[0.23.5] Realism Overhaul: ROv5.2 + Modlist for RSS 6/30/14

[craigmt1]

Anyone know where to find rescaled FASA configs? Older link seems to be dead.

[ThorBeorn]

Anyone know where to find rescaled FASA configs? Older link seems to be dead.

Here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/73319

[craigmt1]

Here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/73319

Thanks, that seems like it will work. Haven't played in a couple months so trying to regather all the packs and figure out what's new.

Would anyone know why no parts are loading in the VAB?

[The Destroyer]

Nathan, last time I played with this awhile ago (using the RSS Mod bundler) I noticed you started off with:

Probes

Strethcy tanks

low-thrust engines

THEN SUDDENLY

DELTA IV CRYO ENGINE

That engine with a big enough tank is a SSTO.

[Guest]

Found this on tac thread. KSPI liquid water into water and a green house part that seems reasonable to work with, below is the quot from that thread (both made by user jinks)

adds a LqdWater to Water converter to the two existing Water Purifiers (called "Industrial Water Purifier")

Here's the config:

@PART[TacWaterPurifier]
{
    MODULE
    {
	name = TacGenericConverter
	converterName = Industrial Water Purifier

	// Number of units to convert per day (24 hours)
	conversionRate = 8

	// A comma separated list of resources to use as inputs.
	// For each resource, list the resource name and the amount (which
	// is multiplied by the conversionRate)
	inputResources = LqdWater, 1, ElectricCharge, 1000

	// A comma separated list of resources to output. Same as above
	// but also specify whether it should keep converting if the
	// resource is full (generating excess that will be thrown away).
	outputResources = Water, 0.9, false
    }
}
@PART[TacWaterPurifierLarge]
{
    MODULE
    {
	name = TacGenericConverter
	converterName = Industrial Water Purifier

	// Number of units to convert per day (24 hours)
	conversionRate = 8.4

	// A comma separated list of resources to use as inputs.
	// For each resource, list the resource name and the amount (which
	// is multiplied by the conversionRate)
	inputResources = LqdWater, 1, ElectricCharge, 1000

	// A comma separated list of resources to output. Same as above
	// but also specify whether it should keep converting if the
	// resource is full (generating excess that will be thrown away).
	outputResources = Water, 0.9, false
    }
}

Caution: LqdWater is a STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH resource, so you will need standard fuel lines or add KAS fuel pipes from a LqdWater container to a purifier.

The greenhouse is here:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-23-0-23-5-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-8-22Dec?p=1107367&viewfull=1#post1107367

Here's the download: TACGreenHouse.zip.

Screenshot:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/475833/KSP/Greenhouse.png

The relevant part from the part.cfg:

//TAC Greenhouse
MODULE
{
    name = TacGenericConverter
    converterName = Greenhouse
    conversionRate = 4
    inputResources = Water, 0.25, CarbonDioxide, 1, Waste, 0.25,
    outputResources = Food, 1, false, Oxygen, 0.9, true
}

Greenhouse is over powered and breaks a few rules (such as having "no loss" factored in), would need to be resized/remasses for RO and have loss factored in like: (or something like this)

inputResources = Water, 0.25, CarbonDioxide, 1, Waste, 1,

outputResources = Food, 0.9, false, Oxygen, 0.9, true

honestly i would need to check these numbers (anyone here a biologist or similar profession that could supply more realistic values? Also realistic "growth/conversion" rates?? )

But with loss factored in it would NEVER become self sustaining, merely time extending between "resupply runs"

This would complete the needed parts/additions to make TAC workable in RO.

A simple matter of finishing up mass/volume/density of resources and wastes and RO resizing/remassing any parts that would need it

Its a bit indepth, but once all the right numbers are plugged in the cfg's this should give a close approximation of bring life support resources and dealing with by-products, with the bonus of being able to process and make potable water from water extracted from bodies that have KSPI liquid water (ice, liquid, vapor or what ever form its in)

this seems to be a very good converter for volume to weight (and various other conversions) http://www.aqua-calc.com/

This said we can average the masses to: all numbers checked via Wikipedia, calculator link above, or similar sources

* 1 human needs/uses 1.5kg of food per day Increased to 3x MRE meals in mass per day 3,600 Calories (3,600 kcal or 15,000 kJ) (Freeze dried rations would take approximately 1/2 the mass/volume of MRE's @ same calories)

