaces/GenericSpace3/model

[LOG 23:02:35.784] Load(Model): Squad/Spaces/PodCockpit/model

[LOG 23:02:35.808] Load(Model): Squad/Spaces/crewCabinInternals/model

[LOG 23:02:35.824] Load(Model): Squad/Spaces/cupolaInternal/model

[LOG 23:02:35.832] Load(Model): Squad/Spaces/landerCabinInternals/model

[LOG 23:02:35.843] Load(Model): Squad/Spaces/landerCabinSmallInternal/model

[LOG 23:02:35.850] Load(Model): Squad/Spaces/mk1CockpitInternal/model

[LOG 23:02:36.487] Load(Model): Squad/Spaces/mk1PodCockpit/model

[LOG 23:02:36.498] Load(Model): StationScience/Parts/StnSciCyclo/._model

[WRN 23:02:36.498] File '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciCyclo/._model.mu' is an incorrect type.

[WRN 23:02:36.498] Model load error in '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciCyclo/._model.mu'

[LOG 23:02:36.499] Load(Model): StationScience/Parts/StnSciCyclo/model

[LOG 23:02:36.519] Load(Model): StationScience/Parts/StnSciExperiment1/._model

[WRN 23:02:36.519] File '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciExperiment1/._model.mu' is an incorrect type.

[WRN 23:02:36.519] Model load error in '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciExperiment1/._model.mu'

[LOG 23:02:36.520] Load(Model): StationScience/Parts/StnSciExperiment1/model

[LOG 23:02:36.523] Load(Model): StationScience/Parts/StnSciKib/._model

[WRN 23:02:36.523] File '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciKib/._model.mu' is an incorrect type.

[WRN 23:02:36.523] Model load error in '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciKib/._model.mu'

[LOG 23:02:36.524] Load(Model): StationScience/Parts/StnSciKib/model

[LOG 23:02:36.528] Load(Model): StationScience/Parts/StnSciLab/._model

[WRN 23:02:36.528] File '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciLab/._model.mu' is an incorrect type.

[WRN 23:02:36.528] Model load error in '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciLab/._model.mu'

[LOG 23:02:36.529] Load(Model): StationScience/Parts/StnSciLab/model

[LOG 23:02:36.572] Load(Model): StationScience/Parts/StnSciSpectro/._model

[WRN 23:02:36.573] File '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciSpectro/._model.mu' is an incorrect type.

[WRN 23:02:36.573] Model load error in '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciSpectro/._model.mu'

[LOG 23:02:36.573] Load(Model): StationScience/Parts/StnSciSpectro/model

[LOG 23:02:36.580] Load(Model): StationScience/Parts/StnSciZoo/._model

[WRN 23:02:36.580] File '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciZoo/._model.mu' is an incorrect type.

[WRN 23:02:36.580] Model load error in '/home/david/Desktop/KSP_linux/GameData/StationScience/Parts/StnSciZoo/._model.mu'

Are you aware of what might be the cause?

Thanking you in advance for your help,

Dave

Addendum: downloaded Station Science from OP link again and installed fresh copy (rather than using the copy I had on my Mac to begin with). Still no joy. Worth trying, though.

Edited August 30, 2014 by DavidHunter
Added addendum

[steve_v]

Disregard, It's something else.

Edited August 30, 2014 by steve_v

[GigaG]

I cannot enter the science lab on EVA.

[ethernet]

Are you aware of what might be the cause?

No idea. I've seen reports of this before, but I can't reproduce it on my system. I've given up trying to debug for 64-bit KSP. It's too just too unstable.

I cannot enter the science lab on EVA.

Is this on the 64-bit version? Are you able to enter the Zoology Bay and Hitchhiker Storage parts?

[DavidHunter]

No idea. I've seen reports of this before, but I can't reproduce it on my system. I've given up trying to debug for 64-bit KSP. It's too just too unstable.

Le sigh. Oh well. Thanks anyway.

