[1.8+] Real Fuels

[Raptor831]

Question: Can I define pressureFed = true in engine CONFIG{} nodes? If I can't, does setting that in ModuleEngineRF apply to each CONFIG{} node even if it has a ModuleEngineIgnitor{} node?

[NathanKell]

You can indeed define it in a CONFIG node, and if it is not defined in a CONFIG node, then whatever value was loaded last will still be the one used.

Basically, MEC works by forcing the ModuleEngines(whatever) module to reload itself based off the CONFIG node, so *anything* you can put in a MODULE ModuleEngines* node, you can put in a CONFIG node, and any settings that aren't in the CONFIG node will not be changed by PartModule.Load.

Note that there are a couple exceptions, for example if IspV/IspSL are specified they'll override the atmosphereCurve node (if that too is specified) and that ignitions uses that funky "0 is unlimited, negative is techlevel" stuff rather than how ignitions behaves in a regular MODULE node.

[Lexx Thai]

Nathan, if engine type changes to ModuleEnginesRF, engines removes from default Propulsion tab. Please, can you make some solution (or workaround at least) for this (issue?)? And second question/request: when we see some documentation for RealFuels?

[NathanKell]

Changelog:

v10.4.7

• Tellion: add NF Spacecraft and Construction tank configs.
  
• Un-break the cost of CONFIG upgrades (and a bunch of other settings).
  

Lexx Thai: I'm not sure what you mean about category changes; changing a MODULE's name won't change the category = line....certainly none of the engines RO changes from their old module to ModuleEnginesRF get changed.

Docs are in the third post and in the Readme, and Story Musgrave is currently working on making a fuller set of docs for the wiki (thanks! )

[Lexx Thai]

Ok, I try to explain. I made small RealPlume config via Felger's tutorial.

Little bit of config file:

	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
	{
		@name = ModuleEnginesRF
	}

	@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
	{
		%type = ModuleEnginesRF
		@CONFIG,*
		{
			%powerEffectName = Hypergolic-OMS-Red
		}
	}

But after this, part disappeared from default Propulsion Tab, and I found that engine in "Filter by smthng..." tabs. Problem was solved by changing ModuleEnginesRF to ModuleEnginesFX.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Lexx Thai

[dlrk]

Got a suggestion, or rather a problem and a suggestion.

As implemented, RF requires ullage for pressure-fed engines. This makes sense realistically, but causes complications when executing a programmed maneuveur node, especially when using RemoteTech delays, since you can't do an ullage burn automatically. Would it be possible to have an option in the CFG for 'no ullage with pressure fed engines'?

[NathanKell]

Lexx Thai: Do you have other mods that mess with categories, like Filter Extensions?

dlrk: that's best done with an MM patch:

@PART[*]:FINAL
{
	@MODULE,*:HAS[#name[ModuleEnginesRF],#pressureFed[?rue]]
	{
		%ullage = False
	}
	@MODULE,*:HAS[#name[ModuleEngineConfigs]]
	{
		@CONFIG,*:HAS[#pressureFed[?rue]]
		{
			%ullage = False
		}
	}
}

I think ? to start is safe, but if not, just duplicate the patch and use True once and true once (KSP is case sensitive).

[dlrk]

Ah, awesome! Thanks. I'll take it out if an alternate solution presents itself.

[Lexx Thai]

Lexx Thai: Do you have other mods that mess with categories, like Filter Extensions?

Just right now - yes.

[Astraph]

Well, that's strange, but I cannot find Hydrazine on fuels list. I've tried a clean reinstall of RealFuels - and Hydrazine is nowhere to be found, even if I use the autofill option on fuel tanks (if they're connected to any hydrazine-powered engine there's no autofill option; other fuels work fine)... Not a gamebreaking issue, but a frustrating one nonetheless... ^^'

[Tellion]

Well, that's strange, but I cannot find Hydrazine on fuels list. I've tried a clean reinstall of RealFuels - and Hydrazine is nowhere to be found, even if I use the autofill option on fuel tanks (if they're connected to any hydrazine-powered engine there's no autofill option; other fuels work fine)... Not a gamebreaking issue, but a frustrating one nonetheless... ^^'

Using the default tanktype, right? When you use a proc. parts servicemodule tank, you have access to hydrazine. But I agree, it may very well be a little oversight - after all most of the hydrazine derivatives are available with the default tanktype. I will send a quick PR, if we did not overlook anything it will get merged

Edit: Not a 100% sure abt the mass, I went with the same as all the other hypergolics, PR is out.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Tellion

[Astraph]

I'm using procedural fuel tank with default type, yeah. Thanks for taking notice

[Einkleinermensch]

Sorry for probably a dumb question, but now RF has the same functionality as EngineIgnitor, right? Settling down fuel before ignition and limited ignitions are included?

[NathanKell]

Correct.

[Svm420]

Well i seem to have found a major issue with using realfuels with tweakscale.

Using latest tweakscale, realfuels, MFI, and dev version of solverengines

Windows 7 64bit KSP 1.0.4 32 bit outside program files folder

Steps to reproduce.

1. create new craft in vab. I used mk1 inline cockpit

2. Place stock septron SRM on cockpit

3. Tweakscale to non default value

4. Save craft

5. Reload craft while still in editor

6. Select another septron SRM from build list and errors begin. Attach the septron to the cockpit. Try to open engine GUI. Mass log spam. Trying to launch results in more errors of a different nature.