* 1 human needs/uses 2kg of water per day

* 1 human needs/uses 13.2Kg of Oxygen (air) per day

* 1 human produces 0.9kg of CO2 per day

* 1 human produces 0.12kg of "waste" per day (this is the low average amount produced per day, high average was 0.6kg, but with its water volume extracted it should be a roughly correct average)

* 1 human produces 0.5kg of "waste water" per day

That should do for masses, now it would be to find volume per 1kg in liters of each:

* Water and waste water would be 1kg = 1 liter

* Air mass of 1kg of air in liters is 0.38kg per 1 liter @ 300bar (with 1 liter tank holding 300 liters under pressure) so: 1kg air @ 300bar = 2.63157 liters this assumes same pressure as a SCUBA tank

* The volume of CO2 would be 1kg = 500 liters, at surface pressure...so 1kg @ 300bar = 1.67 liters this assumes same pressure as a SCUBA tank (with 1 liter tank holding 300 liters under pressure)

* Waste mass in kg per liter of sewage sludge (solid waste) is: 0.72kg per 1 liter or 1kg = 1.38888 liters

* Food, US army manual states the weight of each case is approximately 15 lbs and it measures approximately 1.02 cubic feet volume > 6.80389kg & 28.8832 liters (0.0288832 cubic meters) or 1kg = 4.2451009 liters in metric.

(Freeze dried, vacuum packed rations would take approximately 1/2 the mass/volume of MRE's @ same calorie amount with a human needing 0.75kg per day and 1kg = 2.1225504 liters, will use for saving mass/volume)

With that done, its just to correct the TACLifeSupport.cfg to reflect these mass numbers and update input/output numbers for purifiers/cleaners/extractors so they still keep up with their target crew levels (1 crew, 3 crew and 12 crew... if I recall correctly)

I am abit confused on volume (but did find the correct info of liters per kg for everything), i assume this would be for the to be created TACrealfuels.cfg??

jrandoms pods_EnergyUsage.cfg numbers seem correct and handles power supply/use correctly, so it needs no alterations

@Nathan: does this correctly conform to your wishing resources to be converted/measured in liters? If not what did i do wrong, i will correct it in short order if need be.

Is this a roughly acceptable "standard" to be used in RO TAC life support? if so the files can be created/edited in short order and become the standard RO life support figures

EDIT It seems jrandoms "pods_EnergyUsage.cfg" could be improved to effect all crewed components by editing: (example uses 1 crew capacity) CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG PLZ

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[1]]:Final
{
    @MODULE[ModuleCommand]
    {
        !RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]{}
        RESOURCE
        {
            name = ElectricCharge
            rate = 0.2666666 // 0.1 for base systems, 0.1666666 for operation per kerbal
        }
    }

    @RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
    {
        @amount = 64320 // 24000 base + 12h charge (including life support)
        @maxAmount = 64320
    }
}

can be replaced with (adding a command module to them and hopefully applying resources and wastes storage capacities aswell as power supply levels & power usage rates)

@PART[*]:HAS[#CrewCapacity[1]]:FINAL
{
    %MODULE[ModuleCommand]
    {
        !RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]{}
        RESOURCE
        {
            name = ElectricCharge
            rate = 0.2666666 // 0.1 for base systems, 0.1666666 for operation per kerbal
        }
    }

    @RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
    {
        @amount = 64320 // 24000 base + 12h charge (including life support)
        @maxAmount = 64320
    }
}

Edited April 26, 2014 by Guest

[Nemrav]

new to realism overhaul, but, I use the planet factory config and what's wierd is that when I get the ordinary planets to show the new textures and height maps + orbits etc. to work then the planet factory planets revert to their ordinary state, yet when I don't have the ordinary planets working then the planet factory ones do get their changes.

COULD SOMEONE PLZ HELP ??? installation order ???

or should I copy paste, this message in the RSS thread ?

edit : nvm, think I can fix it....

edit 2 : fixed !

Edited April 26, 2014 by Nemrav

[Guest]

i think i'm getting close to getting TAC RO attempt correct, seems user "CoolBeer" has managed to convert TAC into using liters, I am waiting on a reply from him on this. But i have all the numbers worked out (i believe anyways)

Sadly i will need to confer with someone that understands MM patches better than i do, i dont trust myself to do this part unassisted. Nor do i understand how i would create a real fuels setting for TAC items. Anyone who is willing to walk me through this or assist with it.... i would be grateful indeed for the help.

small note on jrandoms pods_EnergyUsage.cfg, making it effect all crewed components, not just components with a command module would be great to effect habitat cabins, science labs, airlocks, ect. this would be great to have someones opinion on also

[ThorBeorn]

Will jrandoms pods_EnergyUsage.cfg affect ALL parts in the Gamedata folder with MODULE[ModuleCommand], i.e. all pods, capsules, probes, cockpits etc?