So how am I meant to build this space station and actually use it?

[ethernet]

Le sigh. Oh well. Thanks anyway.

So how am I meant to build this space station and actually use it?

I'd suggest using 32-bit KSP, and using the Active Texture Management mod if you're having problems with memory.

As for how to use this mod in play, the first post of this thread has the details.

[DavidHunter]

I'd suggest using 32-bit KSP, and using the Active Texture Management mod if you're having problems with memory.

That's what I was doing already, and yes, ATM was on aggressive mode.

The point I'm trying to make is that it is impossible to build a space station with every experiment aboard once you add in all the required support parts (RCS, docking ports, segment computer cores, power, etc etc) because you run up against the memory limit.

[sreinmann]

Hard to say that its impossible David as others (including me) are doing it successfully. Now I don't know what all you have going and on what system, but I can tell you that, while I originally thought as you are of putting all the experiments on the station at once, I can now see the value of only putting one experiment at a time at the station. The cyclotron/power/crew/kibble requirements of each individual experiment kind of necessitate running them individually anyhow as the mod author indicates in several instructions/posts.

Yes that means more launches and more visits and more work in each science sphere. And more exciting visits. More launches. EVAs. Docking. More chances for success and failure.

BTW. I'm 32bit with TAC/NEAR/Orbital Science/RemoteTech/Universal Storage/KAS and a bunch of helper mods a total of 28. I'm not running any beautification, and I'm not using ATM. No crashes due to this mod for me. Again, that's not a slight to your install. Just hoping to let you know that it is working for some of us with a slightly different approach.

[somnambulist]

That said, KSP is writing to the KSP.log file, and from that I note the following errors during KSP loading, at the end of my log:

The ._ files are OS X's way of storing HFS+ extended attributes on non HFS+ file systems. They can be safely deleted in this case.

[veryinky]

I sent experiments up in 3 packs with a probe core & rcs using a ssto, that ssto's job was to drop off new batches of experiment packs and pick up the finished ones.

If I was to start over. I'd go for a balanced ship that'd be easy to move instead of a station and load it up with experiment kits for when the ship eventually returns to kerbin. Like a mission to Duna would carry 5 different sets of experiments, for high solar orbit, high/low Duna orbit, high/low Ike orbit.

I think my main problem with Station Science is that the 2.5 docking clamp is so late in the tech tree. By the time I have it I don't really need to build stations anymore.

[ethernet]

That's what I was doing already, and yes, ATM was on aggressive mode.

The point I'm trying to make is that it is impossible to build a space station with every experiment aboard once you add in all the required support parts (RCS, docking ports, segment computer cores, power, etc etc) because you run up against the memory limit.

It is certainly possible with just stock game plus Station Science. Large stations/vessels wouldn't make you run out of memory to a significant degree. Large numbers of mods installed are what does it (due to the textures). It sounds like there's something wrong beyond just hitting the 32-bit memory cap. Can you try on 32-bit, with the "._" files removed?

I think my main problem with Station Science is that the 2.5 docking clamp is so late in the tech tree. By the time I have it I don't really need to build stations anymore.

Go for a puller configuration (engines at the front, pointing back), and you won't need 2.5m docking docking ports.

[dlrk]

Can the contracts be changed to require the retrieval of the science data, not the actual pods?

[DavidHunter]

It is certainly possible with just stock game plus Station Science. Large stations/vessels wouldn't make you run out of memory to a significant degree. Large numbers of mods installed are what does it (due to the textures). It sounds like there's something wrong beyond just hitting the 32-bit memory cap. Can you try on 32-bit, with the "._" files removed?

Ahhh ok, I'll eat humble pie then. Thanks.

Can the contracts be changed to require the retrieval of the science data, not the actual pods?

It already has that ability. You can send a mission to collect the data on EVA from the part, put the report in a return capsule and recover it for max sciences.