Logs!

MM cache!

Hope that helps!

[Raptor831]

Well i seem to have found a major issue with using realfuels with tweakscale.

Using latest tweakscale, realfuels, MFI, and dev version of solverengines

Windows 7 64bit KSP 1.0.4 32 bit outside program files folder

Steps to reproduce.

1. create new craft in vab. I used mk1 inline cockpit

2. Place stock septron SRM on cockpit

3. Tweakscale to non default value

4. Save craft

5. Reload craft while still in editor

6. Select another septron SRM from build list and errors begin. Attach the septron to the cockpit. Try to open engine GUI. Mass log spam. Trying to launch results in more errors of a different nature.

Logs!

MM cache!

Hope that helps!

Are you using Stockalike? We found that the stock Separatron had a zero dry mass. Fixed in the repo, but I haven't pushed a release yet.

[Starwaster]

Repro steps.... cache file... logs?!??

WTH is going on here.... did I accidentally slip through the portal into the mirror universe?

Where is my evil opposite? What is he doing at this very moment???

[a proper rocket]

I have a few questions.

1. What is the significance of Liquidfuel? I understand all of the others (i.e. kerosene) but I don't see what Liquidfuel resembles in real life (if anything).

2. What is the difference between liquid oxygen and oxidizer? Wikipedia says that LOx is an oxidizer but in the mod, oxidizers significantly less dense.

3. In the FAQs early in this thread I noticed the word "preform" (i.e. "Liquid Hydrogen is the highest benchmark. Highest performance, but least dense"). Am I correct in assuming that good "performance" means a high TWR and density refers to mass per volume (as opposed to energy per volume)?

4. I cannot launch anything other than the liquid fuel and oxidizer mixture. Picture a setup:

-MK-1 Command Pod

-FL-T400 Fuel tank filled with kerolox (1000 Liters of Kerosene and 1000 Liters of LOx)

-LV-T30 Engine

I go to launch but I get a flame-out.

Cause: Oxodizer deprived.

I do notice that the Engine lacks the 0.14 charge it wants. My command pod however has 515 electrical charge.

I go back to VAB. Replace LOx with Oxidizer.

Go back to launch, still a flame-out, but this time I am "LiquidFuel deprived". I have the same electrical charge problem.

P.S. I know that my ratio for kerolox probably isn't ideal, but I have no idea what I'm doing. Rocket Science is hard.

[NathanKell]

Yup, Svm420, you're awesome!

1. No engine configured for RF will use it, but engines that are unconfigured will still use it.

2. LOX is a good oxidizer. "Oxidizer", like "LiquidFuel", is a fantasy resource. Who knows what it is or what its properties are.

3. It means high Isp. Hydrolox engines generally have lower TWR in fact, but they do have excellent Isp.

4. This sounds like you didn't install ang engine pack like the OP says you need.

Here's how it works. You download RF, and an engine pack (rigbt now, Realism Overhaul or Stockalike RF configs). you laod KSP, place a tank, place an engine under it, then right-click the tank and tell it to autofill. Or you can open the GUI (show GUI in the menu) and edit tanks manually. You can also make the GUI appear by going to Action Group Editor mode and selectng the tank.

In other news:

Changelog:

v10.4.9

• Hotfix for the hotfix.
  
• Don't load/save ullage sim data in editor.
  
• NOTE: You may have to detach and reattach your engines in saved craft. Also, action groups involving engines will need to be remade.
  

[Astraph]

What about the hydrazine bug? I'll try the updated version as soon as I return home, but it'd calm me down to know beforehand

[Tellion]

It is intended, Hydrazine requires a highly pressurized tank (servicemodule, fuselage) to be stored. I did not know either

[dlrk]

KSP is failing to find the configs for some engines, either giving me a black screen on the right-click config menu or a default confing, and I'm getting this in the log

*RFMEC* ERROR Can't find configuration LqdHydrogen+LqdOxygen, falling back to first tech-available config.

The right CFG is there, so I'm not sure what the problem is. Could it be "FOR[RealFuels_StockEngines] " and it not finding the stockengines part of that?

- - - Updated - - -

seems to be some sort of craft save problem

- - - Updated - - -

Figured it out, for anyone else who encounters it, remove the affected, save, close KSP and reload. Think it's caused by updating configs

Wrong, nope. The save gets messed up after closing and reopening KSP.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, the craft file gets messed up so that it loses the configs after saving and reloading

TWEAKSCALE'S FAULT

Edited July 22, 2015 by dlrk

[NecroBones]

This got posted on the Fuel Tanks Plus thread:

Does this work with Real Fuels any more? I've got a weird problem whereby the tanks will be OK to fill up with the real fuels propellant, however the tanks then automatically fill up with stock LF + Ox when I change scene. Is there any way around this?

I forgot about the RF configs over here. FTP was recently updated to consolidate the tanks into tweakables. So the current RF config probably doesn't work with the new part ID names.

Is RF capable of distinguishing between mesh-switched tanks via Interstellar or Firespitter switcher modules? If not, the different tank colors might all have to be treated the same now.

[Requia]

I've got no emissive animations with the latest update (via CKAN). Probably user error since nobody else had said anything yet but I'm not sure how to fix it?

[NathanKell]

Requia: KW Rocketry installed?

Necrobones; Alas RF does not handle mesh switching, so yeah they'd all need to be handled the same at the moment.