EDIT: Sry didn't read your post Aazard. Nevermind. My thought initially was that probes vary in size and function with RPL. Realistically they should therefore consume different amounts of electric charge.

Regarding crewed componets. If/when this cgf is released it will overwrite all of the other RO configs adressing energy usage right?

This means I should not spend time changing electric charge rates in the FusTek RO cfg I'm working on I guess...

Edited April 27, 2014 by ThorBeorn

[The Destroyer]

Hm. I tried installing the mod to a new copy of KSP, using almost all the recommended mods and stuff. And the realism patches. But when I went to launch the Soyuz, welll... this happened. Also, in the VAB, The gemini capsules make a seperation effect.

[RaccoonTOF]

Yup, I've been having issues with odd activations of second and third stage engines at launch too for some reason. I've lately been creating action groups for each stage, set to toggle all engines on that stage. This way, right after launch I can quickly shut down any random stages that got triggered by the launch too. Would be nice to know what exactly is causing this, although it appears to be independent of RO/RSS (the Taurus HCV is having the same issues with spontaneous ignition of the escape system at launch as well, but again it doesn't affect everyone...no concrete commonality determined yet).

@Aazard: A fully closed system with no venting SHOULD be a "no-loss" system actually. The only actual "loss" would be heat, which would be replaced by the "energy generation" in theory. Check out "Biosphere 2" for a real-life attempt at constructing a fully enclosed complete ecosystem covering most of the environments found here on Earth. Some technical issues with the first sealed experiment (which lasted 2 years), and management issues during the second, caused it to not be a complete success nor a completely "closed" environment (CO2 seepage from the outside and an imbalance in soil bacteria being the primary issues preventing success in the first case). However, it was a very good "proof of concept", and further research at the facility since then at various times has shown that both of those issues are easily solvable. Also, a more limited ecosystem (that wasn't trying to model all environments from arid deserts to rainforests to ocean including coral reefs to open grasslands - all simultaneously in the same structure) could potentially be a lot easier to manage in a closed-cycle aside from power input/heat radiation.

[Guest]

@ThorBeorn: "IF" I can manage to get it setup, "yes", note this would give an airlock life support power requirements and resources to keep it "habitable". (plus seeing how fustek treats modules by "function", separately editing in extra life support storage to a few modules, plus "clearing" units to one of them should also be possible, with a "FustekTAC.cfg" giving 2 or 3 of the "for show" modules a real use, you/i could do the same for KAS storage in its warehouse module)

i'm not the best with MM patches (just learning) but i know the numbers for whats needed, if i can get some assistance altering the 2 files (and perhaps make a real fuels file also) TAC in RO fixed RSS would reflect TAC resources correctly, ... the pod energy usage as the file currently exists seems very good, its getting these to apply to ALL crewed components, not just the ones with command modules (by instead using the command "@PART[*]:HAS[#CrewCapacity[*crew number*]]:FINAL"? and imputing the correct TACLS/power info), that i dont 100% understand how to make happen, but i have yet to test the above mentoned method

If you could lend me a little know how, i think the edits are fairly simple and would be greatly appreciated

...i also need to understand how user "CoolBeer" got tac to work with liters as units

But is sounds simple enough, i just lack the MM ability to trust myself with it.. if it works correctly it should be very realistic with the possibility to include KSPI water into TAC water converters and a greenhouse, it would be nice to include a realistic fuel cell aswell. everything already exists so it would only be edits to existing settings

@ RaccoonTOF: I would like to hear your input on the greenhouse idea, i would like to make the TAC system more realistic, so if you can give me some decent numbers; like power rate to account for lighting and heating to grow required "food" needed for 1 person per day and a reasonable size & mass for such a greenhouse unit empty, minus power plant/water works/soil (that would be accounted for by other TAC parts/resources) . I would be open to it, i just dont want to see a OP greenhouse in a realistic TAC, growing food for a self sustaining 3 man moon (or mars!) base should be a semi-feat

Edited April 27, 2014 by Guest

[RaccoonTOF]

Oh it is definitely quite a feat, to do so in a fully-closed self-sustaining system, lol. The above mentioned Biosphere 2 occupied just over 3 acres of "ground" space, and enclosed over 7 million cubic feet of space, plus the huge underground diaphragms that were used to automatically maintain constant interior pressure even during heating/cooling cycles. Again, this can definitely be made smaller with a more limited (but still self-sustainable) ecosystem, but the scale for a real "greenhouse" that had absolutely no needs for any exterior input aside from a power source are beyond what could really be carried "pre-assembled" by anything you would even consider launching as a "part". It would be more like making many, many launches and assembling the "greenhouse station" - or multiple trips to construct it on-site for a ground base. Nothing with that sort of capability should be considered a "ship" at all - it really is a "mobile space station" by that point...