[veryinky]

When I tried it, creature comforts and kwark bioactivity pods didn't allow removing the science, the others did.

[JeffreyCor]

Haven't seen this posted so not sure if no body had the situation or no one else is having this. On the studies experiments i'm finding if the game is saved and reloaded the contract checks no longer take the experiment pod as being "new" and removes those completed steps required for the contract resulting in the contract not fulfilling on recovery. It is like the contract doesn't remember that the experiment was launched after the contract's acceptance and only checks for what it sees as that one particular flight.

[invultri]

That is the exact same problem that I am having. It is easy to test, just launch a ship and go to the space center scene. The tick marks will dissapear. Other than this slight problem I have had a lot of fun putting this research station together:

[Bothersome]

That's an impressive station. I have JUST got my first plant life experiment running. Playing in career mode on RO,RSS,DRE,FAR,etc. And not knowing exactly what I need in order to make this research station function. Here is a picture of my science station doing it's first research on plants. This thing has cost me over 6 million so far. I ran out of money so I've got to do something to make some credits so I can finish building this station.

I've also noticed that some sciences won't transmit the next component of science value. You can transmit, but I'm not credited with the science transmitted. For instance, I have gravity data in high Kerbin orbit. Say it would give about 7.5 science value. After transmit, not extra science points in register. Can redo collect gravity data, same result, same values. Is that due to this mod changing the science processes?

[ethernet]

Haven't seen this posted so not sure if no body had the situation or no one else is having this. On the studies experiments i'm finding if the game is saved and reloaded the contract checks no longer take the experiment pod as being "new" and removes those completed steps required for the contract resulting in the contract not fulfilling on recovery. It is like the contract doesn't remember that the experiment was launched after the contract's acceptance and only checks for what it sees as that one particular flight.

That is the exact same problem that I am having. It is easy to test, just launch a ship and go to the space center scene. The tick marks will dissapear. Other than this slight problem I have had a lot of fun putting this research station together:

http://i.imgur.com/9PfXmG5.png

I've not been able to reproduce these problems. I accepted a contract, launched a new craft with the proper pod, and the first requirement checked off. Then I quicksaved/quickloaded, and the check box remained. Then I went the space center and back, and the check box was checked once again.

If you can reproduce this consistently, please do the following:

1) Accept a contract, launch the craft. Then do a quicksave. Set this quicksave aside.

2) Either load the quicksave, or go to the space center and back

3) Make another quicksave with the box now unchecked.

Quit KSP, and zip up the two quicksaves, and your KSP.log.

I've also noticed that some sciences won't transmit the next component of science value. You can transmit, but I'm not credited with the science transmitted. For instance, I have gravity data in high Kerbin orbit. Say it would give about 7.5 science value. After transmit, not extra science points in register. Can redo collect gravity data, same result, same values. Is that due to this mod changing the science processes?

This mod shouldn't change stock experiment behavior at all. Do you have any other mods installed?

[robot256]

This mod shouldn't change stock experiment behavior at all. Do you have any other mods installed?

I remember seeing that bug as well, maybe even in stock KSP. I doubt it is this mods fault.

On another topic: Did I read the CLS thread correctly and you are going to include a connected living spaces config in the next update? I had to hack it in myself after I discovered my science station was split into three parts instead of one. o.0 I can post the simple config if anyone wants it.

[Kowgan]

I'm not sure if this is the proper place to post it, and if so, my apologies; you may require the deletion of this post.

Since the main focus of my question is about Station Science, I'll post it here.

I looked through all the previous pages, and couldn't find anything specific related to my question.

Anyway. I wonder: Have anyone here ever dared taking a Science Station on an interplanetary trip? This has been in my mind for some time now, and the Eve transfer window is coming in a few hundred days.

I am trying to decide between docking the whole station in a large (mother?) ship around Kerbin in order to travel to Eve; or flying several "small" ships, each containing one module from the station, in order to dock everything at Eve's orbit. As you might know, those payloads aren't anything close to light weight, so, that's a tough decision for a tough flight.

