RoverDude

@Beowulf, we can simply agree to disagree as we're arguing two very different things. In any case, the community will get precisely what it deserves, one way or the other. And it will likely be neither what they expect, nor what they wanted. But the proverbial toothpaste is out of the tube now, so we just get to see what kind of a mess the kids make of it. One final bit of food for thought:

Toss up a link and I can give it a whirl!

He was missing a part. You can either KAS a supply crate, use a supply drone, or drive a maintenance pod. I do a whole video on it on the second post of the MKS thread

@Chyort - I read something different in "And to be honest, replicating all the changes I made for kspil to compatible with kspi does not sound very appealing to me." - bearing in mind we were pretty much in sync (the only out of sync thing at the moment is Wave's version of CRP which is the older ORS version not the newer ORSX version). @Wave - can you please clarify in black and white as there seems to be confusion. (And from my standpoint I am 100% fine either way, but it does affect what I work on next - either stronger integration with KSPI-L, or new dev).

Done on purpose, it's how Spare Parts work. And why we give a bunch of EVA transfer options for it Basically you still have to visit your station every few years. That may change but it would not be through modification of part properties, it would be through other mechanics.

I'm trying to keep dependencies low to be honest, but encourage players to get creative

You still need the adaption, because you need some way to get ore still It just got a LOT easier. And for MKS/OKS users, there will be out of the box support for EL for a more integrated experience, including some part adjustments and new models (more in the MKS/OKS style).

Actually, more exampled than you realize. I'm aware of other modders who are either taking a break or drawing down because of this nonsense. Not going to argue legalities - they are what they are. I'm raising the issue of common courtesy, which is not nearly as black and white. And I would call that rude. If you are considering a fork of an active project, especially one that adds no material value that could be re-merged into trunk, you start with communication. To not do so is, again, technically legal, but a breach of the social contract. And if that becomes the norm, then you will find yourself with a lot fewer modders, or you will push us into an environment with defensive licensing. Again, users lose. See above. We're discussing two very different things. The first, the legal basis, we all get. There is not a single person here arguing that, so you are (continuing) to preach to a wall. What is up for debate, however, is the moral aspect. Just because we CAN does not mean we SHOULD, and people should actually, you know, have communication and respect for wishes even if they are not explicitly written in stone. Just because I *CAN* run my chain saw at 6am on Sunday does not mean I SHOULD. So the question really is what kind of community we want. You can't legally enforce courtesy or niceness. No license in the world covers that. Nor should it. So either we decide, as a group, that politeness is good, or we decided instead that everyone has to engage in defensive licensing (at least, till people give up and move on). Again, this horse has been beaten to a pulp and turned into gluesticks ages ago, and the damage has been done. The only question is how much more damage the community will do to itself until it realizes it's going against it's own self interest.

Oh, there's no legal or financial obligation to support mod authors. But again, there's a far cry from pushing to the precise legal boundary of the law, and just plain old good manners. I will go back to Majiir's example of a noise ordinance. I could (legally) blast polka non-stop at precisely the maximum decibel level allowed by law at my home from 6am to 10pm every night. Is it legal? Sure! Is it a good idea? Is it neighborly? Well, not really. The difference here is that if we collectively decide it is ok to play polka sixteen hours a day, then eventually people are going to move away to greener pastures. Again, not here to change a world view. That will never change. Nor is there any argument on what the legal rights are per a license. But as I said before, this is why we can't have nice things. The modder is not going to be the one to lose - they just go onto another game or hobby (and if they are particularly maligned, will probably lock their license down before they leave). The users are pretty much the only losing party in this equation. Even if things work out in a stellar way and not a single support request goes into the megathread, the damage has been done. We are showing, that as a community, we cannot have a gentlemen's agreement where a mod is open enough to allow for enhancement and extension in a way agreeable and endorsed by the modder (i.e. I've had at least three MKS forks, and whole heartedly support them all, and generally pull in features if they are good). Instead, we are showing (as a community) that defensive licensing is appropriate. Which will mean that when a modder departs (probably out of frustration), that bit of goodness is locked away forever until someone can do a clean room rebuild - and all users are out as a result. So yes, I don't debate in any way the legality. I debate instead whether this practice is going to enhance or diminish the community, and ultimately if we look back a year from now, if we will all collectively say 'yeah, that was worth it', or instead lament because this was when it all started to go wrong, and nobody bothered to try and stop it.

Awesome, that's pretty much the info I needed Let me know when the dust settles then (trust me, I appreciate what it means to be on side bits and other projects) and we can sync up and see about getting KSPI-L and the USI mods on the same page. Saves me a ton of work, and I can just send people here. Alternatively, I can see what I can do about a pull request for you for resource sync, etc. - I assume your dev branch is the best one to go off of?

Thanks - feedback is good - Let me tweak mine to be in line with NFT tanks, since we play in the same playground. - Which of the fusion ones? We have two different varieties. If it's the original fusion drives, their balance should be on par with the DT Vistas from KSPI (which were pretty much a game over for pre-warp). If you take a look at the Community Tech Tree, they will be all the way down at fusion drives. If the new torch drives, those are a different kettle of fish and should balance on par with KSPI's Alcubierre drive, and would be in a similar spot on the tech tree. But in both cases, balance is always an option - I'll tweak the nukes to remove the EC requirement

No reason why not, that's where I'm headed. Then if someone wants to do some re-arrangement on their own it's an MM file.

Just reviewed the tree again with the latest updates - this is looking lovely!

So some more general WIP musings. AMT is coming along nicely, though I want to make a more traditional excavator model at some point. Also looking at EL integration in the short term, as well as some bigger surprises on the MKS front

@v1per - sure, go for it. @UAL002 - Check out this thread here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/98409-Planning-Community-Tech-Tree

Oversight, log a github issue please

Yes, you will have to run fuel lines, no different than how you would deal with radial LFO tanks

For the bits I use, it appears to work but I would recommend getting the latest FireSpitter DLL (it is not an official release yet, so no version file).

Thanks Taniwha for being awesome

It's exceptionally difficult to pilot these with FAR on Kerbin. If someone ever makes alternate configs I'll happily take them, but yeah... I've been able to go slowly at low altitudes, but it's tough.

Stock aero or FAR/NEAR?

Hotfix on Dropbox in HOTFIX STUFF\SRVPACK_FIX_2014.11.03 (FYI the multi-pod one ship issue is a known one).

This is looking incredibly sweet! Awesome work!

@UAL002 - give it a few weeks - Testing an EL build from Taniwha that will allow me to finally do a nice, seamless EL integration into the USI mods, and you'll also have a warp drive around the same time Feel free to chime in on the USI thread if there are other bits you think would add to the mix.

I said almost none