[EDIT: This is not to say that a hydroponics lab purely for FOOD production, to lower the resupply requirements drastically is not possible as a "part" - though it would still be a fairly large part. But it would not be a fully-closed-loop system by any stretch, and would still require ongoing supply - just much less frequently than shipping up pre-made food supplies would. No idea on what would be accurate numbers for this, as there is nothing currently equivalent in real life for supplying 100% of ongoing food requirements in space. To give an idea from an agricultural perspective though - the average person on Earth requires roughly 1,000 square feet of good agricultural land to meet their yearly nutritional requirements, while to meet the actual consumption in the US we average 1.2 acres per individual. That latter figure takes into account all cultivated land used for anything at all related to food production though - and a large portion of that is for the production of corn syrup in soda, hardly a requirement. Hydroponics of course can be smaller systems - but require a good water reserve (even though only a portion of it actually gets "used", it needs a large reservoir that cycles) and would still require resupply of the nutrients added to that water supply on a semi-regular basis.]

Edited April 27, 2014 by RaccoonTOF

[Guest]

Oh it is definitely quite a feat, to do so in a fully-closed self-sustaining system, lol. The above mentioned Biosphere 2 occupied just over 3 acres of "ground" space, and enclosed over 7 million cubic feet of space, plus the huge underground diaphragms that were used to automatically maintain constant interior pressure even during heating/cooling cycles. Again, this can definitely be made smaller with a more limited (but still self-sustainable) ecosystem, but the scale for a real "greenhouse" that had absolutely no needs for any exterior input aside from a power source are beyond what could really be carried "pre-assembled" by anything you would even consider launching as a "part". It would be more like making many, many launches and assembling the "greenhouse station" - or multiple trips to construct it on-site for a ground base. Nothing with that sort of capability should be considered a "ship" at all - it really is a "mobile space station" by that point...

[EDIT: This is not to say that a hydroponics lab purely for FOOD production, to lower the resupply requirements drastically is not possible as a "part" - though it would still be a fairly large part. But it would not be a fully-closed-loop system by any stretch, and would still require ongoing supply - just much less frequently than shipping up pre-made food supplies would. No idea on what would be accurate numbers for this, as there is nothing currently equivalent in real life for supplying 100% of ongoing food requirements in space. To give an idea from an agricultural perspective though - the average person on Earth requires roughly 1,000 square feet of good agricultural land to meet their yearly nutritional requirements, while to meet the actual consumption in the US we average 1.2 acres per individual. That latter figure takes into account all cultivated land used for anything at all related to food production though - and a large portion of that is for the production of corn syrup in soda, hardly a requirement. Hydroponics of course can be smaller systems - but require a good water reserve (even though only a portion of it actually gets "used", it needs a large reservoir that cycles) and would still require resupply of the nutrients added to that water supply on a semi-regular basis.]

I will work on setting up basics, if anyone cares to lend a hand, then worry about anything past working with standard TAC parts, a working fuel cell and adding the KSPI water to TAC water conversion ability (as thats all existing parts already and i have an example of code of the water conversion)

once that works, things like a greenhouse could be looked over and added at a later date

If you are familiar with MM patching/TAC editing let me know

Edited April 27, 2014 by Guest

[RaccoonTOF]

I have pretty extensive MM patching/general cfg editing experience (I tweak a LOT of stuff for personal use to make it more "real" already) but right now my focus is on creating realistic values/patches to parts for a full progression of the SLS, including all of the "options" which have been considered for it. If you have not gotten something together by the time I get that all finished though, I'll be happy to help out then too (and of course always happy to answer what questions I can as I peruse the forums in general ).