I've been testing a few rocket designs on what would be the best to take on a planetary quest, and eventually I came up with this:

(testing on sandbox, with both infinite fuel and gravity hack turned on.)

It has an initial TWR of 0.32, and contains 2.7k dV. Managed to get it around Eve (inf fuel), but I intend to tweak the ship and upgrade those numbers a bit. So, I'll repeat my question, below:

Tl;dr: Have you taken your station to another planet? What would you choose between: One large ship carring the whole station from Kerbin orbit; or flying several smaller ships in order to dock them at the targeted planet/moon's orbit?

Although yet trying to decide myself, I guess my personal choice would be to use small ships only at short distance flights (Mün and Minmus), while all the interplanetary missions would have to be transported by a large ship.

Thanks in advance.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Kowgan

[Bothersome]

I'm currently playing a RO career game. One of the mods that I've added is KSPI-Lite. I know, for a realism mod, it doesn't seem a proper fit. Yet it sure adds fun and fantasy to a realistic feeling game. Anyway, that's how I intend to get my space station to other planets, just warp them there. I haven't yet unlocked the warp drive, it's probably last in the research tree (and very expensive). This way I can get to far flung places without cheating. It's the reward for having worked my way though the tree.

[Mokmo]

When I tried it, creature comforts and kwark bioactivity pods didn't allow removing the science, the others did.

Confirmed. A setting has been removed to make this happens in the cfg files it seems...

[chlue]

Tl;dr: Have you taken your station to another planet? What would you choose between: One large ship carring the whole station from Kerbin orbit; or flying several smaller ships in order to dock them at the targeted planet/moon's orbit?

For partcount and stability reasons I would go with an crazy lifter to put the static parts and the energy supply into Kerbin orbit in a single launch and then dock a ferry with a TWR of around 0.2 to it (If the thing is really stable then you can make your burn with 4x physic timewarp, so a burn for Duna or Eve will still not take long.). Attach a small return vessel with all experiments and you are ready to go. As long as you go somewhere where you can aerobrake and don't have deadly reentry installed this will not be much harder than going to minmus. If you play with FAR and or deadly reentry this is a completely different story trough :-)

[kaoz]

My only "complaint" about the mod is that an experiment can be performed only once in the SOI of a body;. For instance, you cannot run the Plant Growth experiment twice when orbiting Kerbin. That is a lot of expensive heavy hardware (Science lab, Zoology, Cyclatron, etc) to be used only once per experiment. One experiment actually requires two Cyclatrons; I won't be doing that one. And, given the minimal amount of Science per experiment, that makes the Science very expensive.

So: 1) increase the amount of Science per experiment. Say 800 total Science for Plant Growth earned at 80 per experiment, or; 2) remove Science limitation altogether.

Granted that the Science Lab is required for multiple experiments, once the five or six experiments are completed, my Science Stations (Kerbin, Mun) have no purpose. might as well de-orbit them. My Mun Station has a Spectrometron, which is not required for Kerbin.

I so agree with you the investment on building a station to the reward is not in par, each experiment should have at least three different contracts and pay more

[Bothersome]

I'd have to agree.

When you can do a single "test a 404 jet engine at 21000" that gives 135 science points, in a ten minute period, sure beats the hell out of building a complex space station weighing in at a couple hundred tons to make 60 science. OK once the station is build, you can keep using it. But a launch to get back about the same as a test engine contract is still a bit short.

What the stations need to do is generate continuous science but at a fairly slow rate. And we need some kind of reward for gathering the science. What I'd like to see eventually, is a have a flag pole for every planet and moon. And once you have put a flag on that surface and returned home, you get to fly that planet's or moon's flag on it's pole at KSC. Then we could take screen shots and brag. Kind of like a reward for getting Kerbals to all places in the solar system.

If we can't have that, then some kind of UFO ship could be given to use after completing everything. Some kind of high priced / hard to get reward.