[ThorBeorn]

@Aazard: I'd sure like to help out but, this FusTek patch I'm doing is the first MM patch I ever make. All I've done to this point is editing existing numbers in existing cfgs. So, I'm a total beginner. And I've never done any programming or so. Yeah, and I haven't gotten around to starting using TAC (never tried life support mods, will soon probably though) yet either. I'll gladly look into adding KAS support for the warehouse part. I want to get this FusTek rescale done first though.

Regarding electric charge and electric charge drain. I'll then continue adding "RO style" batteries and energy usage for FusTek in my patch and then, when/if the new energypatch comes out I'll make changes if they're incompatible.

I do support the idea of one simple config (to rule them all ey?) that works for all crewed modules. But I guess it's up to the Realism Overhaul original authors to decide.

[Hodo]

So I have a quick question.

Is it possible with the Real Earth Solar System mod in the RO to place the old island base and old KSC next to the Kennedy Space Center?

[Guest]

I have pretty extensive MM patching/general cfg editing experience (I tweak a LOT of stuff for personal use to make it more "real" already) but right now my focus is on creating realistic values/patches to parts for a full progression of the SLS, including all of the "options" which have been considered for it. If you have not gotten something together by the time I get that all finished though, I'll be happy to help out then too (and of course always happy to answer what questions I can as I peruse the forums in general ).

If you do have extensive MM patching/general cfg editing experience, i would love to have a hand with this... i need my code looked over mostly and help figuring out how get liters used as "coolbeer" did. like i said its, 2 existing cfg's to edit and a realfuel setting for tac stuff...how hard can that be with 95% of the code written

[Oksbad]

So I'm running this mod with ECLSS which does not simulate the electrical requirements of life support. What would be a good energy drain per kerbal that I can put in as a temporary bandaid until either ECLSS 2.0 comes out or TAC finishes their overhaul?

[Guest]

@Oksbad

Tac has energy usage currently with jrandoms RO files (which i'm trying to beef up as i posted about) i can list a one man pod as example for you, or link you to the full file if you want to switch to TAC (TAC is more complete IMHO and seems to have more users with faster releases and fixes)

here is a 1 man pod/cockpits power usage and supply: (from file before i have made any edits, his RO fix is very workable, but the resource masses and usage seemed abit off, i hope to fix that and convert it to liters)

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[1]]:Final
{
    @MODULE[ModuleCommand]
    {
        !RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]{}
        RESOURCE
        {
            name = ElectricCharge
            rate = 0.2666666 // 0.1 for base systems, 0.1666666 for operation per kerbal
        }
    }

    @RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
    {
        @amount = 64320 // 24000 base + 12h charge (including life support)
        @maxAmount = 64320
    }
}

This power usage and supply seems very realistic by RO standards (its pretty solid work by jrandoms on this part of his fix) this requires tac to have these settings altered from ingame menu:

Base Electricity Consumption Rate = 43200

Electricity Consumption Rate = 14400

EVA Electricity Consumption Rate = 4320

ECLSS has its charms, but from using both, TAC just has alot of an edge on it and it includes food, water, waste and waste water, not just oxygen and CO2. that said it would be nice to borrow the method ECLSS uses on vessel tracking (its 1 truly impressive feature)

You also say "... or TAC finishes their overhaul?" my attempt to alter TAC to be more RO fitting is in no way official (on behalf of TAC or RO) although i think if it gets finished and works as hoped it should settle TAC RO needs for foreseeable future and replace all other life support mods as the RO life support "standard" (well i'd like that atleast lol). IMHO more than one life support mod is just a super issue for confusion or "but i use this mod pack that supports xx life support mod" issues, if all mods used in RO'ed RSS rely on TAC to handle life support (either natively or via their RO fix) it would clear up that issue atleast

Edited April 28, 2014 by Guest

[ThorBeorn]

Hi again.

I have now redone the RO cfg for the FusTek Station Parts Expansion mod by sumghai. I wanted to share it here and ask for feedback and ideas - how things can be written more effciently, but mostly what more to do with these parts. It's still a WIP and not intended to be a part of RO just yet. It is also my first MM config, so please keep that in mind.

There is also a list of things I'd like to discuss:

1. Lights electric consumption: I'm thinking of adding a wildcard to adress all parts with "ModuleLight" and change "resourceAmount" for all parts. Any suggestions of how many watts they should be? They are a bit low now I think.

2. General consumption rate of ElectricCharge for all habitable/"active" parts. I was thinking a real space station needs power for computers, experiments, heating, cooling, air circulation etc. Let's make solar panels more vital!

3. I followed NathanKells example a few pages back and set maxTemp in all parts to 1300 degrees. This should make for explodey de-orbits. Any opinions? Go even lower?

4. I mostly followed the previous RO config by redde when it comes to mass. Tall parts weigh 14 tonnes, short parts weigh 6 tonnes, some exceptions are made with the "unique" parts. Opinions?

5. ElectricCharge: I found some numbers on ESA's ATV and added something similar to the Resupply Module. Other than that I gave most parts (that could be considered "active") 5kWh of batteries. This should probably be altered. What parts should have batteries and of what capacity?

6. Deleted all reaction wheels except for Resupply module. SAS modules are untouched so far though. This can be reconfigured to "weak" RO reaction wheels if you want.

7. Deleted all solid fuel - thinking of adding Real Fuels support to some parts if I can mangage that.

8. When it comes to breakingForce and breakingTorque I just followed Nathans example and went with 1280 for all parts. I guess KJR multiplies this also. Not that big of a deal right?

I'm happy to recieve any other suggestions and ideas, so keep them coming!

ps. I'm aware that the parts with slanted ends overlap and flicker a bit when connected to the top and bottom with other parts. This must be a fault in the original mod since I've just upscaled everything by a factor of 1.76. top and bottom attach nodes need to be adusted outwards probably. I will try to fix this later.

Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xy3p4jnv3iwev7o/Fustek_PartsWIP.cfg

Edited April 28, 2014 by ThorBeorn

[Guest]

Hi again.

I have now redone the RO cfg for the FusTek Station Parts Expansion mod by sumghai. I wanted to share it here and ask for feedback and ideas - how things can be written more effciently, but mostly what more to do with these parts. It's still a WIP and not intended to be a part of RO just yet. It is also my first MM config, so please keep that in mind.

There is also a list of things I'd like to discuss:

1. Lights electric consumption: I'm thinking of adding on single wildcard to adress all parts with "ModuleLight" and change "resourceAmount" for all parts. Any suggestions of how many watts they should be? They are a bit low now I think.

2. General consumption rate of ElectricCharge for all habitable/"active" parts. I was thinking a real space station needs power for computers, experiments, heating, cooling, air circulation etc. Let's make solar panels more vital!

3. I followed NathanKells example a few pages back and set maxTemp in all parts to 1300 degrees. This should make for explodey re-entries. Any opinions?

4. I mostly followed the previous RO config by redde when it comes to mass. Tall parts weigh 14 tonnes, short parts weigh 6 tonnes, some exceptions are made with the "unique" parts. Opinions?

5. ElectricCharge: I found some numbers on ESA's ATV and added something similar to the Resupply Module. Other than that I gave most parts (that could be considered "active") 5kWh of batteries. This should probably be altered. What parts should have batteries and of what capacity?

6. Deleted all reaction wheels except for Resupply module. SAS modules are untouched so far though. This can be reconfigured to "weak" RO reaction wheels if you want.

7. Deleted all solid fuel - thinking of adding Real Fuels support to some parts if I can mangage that.

8. When it comes to breakingForce and breakingTorque I just followed Nathans example and went with 1280 for all parts. I guess KJR multiplies this also. Not that big of a deal right?

I'm happy to recieve any other suggestions and ideas, so keep them coming!

ps. I'm aware that the parts with slanted ends overlap and flicker a bit. This must be a fault in the original mod since I've just upscaled everything by a factor of 1.76. top and bottom attach nodes need to be adusted outwards probably. I will try to fix this later.

Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xy3p4jnv3iwev7o/Fustek_PartsWIP.cfg

Very Nice ThorBeorn!

I like what you have done with this, from reading it, now i will have to test this out.

I better get my butt in gear and get a test version of my idea on TAC RO fixes out and make sure i dont conflict with anything you have done. If you dont mind PM'ing back and forth abit i have some ideas i've tested with FusTek that worked well and might be interesting to you... i could use a hand with 2 or 3 part resized (which you seem to have a handle on) and would like to confer with you, if you are game for it

I think FusTek should become the "standard" of ISS like space station parts to be used in RSS so i'm really glad to see your work on it

I finally found the liters conversions "coolbeer" made (i had lost bookmark somehow)... I am slightly daft to the setting he is using until i read the files over HERE

I think with coolbeer's work and jrandoms work now on my personal system to edit i will be able to complete this in short order, although i will still have it looked over by someone with better MM skills than mine 1st before making any releases

Edited April 28, 2014 by Guest

[Oksbad]

@Oksbad

Tac has energy usage currently with jrandoms RO files (which i'm trying to beef up as i posted about) i can list a one man pod as example for you, or link you to the full file if you want to switch to TAC (TAC is more complete IMHO and seems to have more users with faster releases and fixes)

here is a 1 man pod/cockpits power usage and supply: (from file before i have made any edits, his RO fix is very workable, but the resource masses and usage seemed abit off, i hope to fix that and convert it to liters)

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[1]]:Final
{
    @MODULE[ModuleCommand]
    {
        !RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]{}
        RESOURCE
        {
            name = ElectricCharge
            rate = 0.2666666 // 0.1 for base systems, 0.1666666 for operation per kerbal
        }
    }

    @RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
    {
        @amount = 64320 // 24000 base + 12h charge (including life support)
        @maxAmount = 64320
    }
}

This power usage and supply seems very realistic by RO standards (its pretty solid work by jrandoms on this part of his fix) this requires tac to have these settings altered from ingame menu:

Base Electricity Consumption Rate = 43200

Electricity Consumption Rate = 14400

EVA Electricity Consumption Rate = 4320

ECLSS has its charms, but from using both, TAC just has alot of an edge on it and it includes food, water, waste and waste water, not just oxygen and CO2. that said it would be nice to borrow the method ECLSS uses on vessel tracking (its 1 truly impressive feature)

You also say "... or TAC finishes their overhaul?" my attempt to alter TAC to be more RO fitting is in no way official (on behalf of TAC or RO) although i think if it gets finished and works as hoped it should settle TAC RO needs for foreseeable future and replace all other life support mods as the RO life support "standard" (well i'd like that atleast lol). IMHO more than one life support mod is just a super issue for confusion or "but i use this mod pack that supports xx life support mod" issues, if all mods used in RO'ed RSS rely on TAC to handle life support (either natively or via their RO fix) it would clear up that issue atleast

Sounds good. I've been bouncing back and forth for some time now. Can you link me to the RO files for TAC?

[RaccoonTOF]

@Aazard - the conversion of TAC to use liters isn't a trivial matter, so it's not really something I want to take on myself to do the MM configs for prior to finishing the SLS stuff I'm working on. I'll be happy to do the configs to match your numbers (or whatever gets decided by consensus is "realistic"), but not till after the current configs I'm working on are finished.

@Thor - Will pop your config into my test install and take a look the next time I restart to test my own configs here. Couple things you mentioned - the issues you are having with the "adapter" styled parts/end rings is because they are designed to overlap just slightly in the original models. Unfortunately, when the original overlap gets scaled up, they end up overlapping too much in the scaled versions. The same issues are often true of surface attach nodes when rescaling stock parts as well - the stock attach points are meant to have parts "sink in" a little bit, but when rescaling something like a 1.25m part to 5m that "slight" bit that they sink in on the original gets multiplied in the rescale too, to the point that sometimes the attached parts vanish entirely inside the rescaled part! Use the direct multiplied values to get you close, and then you just have to do the fine tweaking by hand (which is a large part of what is eating my time in getting the SLS stuff done - having to reload KSP every time I make a set of changes to re-test them. Unlike with base configs for standard parts, where you can just reload the parts while the game is running, MM configs require a complete game restart to take effect).

And finally, a couple more teaser pics, working out the details for an ATV-derived service module for Orion. I think this mockup actually turned out pretty cool looking, and I may end up doing a welded-part version of it as an optional file for people too (it was done this way so that I knew what size/volumes to use for the rescaled ESA pack ATV part for accurate RealFuels usage, but I kinda like the internal tankage with outer shell ).

All assembled for launch -

What hides beneath?

The actual concept for the RL service module can be seen here:

[Guest]

@ RaccoonTOF: that would be awesome.. look below to see my basic wip numbers (in code boxes) in MM format, lett me know if you see me making an error... i am not exactly skilled with MM as of yet... but no rush, i dont want to interfere with your personal MM patch work

the conversion of TAC to use liters is done already by coolbeers HERE

I will try to put something together tonight using liters. for your viewing here is how coolbeer converted into liters with my numbers... if i am correct in making density equal to mass of 1 liter: i need to make sure this works with my numbers for mass/volume and consumption/production added to the other files i believe "density" would

be like so: numbers are good, but i am unsure if i am entering them correctly in TAC, if anyone knows if i'm on track or if i'm completely misunderstanding what i'm trying to do (please let me know)

* Water and waste water 1kg = 1 liter, 1 human needs 2kg (2 liters) water per day and makes 0.5kg (0.5 liters) waste water per day

* Air 1kg @ 300bar = 2.63157 liters this assumes same pressure as a SCUBA tank, 1 human needs 13.2kg @ 1bar (or 0.115789 liters @ 300bar) per day

* CO2 1kg @ 300bar = 1.67 liters this assumes same pressure as a SCUBA tank, 1 human makes 0.9 @ 1bar per day (or 0.00501 liters @ 300bar)

* Waste 1kg = 1.38888 liters (sewage sludge/solid waste), 1 human makes 0.12kg (0.1666656 liters), once majority of water is extracted, per day

* Food 1kg = 2.1225504 liters (volume used in storage), 1 human needs 0.75 per day (1.5919128 liters)

Am I correct in making density the volume in liters of 1kg, as below??....OR should it be the mass in kg of 1 liter??

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
   name = Food
   density = 0.0021225504
   flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
   transfer = PUMP
   isTweakable = true
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = Oxygen
  density = 0.0000087719
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = Water
  density = 0.001
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
   name = CarbonDioxide
   density = 0.000005566667
   flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
   transfer = PUMP
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
   name = Waste
   density = 0.00138888
   flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
   transfer = PUMP
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
   name = WasteWater
   density = 0.001
   flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
   transfer = PUMP
}

Then it would be an issue of setting consumption/production numbers in global settings and altering the amount held by containers/life support modules: (numbers for 1 man pod, standard 24hr supply)

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Food
		amount = 1.5919128
		maxAmount = 1.5919128
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Water
		amount = 2
		maxAmount = 2
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Oxygen
		amount = 0.115789
		maxAmount = 0.115789
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = CarbonDioxide
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 0.00501
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Waste
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 0.1666656
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = WasteWater
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 0.5
	}

Global settings of

FoodConsumptionRate = 1.5919128

WaterConsumptionRate = 2

OxygenConsumptionRate = 0.115789

CO2ProductionRate = 0.00501

WasteProductionRate = 0.1666656

WasteWaterProductionRate = 0.5

Base Electricity Consumption Rate = 43200

Electricity Consumption Rate = 14400

EVA Electricity Consumption Rate = 4320

Power supply/usage for crewed components to be handled by "pods_EnergyUsage.cfg" with stats set by number of max crew count, jrandoms numbers are solid so will remain unchanged

thoughts, comments, cries of outrage ( ) are all welcomed, i want this to be something the whole RO community can be happy with and as numbers would truly be in IRL, so best to say your part now so i can take all viewpoints into consideration

I see this as a community effort, i could never have gotten the coding info on my own, or had the inspirations, ideas and insights many others have already had and i borrowed. Seeing as no one was really focusing on this i figured i could attempt it, it was abit more work than i though. Getting the numbers and triple confirming them was oddly the easy part... its the darn MM files that are breaking my back (but not my will)

Edited April 28, 2014 by Guest

[RaccoonTOF]

@Aazard: Density is mass per volume, not volume per mass. In the case of RealFuels, it uses metric tons per liter (at standard temperature and pressure for gasses). STP is 0 degrees C @ 1 bar. The units in the tanks are measured in liters (that's the number you actually see in game when using RealFuels). Also, your rate of oxygen usage is WAY off. The actual average CONSUMPTION of oxygen per day is about 0.835 kg per day per person. This is the amount of oxygen actually removed from the air and converted into carbon dioxide (which is roughly 0.998 kg per day produced). The numbers you are using appear to be for total amount of air (not oxygen) processed, not the amount of oxygen in that air actually consumed/converted. Check the PMs I sent you earlier for more info as well .

@Thor: Breaking force and torque need to be scaled up as well, although I'm not sure on the exact numbers because I'm not sure exactly how much KJR also scales them based on node size. It was my understanding that KJR is no longer doing basic strengthening though unless you specifically re-add that feature in the config files, because of the stock joint strength based on node size changes. These parts seem to have less torque resistance than a procedural fuel tank of the same size though - not sure if that is because they are understrength, or if the procedural tanks are overstrength, but it causes some issues at launch time. You might try setting the node size to 5 instead of 4 for the main stack nodes and see if that helps (since they are 4.4m parts, 4 would be the correct rounded number...but it might help them stand up better at 5, as well as then having the same base node size for connection to the many real-life 5m rocket part duplicates).

Edited April 28, 2014 by RaccoonTOF